It is really more the terms and the $$$. From earlier in this thread it reported $270-$275k range, so yup bad performance (presumably without competition), got a raise.
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UNH Offseason Contract Edition.
- Thread starter norbert
- Start date
It is really more the terms and the $$$. From earlier in this thread it reported $270-$275k range, so yup bad performance (presumably without competition), got a raise.
Darius
Go 'cats!
I started in mid January.
I am pondering if the AD won't do it if we help a little... with an evaluation. Corporate style 1-5 rating.
I was late starting. I was convinced that the AD's move with basketball indicated she didn't have HUBS (head up butt syndrome). I was apparently wrong... contract terms will say how wrong.
Darius
Go 'cats!
The AD salary seems very reasonable given AD salaries elsewhere, other UNH non-athletic salaries and compared to UNH head coach salaries.
As I’ve previously posted, a salary bump for the men’s hockey coach is hard to understand while the U is making many difficult and painful financial decisions. Certainly it is not win/loss performance based. I don’t agree with, but understand the landing big donor reasoning. The thing is, was a raise (we still don’t know if there was one) offered or asked for? It’s not like the athletic budget is flush so why would you offer? If asked for and I were the AD, my response would have been to go find a better deal and I’ll match it if I can.
NCAA watcher
Registered User
JB, no matter what your desire is, you really can't move away from a coach that just won 20 games and is a finalist for HE Coach of the Year. You have to extend them. Your true feels are in the details. And as i said upstream, creating the veneer of a 3 year deal benefits both sides, even if the reality is less than a full commitment.
As to evaluating MS7 under a management rubric, let's not treat being a college coach the same as being a manager of a real enterprise. I doubt 95% of coaches are being put into management of any other million dollar enterprise.
As to evaluating MS7 under a management rubric, let's not treat being a college coach the same as being a manager of a real enterprise. I doubt 95% of coaches are being put into management of any other million dollar enterprise.
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TheGrouchyCat
Litter Box of Bad Ideas
Of course you can move on. Based on his track record, what was experienced this year was a statistical anomaly.
For what the budget of the Hockey Team is, of course a college coach can be measured under a management rubric. To think otherwise is naive and only proves that a level of safety and lack of accountability exists in a way that only a government job can provide.
If MS7 wants to make the big bucks, relatively speaking, he needs to live up to his responsibilities and be accountable for his performance. But, like so many executives, he is protected on high by unseen and influential patrons. Politics at play.
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Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
You mean, being paisan, and having friends in high places, many of whom have vowels at the end of their last names, doesn't count?!?!?!?
You've kinda re-iterated the question below, so I figured I'd start out with a good dose of snarkiness ... anyway, in a genuine attempt to give MS7 a fair shake in the process, here is a link to his UNH coaching bio:
Mike Souza - Head Coach - Men's Ice Hockey Coaches - University of New Hampshire Athletics (unhwildcats.com)
Looking at MS7's bio, you can see a lot of the usual references to his players' individual accomplishments rolled into what UNH considers to be MS7's own accomplishments. Fair enough ... a lot of coaches at a lot of different schools do this. But it was not until today that I realized the single most accomplished player Coach Souza has ever been credited with as a college coach is (drum roll please ...) Garnet Hathaway. When they were at Brown. If you don't recognize the name, no worries. Hathaway is a career NHL 4th liner, and currently serves as the resident goon for the John Tortorella-coached Philadelphia Flyers. Makes Dan Winnik look like Cam Neely ...
Obviously, Coach Umile was his "sugar daddy" upon his original hire, and Uncle Blue Skies adopted him after Captain Turtleneck retired to the comforts of Bow Lake. It now appears his "sugar daddy" sponsor is none other than TDL ... in case you're wondering who this mysterious new character is, you could Google "Key Auto Group owner" ...
Listen, I'm hardly a guy who will get all stuffy about what degree someone earned or didn't earn when they were 21 yrs. old. My degree is in accounting, and I've never worked a single day in that trade. The other wide range of business courses I took at Bentley (then) College were WAY more useful to my professional career that has followed over the last 40 or so years now, and (on this day of humble bragging) landed me a slice of paradise with the world-renowned WIS Estate (lol). But I did notice in Souza's UNH Coaching bio that despite mention of some of the student-athlete awards he earned, it never got around to mentioning his major/degree.
