UNH Recruits: 2012-2018

[C-H-C]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Josh has provided a rare glimpse into the actual terms and understandings involved in verbal commitments between recruits and Division I hockey programs - at least as it concerns UNH. One key takehome message is that whenever you read that a recruit is projected to enroll in a specific year, you need to take the date with a big grain of salt. At best, the "year" listed for a recruit is a target date subject to the player's development (on the ice and in the classroom) and the team's evolving needs.

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Josh,

I too appreciate your comments. Thanks for the insight. It is rare we actually here from people with experience.

Two items I would note back:

1) UNH has had a rash of these issues in the last few years. So is it because more players are getting pushed back by not meeting the targets and the kid disagrees? Or is it because the time line is more of a promise in the kids mind. As a manager of a process you have to look at developing patterns and adjust, so I would be asking these questions to see where a disconnect now exists.

2) A great part of reality is percepction. It is unfortunate that the UNH programs recent record is a downward trend. That reality also leads to the perception that the coaches are not as competitant as they once were. Percieved issues in recruiting add to that, right or wrong. At this point for many fans the only remidy is a title or coach change, which is unfortunate. I think the staff needs to find away to manage the image better.

My perception is S. Borek is not that good an evaluator of tallent (but a really nice guy). This perception is from the stats of the players in junors, the product on the ice when they arrive, the lack of the impact players UNH has landed as compared to before he joined the staff, and the number of deferals and commitments lost. Reality I don't know all the facts but I draw conclusions from the information I have.

Thanks again for posting - a rare treat of real information.

 

[Josh Ciocco]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Josh,

I too appreciate your comments. Thanks for the insight. It is rare we actually here from people with experience.

Two items I would note back:

1) UNH has had a rash of these issues in the last few years. So is it because more players are getting pushed back by not meeting the targets and the kid disagrees? Or is it because the time line is more of a promise in the kids mind. As a manager of a process you have to look at developing patterns and adjust, so I would be asking these questions to see where a disconnect now exists.

2) A great part of reality is percepction. It is unfortunate that the UNH programs recent record is a downward trend. That reality also leads to the perception that the coaches are not as competitant as they once were. Percieved issues in recruiting add to that, right or wrong. At this point for many fans the only remidy is a title or coach change, which is unfortunate. I think the staff needs to find away to manage the image better.

My perception is S. Borek is not that good an evaluator of tallent (but a really nice guy). This perception is from the stats of the players in junors, the product on the ice when they arrive, the lack of the impact players UNH has landed as compared to before he joined the staff, and the number of deferals and commitments lost. Reality I don't know all the facts but I draw conclusions from the information I have.

Thanks again for posting - a rare treat of real information.

I would have ask if you pay attention to only UNH or do you look as closely at every program? The recruiting game has changed so much in the last 6-8 years that comparing "loss of commitments" from one era to the next is simply not fair. You have two options in this day and age, recruit young kids or do not play the game and miss out on the cream of the crop players. All of the top programs who compete for the best 15 and 16 year olds have all had their fair share of misses, players who havent developed as expected, gone major junior, werent accepted into school, etc. Because you commit to these kids so far in advance it is expected that you will not be perfect. If you examine another program as closely you do UNH you will see other programs have their problems too. BU is a program I respect a great deal, I feel Mike Bavis and Buddy Powers are two of the best in the game---but I am using their program as a recent example. Off the top of my head Adam Erne, Anthony DeAngelo and Robert Polesello never made it to campus. Should Mike Bavis be criticized for what just happened with Polesello? No, its all part of the game. Its his job to recruit the best players and when Polesello was 15 and BU needed to make a decision on him it made alot of sense.

I am close with Scott Borek and for that matter the entire UNH program. It is my opinion that he has done an excellent job of keeping UNH stocked with talent. Since his arrival UNH has only missed the NCAA tournament 1 year. To have the talent capable of making the NCAA tournament on an annual basis is very impressive. Here are a couple things I would like to point out. First, UNH needs tangible change. Facilities very much so play a role in the recruiting game. I think the Whit is a great rink and the best place to play college hockey in my opinion. But if you go down to BU and BC there is simply no comparing the facilities. Id really like to see UNH enhance the locker room, build a lounge (which just about every other team has one) and potentially build their own weight room (which alot of other teams have). These things DO make a difference. Since Scott Borek has arrived there have been zero tangible changes made. BU built a palace 1 hour away. Merrimack renovated their entire rink/locker room. Northeastern has built a first class players only weight room and renovated the locker room. Maine has renovated their entire facility. If you think these things do not make his job MUCH more challenging than you are sadly mistaken. I am not going to say its impossible for UNH to out recruit BU and BC, but it is MUCH more challenging now than it was 15 years ago. Facilities do make a big difference. Look no further than Miami of Ohio and how much better that program has gotten. Look no further than BU and how the program was on a serious decline before Agganis. My Freshman year, the final season at Walter Brown Arena, BU finished 8th place. Do you know what UNH's recruiting budget is? I wont go into details, but I will tell you that Providence College has double the budget of UNH---how much more do you think BC and BU have? I believe the state and the school need to recommit themselves to having a top notch program and make tangible changes---Scott Borek is not the fall guy here.

