UNH Men’s Hockey 22-23: the start of something new, or more of the same?

[Snively65]

Saw Ned Yetten getting a name drop in 'Watcher's post this afternoon. Former BC goalie from the Snooks Era.

Snives, I'm sure the name is familiar to you, more so for Bentley's long-time football coach ... Ned's brother Peter, who coached Bentley's National Club Football Champions when I was a student, gradually moved the program up through D-III to D-II I believe? Also part of BU's '71 National Champions in ECAC D-1 hockey, along with three teammates who were future D-1 HC's at HEA schools - Steve Stirling, Toot Cahoon and Ron Anderson.

Found this article on the Northeast 10 website, fascinating read and a real slice of life with Coach Yetten ...

Boston Globe: 'He has been a coach for all their seasons; Bentley football enters 26th year under Yetten' - Northeast 10 Athletics

"Peter was a tremendous motivator," recalled Kevin Lucey, a Bentley Athletic Hall of Famer and the team's first varsity quarterback 16 years ago out of Wakefield High. "He had complete hold of our team and an uncanny knack of, by Wednesday or Thursday, building you up emotionally for Saturday's game. By Friday, you'd be so fired up, you were ready to pounce on your little brother."

Lucey said Yetten would tell the Bentley squad that "the other team was coming in to get the little Bentley accountants with their pocket protectors, and he made you believe it."

Good article; thanks! Glad that I had two more free reads outside the Globe’s paywall. I am not into football, but attended a game on occasion when I had some players in one of my classes. Bentley has had success in football and basketball, but sadly, even with an arena on campus now, hockey success eludes, although the Falcons beat Maine 6-1 in Waltham earlier this season.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Many of the great UNH speedy forwards noted above, like Ftorek who probably should have played in Div 1 just to set some all-time scoring records, were too small to make much of a mark in the NHL. I think that the most successful UNH forwards in the NHL were bigger, if not the fastest skaters, like Bogie, the aforementioned Mark Mowers, Dan Winnik, and the “third line plodder” JvR.

I played with the possibility of Boguniecki (sp?) as a "legend" too, but figured he came up just short of guys like Mowers and Krog. If there was a second category for "folk hero" or something, he'd be at the top of that list. Personality-wise, the best I can think of is that he was a Josh Ciocco type with WAY more talent. He was also here at the dawn of the Internet age, when personality wasn't measured by followers, and guys weren't constantly buried in their cellphones. If Bogey ever returned to UNH - last I'd heard is he was an AHL assistant at Bridgeport - I'd welcome him with open arms. His personality and fire (and coaching at the next level) would make a terrific candidate.

JvR update: broken finger, out until late December. In the last year of his contract, and despite being the second oldest regular on the Flyers' roster (behind only UMA alum Justin Braun), he is not among the captains this year, even with Claude Giroux having moved on. Look for him to be moved to a legit contender at the trade deadline ... where yes, he will be looked to as bottom six depth and a second PP unit add-on, which I suppose is marginally better than the "third line plodder" I tagged him with a few years ago. But he's definitely underperformed for his 5 year, $35MM contract, with an average of 22 goals per year through the end of last season, Snives.

In other news, younger brother TvR is making $1MM per year in Washington, and has a Cup ring from his time in Chicago. Baby brother BvR is playing for three squares and $20,000 with the Orlando Solar Bears in the 'Coast.

 

[Felger]

Listening to the replay of last night's game on NESN+, heard the play-by-play guy describe UNH's coach as "legendary Mike Souza". My apologies to Captain Chase Stevenson, as now your description of Providence and NU as "unbelievable" opponents now seems almost sane by comparison. Yowzah.

Quick early-in-the-week topic for fun discussion ... who in the long line of UNH players and coaches has a legitimate stake to be referred to as "legendary"? For me, Coach Holt (definite) and Coach Umile (probable) ... players would include Gordie Clark, Ralph Cox, Rod Langway, Cap Raeder, Jason Krog, Mark Mowers, and Darren Haydar. There are probably lots of borderline, debatable candidates among players.

For criteria, I think you have to be at least arguably the best player on your team, stick around for most of your eligibility (if Langway is yes, can JvR be no?) and accomplish something worthwhile on your watch. Souza gets credit for the '98 and '99 FF trips, and for his four year stint ... but a guy like Steve Saviano measures up AT LEAST to Souza's level, plus was a prominent guy in the '02 and '03 HE Tourney wins and corresponding FF trips.

Thoughts?

Believe it or not Chuck I heard it live and you were the first person I thought of. If I had your phone number I would have called or texted you. (You don't want to know the second thing I thought of.)