After a little more digging, it turns out that MS7's degree is a BS in Kinesiology and Exercise Science. Pretty standard D-1 athlete fare at the time, so nothing wrong with that ... but you do wonder if there were any business or management courses in the mix, and whether those (if missing?) would have gotten him a little better prepared for some of the challenges that D-1 coaches face in managing their programs off the ice? But I'll conclude with this cynical take ... if you're used to having folks around you smoothing the path ahead for you, you can't help but underestimate the scope and demands of the tasks that lie ahead at your destination. JMHO.
I think some UNH posters here are being too harsh with Souza. There's no fair way to fully evaluate his performance without having a precise measure of his resources relative to his competition. UNH's facilities seem to be second rate by Hockey East standards. That's important with recruits and advisors. I dare say coaching salaries and resources for recruiting are also near the bottom of Hockey East. Assuming Souza's resources are lacking, this season was a huge step in the right direction, although it needs to continue on an upward trajectory. Equally important is news that more money is being invested in facilities, which could change the perception of the program in recruiting circles.
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Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Fair take, 'Watcher ... but what drives me nuts is that one 20 win season IS demonstrably a statistical anomaly, and the season ended the way every other season has, with the smoldering wreckage of UNH Hockey disabled by the roadside, somewhere short of the TD Garden. But it's academia, so real world does not apply.
The "Finalist" thing is just the good ol' boys club, looking after one another, protecting their phony-baloney jobs, if you will. Look at the field for the award this season: Greg Brown (BC-1), Jay Pandolfo (BU-2), Ben Barr (UMaine-3) ... and Mike Souza (UNH-6). Why four (4) finalists BTW? But even if you assume four finalists was in good faith ... there's a pretty huge gap between the other three guys and Souza. Three finalists all made it to the Garden, and three finalists made it to the NCAA's (and one non-finalist also made it to both) ... and the fourth finalist worked on an expiring contract this season, and finished in the middle of the pack. But it's a harmless little bauble to add to the mix, and help a fellow traveler make it to his next contract. SO calculated. But it works, so the good ol' boys keep the party going, and UNH diehards take one in the shorts. Just another day in paradise, eh?
See I look at this and it makes me laugh.
All these notes about 2023-24, first time in 10 years, this and that. Folks he has been here 9 years, 6 as coach and 3 as head recruiter & coach in waiting. So he is responsible for the mess.
His best note is in his first year he was awesome at coaching the power play, with players already here and it is a nice number. For reference at the same time those UNH teams went 16.6%, 20.3% and 19% in the three previous years. Also for perspective the last three years 18.9%, 19.8%, 15.8%. So yea 23.9% and first in hockey east is neat, but we aren't talking about this years Michigan team at 34.5%.
TheGrouchyCat
Litter Box of Bad Ideas
Like any organization, resources are going to vary. Merrimack had a hell of a run last year with a horrible facility and smaller budget. You know what the difference was...The Coach, you know the guy that used to work at UNH.
Are you suggesting that there is a direct correlation between the decline of UNH Hockey and the funding? During the glory years, we didn't hear about resource constraints, budgets of our competition or corporate sponsorships or how BC, BU, Maine had more funding. The team still competed and won. One of the keys to the successful program of the time were the recruiting efforts of Serino, McCloskey and Borek. They had a remarkable run of going to out of the way places and finding undiscovered talent. Let's be honest, these guys were the secret weapons of Umile and the true engine of the entire program.
Agreed that facilities need to be upgraded. Once they are, and Souza still has a sub .500 record after ten years at the helm, what will the excuse be then? At what point, does the coach, aka Chief Executive, of the program be held accountable?
Don't drink the Kool-Aid.
The excuses aren't why the team isn't winning. That the excuses are being made IS the reason the team isn't winning. That attitude permeates everything. A great salesman can sell ice to an eskimo. College sports is really all about recruiting, if you can't get the talent you can't win, and getting the talent is a sales job.
"Stanley Goodspeed : I'll do my best.
John Mason : Your "best"! Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and f@#k the prom queen."
TheGrouchyCat
Litter Box of Bad Ideas
TheGrouchyCat
Litter Box of Bad Ideas
MS7 is our own nepo baby!