You focus on the negatives, I tend to focus on the positives and I feel Scott Borek has found more overlooked players than any other coach in Hockey East. Bobby Butler was passed over by BC and BU and developed into a Hobey Finalist. Paul Thompson was passed over by BU and BC and developed into a Hobey Finalist. Mike Radja was a first team All-American and the only other school recruiting him was RPI. JVR is the top recruit UNH has ever brought through the doors of the Whit. Tyler Kelleher, Shane Eiserman, Dylan Chanter and Cam Marks are all "A" rated recruits. The future is very bright at UNH and alot of that has to do with outstanding recruiting. Anyone who follows the UNH program knows that in the last 8 years admissions has changed a great deal for the UNH Hockey program and there was a learning curve associated with that change.

I think as fans of the program you should look deeper at the issues at hand instead of looking for someone to blame for UNH having 1 season in recent history that would be deemed "poor"... You state a downward trend in the UNH Hockey program since scott Borek's arrival--I got to UNH during Borek's 2nd year. Off the top of my head I believe I won 92 games during my 4 year career, thats an average of 23 win per season. You feel there has been a drop off in talent level yet we averaged 23 wins per season? There are not many people in college hockey that would be unhappy with averaging 23 wins per season. All in all I think the UNH Coaching staff has done a great job and will eventually win the big one. Support the team. Support the staff. It all helps, trust me.

 

[Hokydad]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Erne and Deangelo had zero to do with development or talent. Didnt come for every reason but talent

I dont know what recruiting budget means but I have never not seen UNH at a single event and have seen them at more USHL and BCHL games then all 3 of the schools you mentioned.

Also safe to say UNH facilities are like the United Center in Chicago compared to Merrimacks.. Now thats a guy who has built a program on a shoe string.

 

[Josh Ciocco]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Erne and Deangelo had zero to do with development or talent. Didnt come for every reason but talent

I dont know what recruiting budget means but I have never not seen UNH at a single event and have seen them at more USHL and BCHL games then all 3 of the schools you mentioned.

Also safe to say UNH facilities are like the United Center in Chicago compared to Merrimacks.. Now thats a guy who has built a program on a shoe string.

Adam Erne and Anthony Deangelo were both given full scholorships and both held those scholorships for about 1 years time. They chose to recruit those players and offer them scholorships as opposed to going after other players. It was not until after those players decommitted that they gave that money out to other players. Meaning they missed on other top 95's who committed to other schools during that time. A miss is a miss if you ask me, doesnt matter how/why, and those two players did effect BU in a negative fashion.

Every team in the NCAA has a recruiting budget, though teams like BC have an unlimited budget--which is a huge advantage. It is the amount of money they can spend recruiting. This includes travel to and from events for the coaches, hotels, flights, rental car, etc. It also entails flying recruits in to see the campus, flights, etc. For a player to fly in from British Columbia the flight alone, depending on the notice--which is usually short--is about $1,000. UNH has to be very selective about where they go, which recruits they fly in, etc because their budget is one of the lowest in D1 college hockey. The fact that you still see them everywhere is a feather in their caps.

Mark Dennehy has done an outstanding job at Merrimack. I am not taking anything away from the job that has been done there. I think if Jerry York retired it would be hard to overlook Dennehy for the BC job right now. Albie O'Connel, one of the best talent evaluators there is is you ask me, landed them some high end guys (DaCosta) and the current staff has done a great job not losing momentum. But UNH and Merrimack rarely find themselves competing for recruits. I dont understand why you brought Merrimack up? Merrimack has not beat BU or BC out of any recruits. What Mark Dennehy has done is take less heralded players and turn them into a competitive team who in the last couple of seasons have competed on the national stage. Though it will be interesting to see how much Cannata impacted that situation and if they can withstand his departure. The comment I was responding to was that UNH no longer gets the top end recruits that they used to---Sean Collins, Darren Haydar, Eddie Caron, etc. I was merely saying that other programs have improved their facilities while UNH's is declining--making Scott Borek's job more challenging than that of Brian McCloskey. I also disagree that they no longer get top end recruits as the job they have done with the '95 class in particular has the potential to be better than any age group UNH has ever brought in. I understand that these kids need to make it to campus---but right now that group of kids is very high end and not only is it on par with recruiting classes of the late 90's and early 2000's---its better!

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Josh,

First a little about me. I grew up in Lee (I should update my profile as I moved 5 years ago) and remember my first UNH games in the late 70's as a kid with my dad. He has had season tickets for as long as I can remember, we are both Alumni (and "Friends"). I graduated with my BS in 97. I have met the coaching staff at different functions but all informally, and wouldn't say I know any of them. When Umile talks to the rotary club yearly I am a guest at the meeting and my father aways introduces me as being present because the Coach is is speaking and it is now a yearly chuckle. The one year I was out of town on business Coach had some funny remark about the absence of the usual guest. I used to follow all of college hockey as close as I could, which in the beginning was hard, I am one of the long time visitors here I go back several "message boards" but rarely post.

I would have ask if you pay attention to only UNH or do you look as closely at every program? The recruiting game has changed so much in the last 6-8 years that comparing "loss of commitments" from one era to the next is simply not fair.

I will admit since I took over a "new" position at work in Aug 2007, work has been crazy (crap it has been 4.5+ years) and has squeezed out keeping track of hockey as closely as I did in the past. I am lucky I read your post in a relavant time frame. I will keep that perspective in mind.

Off the top of my head Adam Erne, Anthony DeAngelo and Robert Polesello never made it to campus. Should Mike Bavis be criticized for what just happened with Polesello? No, its all part of the game. Its his job to recruit the best players and when Polesello was 15 and BU needed to make a decision on him it made alot of sense.

See above totally clueless.

Since his arrival UNH has only missed the NCAA tournament 1 year. To have the talent capable of making the NCAA tournament on an annual basis is very impressive.

I was a fan during the mid 80's (20 wins in 3 years) so I am not one that dismisses the NCAA run.

Id really like to see UNH enhance the locker room, build a lounge (which just about every other team has one) and potentially build their own weight room (which alot of other teams have). These things DO make a difference. Since Scott Borek has arrived there have been zero tangible changes made. BU built a palace 1 hour away. Merrimack renovated their entire rink/locker room. Northeastern has built a first class players only weight room and renovated the locker room. Maine has renovated their entire facility. If you think these things do not make his job MUCH more challenging than you are sadly mistaken.

I would agree this is unfortunate but unless some folks with big dollars show-up it isn't going to change the school doesn't have the money. But I do have a hard time with this excuse. Yes others facilities have improved but UNH still has better facilities than many. I don't see behind the walls but I have a hard time with rating Lawler above the Whitt.

You focus on the negatives,

Well not really. I focus on reality (and it sucks at times) and trends. Look at this string of numbers 28, 20, 26, 20, 26, 25, 20, 18, 22, 15. What is the Macro trend of these numbers? I would say down. It happens to be the UNH wins per year in order the last 10 years. Organizations are generally either growing or dieing. The pevious 10 years the numbers were generally pointing up.

It may be coincidence but I don't see the same talent on the ice.

I tend to focus on the positives and I feel Scott Borek has found more overlooked players than any other coach in Hockey East. Bobby Butler was passed over by BC and BU and developed into a Hobey Finalist. Paul Thompson was passed over by BU and BC and developed into a Hobey Finalist. Mike Radja was a first team All-American and the only other school recruiting him was RPI. JVR is the top recruit UNH has ever brought through the doors of the Whit.

I see the guys that grow in the program and it is something that should be a source of pride for the coaches. However Butler & Thompson were really only impact players 1 year of 4. Radja was 2 of four. Roll back 10 years and you had Krog, Haydar, Mowers, Nolan, etc. Many of those guys either hit the ground hard or were impact players 3 years and they were all in the same time frame. Where is that talent? I love the diamonds in the rough. But you also need to get some that aren't so much work for the return.

Tyler Kelleher, Shane Eiserman, Dylan Chanter and Cam Marks are all "A" rated recruits. The future is very bright at UNH and alot of that has to do with outstanding recruiting.

I would agree there is some fantastic potential, an exciting potential. But it take several years of that kind of talent to get there... Based on current trends will it get on campus. In my book it doesn't count until the talent actually wears the sweater.

Anyone who follows the UNH program knows that in the last 8 years admissions has changed a great deal for the UNH Hockey program and there was a learning curve associated with that change.

This has been sucky. I wish the learning curve hadn't been so slow. I am also surprised there hasn't been some leverage put on admissions. For the first time since I can remember UNH had adds on 9 asking for applicants the past spring. Even a reminder of when replies are do.

You feel there has been a drop off in talent level yet we averaged 23 wins per season? There are not many people in college hockey that would be unhappy with averaging 23 wins per season. All in all I think the UNH Coaching staff has done a great job and will eventually win the big one. Support the team. Support the staff. It all helps, trust me.

I look at the trend not just the average. Averages can hide what is happening. I have been taught when looking at monthly fiancial data to look at 3, 6 and 9 month rolling averages to spot trends.

28, 20, 26, 20, 26, 25, 20, 18, 22, 15.

I see two distinct sets in this 10 year run. First 5 average 24 wins per and a fairly stable program. The deviation in this "set" is crazy (16% from average) but I would guess fairly consistent to high performing college atheltics. I look at the last 5, average 20 wins per but I see a downward trend that scares me. We can slice this data a bunch of ways but it starts at 28 and ends at just about half in 15. Worse is the peaks are getting lower and the lows are getting deeper. If I am an executive I want an action plan to pull that trend up from down.


Thanks for the food for thought.


As an aside I think looking at season long team average stats hides what is going on. Is the team trending up, trending down etc. UNH this last year was terrible at PK in the beginning but trend up all year. So does an 84% PK number in late February really mean anything.

 

[Josh Ciocco]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

JB,

First, if you ever see me at a game feel free to introduce yourself. I enjoy talking about hockey, hockey east and especially UNH.