Listen, I don't disagree with your assessment regarding the value of a formal degree. Hell, my MBA was nothing more than a credentialing. My real MBA was learning on the ground lessons in the trenches of Southeast Asia and China, launching JVs and wholly owned subsidiaries for US based companies. There were times that I failed in a spectacular fashion dealing with foreign governments, faced the consequences and took my lumps. But, I gained experience through failure but took the lessons home with me. St. Souza has also failed in spectacular fashion, but has he learned the lessons? Based on his extensive track record, the answer is no.
With MS7, it's like he's been protected on high like the son of a CEO. Teflon Mike. Any other figure head of a program would have been fired a lifetime ago. Just because you want a job, doesn't mean you're qualified for the job.
wildcatfan_GoNH
New member
If I had to guess this fella thinks of himself (he admitted that he is a dad, woke mob) as very successful in business, which is fine, but is determined that the rest of us on a college hockey forum know this and are reminded of it. I wish Souza had your gusto to not allow recruits to say no to 4 years in Durham
TheGrouchyCat
Litter Box of Bad Ideas
That's a first, being called woke. I'm triggered and insulted. Wasn't it UNH that conceived the "microagression" a decade ago? I'm offended and my feelings are hurt.
As for the rest, it's context in terms of performance and organizational management. Let's be frank, most of us on these board skew towards the AARP set and our real life experience has humbled us, taught us and prepared us better than our degrees ever did. I'm state school UNH kid that has been extraordinarily fortunate to have seen how organizations are run, good and bad, up close and in real time. It isn't always pretty. UNH has an MBA program. Perhaps it should do a case study on how poorly the hockey program is being managed, why the Friends were banished, how fans and STHs have been alienated and quantify the amount of lost revenue and empty seats at the Whitt since the start of MS7's tenure.
Most of the posters on this board have more common sense that St. Souza or our AD Formerly Known as SB. That is worth more than any degree or certification. Myself included.
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I will give our AD the benefit of doubt that she can recognize what we see as a statistical anomaly. However, she obviously saw a dramatic improvement in the team this season as a positive that MS7 sold as his breaking through past recruiting and coaching limitations. Whereas many of us see MS7’s success this past season as luck of the draw in grabbing Hellsten from the portal, the AD likely saw acquisition of Hellsten as MS7’s genius as a talent evaluator.
Many on our season thread were still insisting as recently as mid-February that MS7 should rotate Hellsten and Muszelik, and that not doing so was MS7’s selfish attempt to save his own skin. Many posters here wanted our team to lose as many games as possible (tank?) to influence the AD not to renew MS7’s contract. Unfortunately, our lengthy season thread was one of those removed by the moderators ostensibly to stabilize this site, so unless someone copied and saved the entire thread, we do not have a way to verify what was posted.
I remain optimistic that we do not lose key players to the portal this offseason. So far it looks like our players who have entered the portal may be “addition by subtraction,” especially for Muszelik and Sardarian, whom as NHL picks likely will free up full schollies. If those key players we want to stay are paying attention to how Damien Carfagna, Jake Dunlop, Dave Fessenden, and Chase Stevenson fared in their new digs this past season, they might think twice about leaving via the portal [three of the four dropped below their mostly humble stats at UNH; Carfagna registered the fifth most points with 16 at UNH in 2022-2023, but dropped to 6 points at Ohio State in 2023-2024, whereas Dunlap went from 7 points at UNH to 8 points at Ohio State; whoop-de-doo].
I still need to reply to JB’s post a few pages back on comparison of records between UNH and the five schools that are replacing their head coaches during this offseason, and Chuck’s childish ‘woke’ name calling, a term that I am actually proud to embrace for myself.
TheGrouchyCat
Litter Box of Bad Ideas
Not that it was advertised, but Muszelik was battling a knee injury and at one point was considered a candidate for surgery. In this regard, the injury forced the hand of MS7 to ride Hellsten and the heater that he was on.
As for the transfer portal, knowing the strength of the NoDak program and the quality of players recruited in, how much of a risk was it bringing Jakob or Harry to Durham? Same could be said about a handful of other programs Michigan, Minnesota, Minnesota-Duluth, Michigan, etc. Fit and need always will play a part in the discernment process, but from a pure talent standpoint, if a player was good enough to be recruited to a Top 5 or 10 program, wouldn't they be good enough to play at UNH?
TheGrouchyCat
Litter Box of Bad Ideas
Leaving to play with your brother is a special opportunity. You can't begrudge a kid that.