When mentioning facilities I know that UNH is not bottom of the barrel and when looking nationally still have one of the better rinks in college hockey.But as fans, you guys dont compare UNH's success with Merrimack. You want them to be better than BC and BU, right? You want them at the top of the league, right? All I am saying is that if you want the best you have to compete with the best. Competing with BU, BC, North Dakota, Michigan, Denver, Miami, Minnesota and Notre Dame means you have to keep your facilities competitive. In the late 90's and early 2000's UNH had better facilities than North Dakota, BU, Miami and Notre Dame---that is no longer the case. This makes it more challening for the coaching staff. That was my point---that Scott Borek's job is far more challenging than the previous assitant in charge of recruiting.

IN regards to talent, UNH still has players who arrive and make an immediate impact. Grayson Downing, JVR, Jacob Micflikier, Dan Winnik, Trevor Smith, TVR, Kevin Regan, Casey Desmith all come to mind. The reason I brought up the likes of Butler, Thompson and Radja is because I think Borek is better than most at finding big time players that other top programs are not on. Do you think if Mike Bavis and Greg Brown could go back in time they would not recruit those 3 players? Sure they would. Though I will say Mike Bavis has done a better job than anyone with finding talented recruited walk ons---Matt Gilroy, John Curry and Garrett Noonan all come to mind.

You seem to have a knack with numbes. Here is a small project for you. Take a look at UNH's wins/losses during the time before they got a new rink and after they got a new rink. Do the same for BU and Miami and Notre Dame if you have time. I am extremely confident that you will see a VERY strong correlation that with new facilties comes more wins, aging facilities means less wins.

I do not feel UNH's problems can not be fixed. They do not need a new rink---just a face lift. I think a lounge and weight room are projects that could be tackled to get UNH back in the mix with the top tier programs. Behind the visitors bench there is room to dig out that area. This will cost money, but I think it is a goal worth trying to reach. Again, I am aware UNH's facilities are better than most---but we want the program at the top--so it isnt fair to say, "The Whit is far better than Lawler." Lets compare what UNH has to work with against the programs we compare them to on the ice. And please---do not bring up Union and Ferris. Great seasons, but they have not even come close to the success UNH has had in past 10 seasons. 1 season does not make your program successful. As fans you guys hold UNH to a high standard---its championships or failure. My point is UNH has remained in the national picture despite lower budgets and worse facilties than the top programs---and I credit that to Dick Umile and his staff---and I am proud of the job they have done and am excited about what they future holds. If you are in the rinks as much as I am and watch the recruits they are bringing in you know there is a very positive buzz surrounding the team and the buidling blocks for a championship team are in place.

 

[Josh Ciocco]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Also, dismissing the current admissions challenges when comparing UNH now and UNH 15 years ago also is not fair. It makes the job WAY more challenging. Case in point--John Gaudreau. I know you guys are familiar with the situation. John is a very close family friend of mine. His father taught me the game when I was 7 years old. My litte brother is a '93 and played with John for years while growing up this. This season John's father and my dad are coaching a team together---point being is we are family friends and I know exactly what happened.

John decommitted from Northeastern in August and became a free agent. BU, BC, and UVM all made full scholorship offers for the 2012-2013 season. John is arguably the top freshman in the country--why wouldnt they make offers, right? UNH admissions, because it was late in the year and they had said no to other sports would not even review Johnny Gaudreau's application. I promise you this, John had a strong interest in going to UNH. His best freind is Jamie Hill, a UNH recruit. He asked me about my experience at UNH and I had great reviews of the program. JVR is someone John has skated with numerous times and JVR had great things to say. None the less, admissions wouldnt even look at his application. How much different would UNH have been this season if they had him? You think that would have been an issue 15 years ago? No chance. Dont ignore the current challenges and dismiss them as if they do not exist. The school and the state have to get behind the team like they used to be, as UNH hockey brings the state of New Hampshire a great deal of pride.

 

[Hokydad]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Big four for several years

BC, BU, UNH, ME.

Only NUMBER that really counts. NCAA titles

Last 20 years
BC 4
ME 2
BU 2
UNH 0

Your last paragraph goes on and on about success. I will bet you ten to 1 over the next 5 years Union beats UNH in every catagory, as well as academics. Zero scholarships, great recruiting classes coming in and heading in the right direction. Can't say that about University of No Hardware. Another guy with little budget, zero scholarships, twice the admision process and twice the momentum.

UNH is fine but by no means is heading in the right direction

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Doing some directional trending sounds interesting. I think the trick it to look for inflection points in running average win percentage - where did things change. Then map back to a potential cause. I would expect building changes to be a year or so delay as the new building could be sold to 1 maybe two classes early. New recruiting assistant would likely be 2-3 year as his guys take over. New head coach is a longer view as systems need to be torn apart a rebuilt in most cases.

The trick is getting the data, a quick check shows hockeydb might be the easiest to pull from into excel. I get head coach in that group but looking at new areana and assistant change will be a bit of digging. Now I just need the time around doing work and projects around the house.

This could take some time but I will post updates to this thread as it is based around recruiting. Anyway to post a excel plot/graph on this forum?




I do think in many cases the Arena came after the direction change UNH, Miami and Notre Dame sprng to mind. North Dakota and BU would seem more an exception - just of the top of my head. My guess is you get bump from the new building but the change is already in the works.

 

[Saetia22]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Josh, could you write a few sentences about each of the players in the incoming freshman class (the one's you are familiar with at least)?
I've never seen any of them play, but I feel like all of them could go either way. Brett Pesce sounds like he'll be really good, after further developing. Other bright spots/most immediate impacts - Jamie Hill and Maxim Gaudreault. Your thoughts? There is going to be a log-jam at the F position, and was wondering if anyone will break through.

 

[Wildcat13]

Josh, could you write a few sentences about each of the players in the incoming freshman class (the one's you are familiar with at least)?
I've never seen any of them play, but I feel like all of them could go either way. Brett Pesce sounds like he'll be really good, after further developing. Other bright spots/most immediate impacts - Jamie Hill and Maxim Gaudreault. Your thoughts? There is going to be a logo-jam at the F position, and was wondering if anyone will break through.

I second that request. I would love to hear your opinion. I think the last two classes have been good and I really like the potential of this years group. Personally, I like what we have done with recruiting in a D1 landscape much more competitive than 10 years ago. I am very optimistic about the future of UNH hockey.

 

[Josh Ciocco]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Big four for several years

BC, BU, UNH, ME.

Only NUMBER that really counts. NCAA titles

Last 20 years
BC 4
ME 2
BU 2
UNH 0

Your last paragraph goes on and on about success. I will bet you ten to 1 over the next 5 years Union beats UNH in every catagory, as well as academics. Zero scholarships, great recruiting classes coming in and heading in the right direction. Can't say that about University of No Hardware. Another guy with little budget, zero scholarships, twice the admision process and twice the momentum.



UNH is fine but by no means is heading in the right direction

Hokydad,

You are very bitter towards the UNH program and I did not come on here to go back and forth over things that I clearly can not change your mind about. Bitter is not a good smelling cologne. Maybe you re Vecchione's father, maybe you are his former coach. doesnt matter to me either way. I am sure he is a great kid and will end up doing just fine in life and I wish him the best---and I am sure the UNH coaches wish him the same. Coming on here and bashing the program and the coaching isnt going to do you or Mike Vecchione any good though. Just move on.

I think Union has done a great job the last few seasons. But here is what I will say: at the end of every season the NCAA gets together and decides who the best 16 teams in the country are. 4 of the last 5 seasons UNH has been one of those teams---Union has not had the same success, period. They play in a different league, and wins in the ECAC are not valued as much as wins in Hockey East. I do not make the rules or the formulas, I am just telling you how it is. In regards to moving in the right direction I can say this---there is not a single Union recruit that I would take over Kelleher, Eiserman, Pesce or Poturalski. I can say this because I have seen these kids play. This is not a knock against the job Union has done---I think they are doing a good job---but what I am saying is the 4 kids I just mentioned have more talent and are cut from a different cloth---leading me to think UNH is headed to a good place.

Do yourself a favor and let it go. Stop being so negative towards UNH. You may be bitter right now, but I assure they were doing what they felt was right by Vecchione.

Cheers.

 

[Josh Ciocco]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Josh, could you write a few sentences about each of the players in the incoming freshman class (the one's you are familiar with at least)?
I've never seen any of them play, but I feel like all of them could go either way. Brett Pesce sounds like he'll be really good, after further developing. Other bright spots/most immediate impacts - Jamie Hill and Maxim Gaudreault. Your thoughts? There is going to be a log-jam at the F position, and was wondering if anyone will break through.

I will do my best here based off of what I have seen and the coaching has told me...

Brett Pesce- The kid has alot of potential. Has excellent feet and is very savvy with the puck. Has the ability to be the top defenseman UNH has seen since Stafford. Will be draft eligible next season and Id expect him to go in the top 3 rounds. as a sophmore I think he will get strong consideration for the US World Junior Team. Is very slight right now and will probably have a 3 month adjustment period where he will have to get used to the pace and strength of the opposition. Could have bennefitted from another year of juniors, but at the same time was the top available defenseman in the country and there was no sense in bringing in an inferior defender.

Dan Correale- Is college ready and will challenge for a roster spot on a crowded line up. Has offensive abilities, but most importantly plays with an edge and toughness. Will bring an element to UNH and will provide a spark on small ice surfaces and physical games.Would have been at UNH this past season if not for an injury. Has second line upside, but will more than likely settle into a 3rd line role---think Josh Ciocco

Jamie Hill- Really improved his stock over the course of the playoffs where he led the USHL in playoff goals and was a big reason why Waterloo nearly won a title. The fans will love Jamie as he works his bag off. Is a really quick skater, but not fast goal line to goal line. Has a good, quick stick and can make plays in tight spaces. Will challenge for a 4th line spot and is the type of player coach umile will like. Has physical limitations. Best case scenario is he develops into a steve saviano--worst case scenario he ends up being a greg collins type player.

Kyle Smith- Very under rated. I have watched kyle for a long time and it takes some time to appreciate his game. He is one of those players who will never jump out at you, but if you watch him you will notice how many subtle good plays he makes. I think he will struggle to get into the lineup in his first year or two at UNH because he does not play with the energy of an effective 3rd/4th line guy---but this kid could really turn it on as he matures. Has Preston Callander upside---but more realistically his career will follow that of Josh Prudden.

Max Gaudreault- Think Jeff Silengo. Has good size and pays attention to the details. I will highly doubt he ever becomes a high end scoring forward and it could be tough for him to get more than 10-12 points per season. He will win draws, make good, safe decisions and bring positive intangibles into the locker room. Can make plays and could be someone to compliment the top end guys if need be.

Colin Macdonald- Will score goals at UNH. A late bloomer who is just figuring out how good he is. Can really shoot the puck and has a knack around the net. Good size kid who can skate and get to the net when he wants. The knock on him is that he coasts for long periods of time and sometimes finds himself on the perimeter a little too much. His style of play will remind some of Bobby Butler--though I cant say he will explode like Bobby did as a senior--but Bob was a good player his first three years at UNH too.

Harry Quast- I have not seen him play. I am told he has alot of upside as he is a big kid with a good stick. I was also told he will keep the dmen honest in practive and is good enough to steal a job on the blue line. UNH has had a great deal of success with recruited walk ons in the past---Jamie Fritsche was a full time guy for UNH and developed into one of the better defensive dmen in the league--tough to beat and play against.

All in all I think this is a solid class. Pesce is the only guy in this group who I would call an "A" prospect, but there is a couple others who I feel could develop into really solid players for UNH and be very good in the later years of their careers--such as Callander, Radja, Butler and Thompson. What is really exciting is the fall of 13 and 14 classes. Bringing in Masters (who is still committed), Poturalski and most importantly Kelleher will really add some immediate offense. Fall of 14 has the making to be even more special with Shane Eiserman (who I absolutley love---think Bill Arnold) and two studs out in BC in Chanter and Marks. The future is bright.

 

[Hokydad]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Not bitter Josh. Dont mistake debating vs bitter. Root for UNH. Vs everyone but a couple teams. Will continue to do so.
With all that talent they better hurry up and win one

Unions class coming in is very, very good.

.

 

[Josh Ciocco]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Not bitter Josh. Dont mistake debating vs bitter. Root for UNH. Vs everyone but a couple teams. Will continue to do so.
With all that talent they better hurry up and win one

Unions class coming in is very, very good.

.

Hokydad- That is good to hear. I am sure you are close to Vecchione and are obviously passionate about him. My personal observation is that I really respect what he did at Malden Catholic. I love that he stayed there all four years and went out with a bang. I know he was good enough to leave MC and play in the EJ, USHL and I am sure just about every prep program recruited him at some point. I think its great that he stayed and its always nice to see a throwback like collier, sean collins, chris capraro and in alot of ways Robby O'Gara--guys who know its not a sprint and realize highschool programs with quality coaches can do everything to prepare you for college. I wish badly we could wind the clock back and the recruitng landscape could return to the way it was 20 years ago. Maybe there was some miscommunication. You mentioned one coach told him one thing, and another coach told his coach in TC another thing. Probably was not the TC coaches place to stir the pot and he may have acted in way to get him back for another season? Alot of USHL coaches do this--they are paid a salary and sometimes they have to be selfish and try to get the kids back. I think Mike Vecchione will land on his feet. He was very productive at the end of the year and all signs point to him having a good year in 12-13. But I do think what was best for him was to be in the USHL next season--whether he goes to UNH or not. I think him getting 50 points, playing first line, PP, PK in TC is far better than fighting just to be in the lineup at UNH. Im sure it hurt the kid and he viewed this as a set back, but at the end of the day it was what was right for him and maybe in time he will realize that staff at UNH was not acting maliciously--they just wanted what was best for him and their program. If Union is where he ends up than great. Union is doing a great job, and in no way was i attempting to put the program down. I really like Tim Boyle and I think they have themselves a steal there. Boyle wanted to play in Hockey East and no one really recruited him--which is shocking. Brian was a late bloomer and really turned a corner at the end of his sophmore season. Tim got so much better this year and I think he will continue to do so at UNH. If i was an NHL scout Id strongly consider drafting him late. My point in comparing UNH to Union was to show the longevity that the UNH program has had. The program is held to such high standards that often times fans overlook how hard it is to get to the NCAA tournament and be on that level every year. It takes quality coaching and talented players to be on that level. I truly do hope UNH wins the big one before coach umile is done. I think they will have the talent to get it done--but the NCAA tourney is very hard to win and sometimes you need luck and bounces--thats what makes it so fun to watch, because anyone can win. I personally will not judge Umile's career on whether or not he wins the big one--I do not believe 1 game, and 1 goal (Lost in OT to Maine in 99) can define his career---but I want him to win because I know the vast majority of fans will define his career on whether or not he wins it. As a UNH fan I can assure talent is in the pipeline and there is indeed alot to be excited about. They have the potential to win it over the next 5 years. Having said that---so do other teams. BC's 2013 recruiting class is pretty scary in its own right. Hope all is well and hopefully we can get a little more positivity out of you one here

Cheers!

 

[WIrinkrat]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Josh,

Don't want to get you into any kind of trouble with any of these questions, but if you are able and willing to play analyst for us then we can just pretend it's a NESN call-in show and not a USCHO message board....

1) How do you see the top 6 shaking out next year? Several guys have seen time on the top two lines: Sorkin, Goumas, Downing, Henrion, Block, Silengo, Burke, Speelman....IMO Block and Silengo are more suited for a checking-line type role. If Burke stays healthy seems like he could be your other center along with Sorkin. Could a kid like Downing make the move to the middle?


2) Any thoughts on why Henrion has been so inconsistent and hasn't really developed into the go-to kind of goal scorer that it seems like he has the talent (which he has shown in occasional brief spurts) to be?


3) Did Speelman actually get a redshirt? By my count and understanding of the rule as it's published in the NCAA manual, he played in too many games last year to get a redshirt...but on the boards it was stated months ago that Umile had said he did get one. If he did get the extra year, how does that impact UNH's recruiting if they have to come up with whatever scholarship money he is on for that extra year?


4) Kostolansky had an excellent Sophomore campaign and I (and others too I imagine) expected him to be one of the steadying forces for a young blueline this past season...but far too often it seemed like he was the one that was struggling with his consistency. Did I make that up and/or any thoughts why his play might have taken a step back and how he can bounce back this year?

5) Casey Thrush impressed me last season with his skating ability and good size. What do you see as his offensive upside over the next few seasons, and where do you think his ceiling is in terms of production?


Thanks--I've enjoyed seeing all your thoughts on things thus far.

 

[Hokydad]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Hokydad- That is good to hear. I am sure you are close to Vecchione and are obviously passionate about him. My personal observation is that I really respect what he did at Malden Catholic. I love that he stayed there all four years and went out with a bang. I know he was good enough to leave MC and play in the EJ, USHL and I am sure just about every prep program recruited him at some point. I think its great that he stayed and its always nice to see a throwback like collier, sean collins, chris capraro and in alot of ways Robby O'Gara--guys who know its not a sprint and realize highschool programs with quality coaches can do everything to prepare you for college. I wish badly we could wind the clock back and the recruitng landscape could return to the way it was 20 years ago. Maybe there was some miscommunication. You mentioned one coach told him one thing, and another coach told his coach in TC another thing. Probably was not the TC coaches place to stir the pot and he may have acted in way to get him back for another season? Alot of USHL coaches do this--they are paid a salary and sometimes they have to be selfish and try to get the kids back. I think Mike Vecchione will land on his feet. He was very productive at the end of the year and all signs point to him having a good year in 12-13. But I do think what was best for him was to be in the USHL next season--whether he goes to UNH or not. I think him getting 50 points, playing first line, PP, PK in TC is far better than fighting just to be in the lineup at UNH. Im sure it hurt the kid and he viewed this as a set back, but at the end of the day it was what was right for him and maybe in time he will realize that staff at UNH was not acting maliciously--they just wanted what was best for him and their program. If Union is where he ends up than great. Union is doing a great job, and in no way was i attempting to put the program down. I really like Tim Boyle and I think they have themselves a steal there. Boyle wanted to play in Hockey East and no one really recruited him--which is shocking. Brian was a late bloomer and really turned a corner at the end of his sophmore season. Tim got so much better this year and I think he will continue to do so at UNH. If i was an NHL scout Id strongly consider drafting him late. My point in comparing UNH to Union was to show the longevity that the UNH program has had. The program is held to such high standards that often times fans overlook how hard it is to get to the NCAA tournament and be on that level every year. It takes quality coaching and talented players to be on that level. I truly do hope UNH wins the big one before coach umile is done. I think they will have the talent to get it done--but the NCAA tourney is very hard to win and sometimes you need luck and bounces--thats what makes it so fun to watch, because anyone can win. I personally will not judge Umile's career on whether or not he wins the big one--I do not believe 1 game, and 1 goal (Lost in OT to Maine in 99) can define his career---but I want him to win because I know the vast majority of fans will define his career on whether or not he wins it. As a UNH fan I can assure talent is in the pipeline and there is indeed alot to be excited about. They have the potential to win it over the next 5 years. Having said that---so do other teams. BC's 2013 recruiting class is pretty scary in its own right. Hope all is well and hopefully we can get a little more positivity out of you one here

Cheers!

Never said MV should have gone to UNH this year. Always felt he needed a full year of high end performance first in USHL, 2nd year is critical for development. Just supported his choice, not mine to make,
Very happy the way it worked out with USHL and feel there is no rush to get there. That 4 year window opens and closes quickly.

UNH coaches also get paid and are just as selfish as the USHL coaches, trust but verify should be the battle cry for every player/parent. I am sure you have heard a thousand times that the coaches dont really care about the kids and are there to win, UNH is no different. I am sure yiou can remember how miserable a lot of your teammates were..... Not to say they are not good people as they are. Several good friends who love them, which is good enough for me.

He passed on Union and will probably go elsewhere. Should have grabbed it as it is a great program and school and they do not over recruit. That coach gets it+. Has 4/5 Hockey East schools as well as 4/5 mid west programs on recruiting trail as we speak. remember, owner of Tri City had a kid on team last year. He was first everything 24/7. Good player and probably deserved it. Next year they are building around MV and Brian Ward, a sleeper/blue chipper who will be two of the top F's in league.

 

[Josh Ciocco]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Never said MV should have gone to UNH this year. Always felt he needed a full year of high end performance first in USHL, 2nd year is critical for development. Just supported his choice, not mine to make,
Very happy the way it worked out with USHL and feel there is no rush to get there. That 4 year window opens and closes quickly.

UNH coaches also get paid and are just as selfish as the USHL coaches, trust but verify should be the battle cry for every player/parent. I am sure you have heard a thousand times that the coaches dont really care about the kids and are there to win, UNH is no different. I am sure yiou can remember how miserable a lot of your teammates were..... Not to say they are not good people as they are. Several good friends who love them, which is good enough for me.


He passed on Union and will probably go elsewhere. Should have grabbed it as it is a great program and school and they do not over recruit. That coach gets it+. Has 4/5 Hockey East schools as well as 4/5 mid west programs on recruiting trail as we speak. remember, owner of Tri City had a kid on team last year. He was first everything 24/7. Good player and probably deserved it. Next year they are building around MV and Brian Ward, a sleeper/blue chipper who will be two of the top F's in league.

I can not speak on behalf of every college program, but UNH I can--and I will say that you are dead wrong here. Yes, the UNH coaches care very deeply about winning, and their jobs are on the line---but coach umile cares more about his players and winning the right way than the "win at all cost" approach. I can give you a couple good examples... UNH, just like every other team is given 18 scholorships to work with. Jamie Fritsche was a recruited walk on who was a regular in the lineup from day 1. He would have stayed at UNH with no scholorship money at all and given the same effort. But because it was the right thing to do he was awarded a scholorship and ended up leaving UNH with a 2/4. If the coaching staff wanting to be selfish and win at all cost they could have gone out and recruited another Dman or forward with that scholorship money, but it was not the right thing to do. There are countless other players with similiar stories. Another situation I will give you is that of Mark Kolanos. A full scholorship kid who never did develop into his brother. Not once, and I mean, not once did Mark Kolanos not feel wanted. They never tried to run the kid out of the locker room. He was scratched most the games throughout his career and we played with 17 scholorships---but the coaches were never bitter towards him or tried to get rid of him. Mark was a great guy, a great team guy--walked into the locker room with a smile everyday and was treated as much of the team as anyone else. If he came back to UNH today he would be embraced just as mark mowers, bobby butler, steve saviano or any other alum who had alot of success.

Pro hockey and junior hockey are different---it is very cut throat. It is a different feel at UNH and while not everyone is happy with their ice time, and surely kids are miserable, coach umile puts off ice personal development above everything else. Ask him what his job is and he will be more inclined to state that he shapes the lives of young men as opposed to simply a hockey coach. When you walk into the locker room their is no heirarchy---everyone is treated the same--this I can assure you. Cant speak for every program, just UNH.

 

[Hokydad]

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

Re: UNH Recruits: 2012-2016

I can not speak on behalf of every college program, but UNH I can--and I will say that you are dead wrong here. Yes, the UNH coaches care very deeply about winning, and their jobs are on the line---but coach umile cares more about his players and winning the right way than the "win at all cost" approach. I can give you a couple good examples... UNH, just like every other team is given 18 scholorships to work with. Jamie Fritsche was a recruited walk on who was a regular in the lineup from day 1. He would have stayed at UNH with no scholorship money at all and given the same effort. But because it was the right thing to do he was awarded a scholorship and ended up leaving UNH with a 2/4. If the coaching staff wanting to be selfish and win at all cost they could have gone out and recruited another Dman or forward with that scholorship money, but it was not the right thing to do. There are countless other players with similiar stories. Another situation I will give you is that of Mark Kolanos. A full scholorship kid who never did develop into his brother. Not once, and I mean, not once did Mark Kolanos not feel wanted. They never tried to run the kid out of the locker room. He was scratched most the games throughout his career and we played with 17 scholorships---but the coaches were never bitter towards him or tried to get rid of him. Mark was a great guy, a great team guy--walked into the locker room with a smile everyday and was treated as much of the team as anyone else. If he came back to UNH today he would be embraced just as mark mowers, bobby butler, steve saviano or any other alum who had alot of success.

Pro hockey and junior hockey are different---it is very cut throat. It is a different feel at UNH and while not everyone is happy with their ice time, and surely kids are miserable, coach umile puts off ice personal development above everything else. Ask him what his job is and he will be more inclined to state that he shapes the lives of young men as opposed to simply a hockey coach. When you walk into the locker room their is no heirarchy---everyone is treated the same--this I can assure you. Cant speak for every program, just UNH.

If I was the highest paid state employee and made more then the govenor, I would say the same thing....

Like I said, everyone that I know who knows him as a human being loves him, more then good enough for me. But at the end of the day, no different then the other coaches. Big time programs are there to produce. Kids get hurt along the way, such is life...

With your passion I now see why Milton is winning. Cannata better promote you to Associate Head Coach...