I must disagree with you a bit on your criteria for a "legend." Not sure that staying four years should be a requirement. After all Paul Kariya only played a year and a half at Maine but wouldn't you consider him a legend? Not that it matters for your argument as I don't consider JVR a legend anyhow. Sure he was a high draft pick, and yes he has had a nice NHL career but his numbers at UNH were pretty pedestrian compared to a two year guy like Bob Miller...as far as I'm concerned there havem't been any UNH hockey legends in a long. long time.

 

[Chuck Murray]

I must disagree with you a bit on your criteria for a "legend." Not sure that staying four years should be a requirement. After all Paul Kariya only played a year and a half at Maine but wouldn't you consider him a legend? Not that it matters for your argument as I don't consider JVR a legend anyhow. Sure he was a high draft pick, and yes he has had a nice NHL career but his numbers at UNH were pretty pedestrian compared to a two year guy like Bob Miller...as far as I'm concerned there havem't been any UNH hockey legends in a long. long time.

Kariya? Of course, he's a UMaine (and overall D-1) legend. He packed an awful lot of accomplishments into his short time in Orono. Neither Miller nor JvR can match that, as great as Miller's numbers were. Kariya won Hobey, the *D-1 title and scored 100 points in his lone full season there, before he left to lead Team Canada to the Olympics, where they were two minutes away from the gold, and then lost in the shootout.

When you think about even just the 100 points, I know I think about other great D-1 seasons, including Bobby Miller (89 pts.), Jason Krog and Martin St. Louis (85 pts. apiece). With Krog's season, for example, it seemed like everything he touched turned to gold. The mind boggles at what a line of Bekar/Krog/Haydar could have accomplished, given that Bekar was a better scorer than Souza (scoring almost as many goals in three seasons as Souza scored in four - 65 v. 66), and nearly matched Krog's overall scoring in '98 - 60 v. 66). Then you realize that Kariya scored 15 more points - almost another half PPG than Krog in his magical '99 season - and your jaw just drops.

Over the course of my college hockey fandom, I held the opinion for many years after reaching majority that BC's Joey Mullen was the most talented D-1 player I'd ever seen. Then Kariya came, and in his one-plus season, he moved to the top of that list. A few years after that, I caught Martin St. Louis in his UVM (ECAC) heyday, and to this day, I think MSL just edged it over Kariya (who had a better supporting cast).

We totally agree, it's been a LONG time since UNH has had anyone approaching "legend" status, which is a shame ...

 

[Felger]

Kariya? Of course, he's a UMaine (and overall D-1) legend. He packed an awful lot of accomplishments into his short time in Orono. Neither Miller nor JvR can match that, as great as Miller's numbers were. Kariya won Hobey, the *D-1 title and scored 100 points in his lone full season there, before he left to lead Team Canada to the Olympics, where they were two minutes away from the gold, and then lost in the shootout.

When you think about even just the 100 points, I know I think about other great D-1 seasons, including Bobby Miller (89 pts.), Jason Krog and Martin St. Louis (85 pts. apiece). With Krog's season, for example, it seemed like everything he touched turned to gold. The mind boggles at what a line of Bekar/Krog/Haydar could have accomplished, given that Bekar was a better scorer than Souza (scoring almost as many goals in three seasons as Souza scored in four - 65 v. 66), and nearly matched Krog's overall scoring in '98 - 60 v. 66). Then you realize that Kariya scored 15 more points - almost another half PPG than Krog in his magical '99 season - and your jaw just drops.

Over the course of my college hockey fandom, I held the opinion for many years after reaching majority that BC's Joey Mullen was the most talented D-1 player I'd ever seen. Then Kariya came, and in his one-plus season, he moved to the top of that list. A few years after that, I caught Martin St. Louis in his UVM (ECAC) heyday, and to this day, I think MSL just edged it over Kariya (who had a better supporting cast).

We totally agree, it's been a LONG time since UNH has had anyone approaching "legend" status, which is a shame ...

The Bekar factor is one of the biggest "what might have been beens" in UNH hockey history. He was hurt in the 1998 win over BU that got them to the FF, then wasn't there in 1999. As you correctly point out what a line that could have been, not to mention the ancillary benefit of a pretty good player in Souza dropping to the second line giving the '99 team even more depth.

 

[Darius]

The Bekar factor is one of the biggest "what might have been beens" in UNH hockey history. He was hurt in the 1998 win over BU that got them to the FF, then wasn't there in 1999. As you correctly point out what a line that could have been, not to mention the ancillary benefit of a pretty good player in Souza dropping to the second line giving the '99 team even more depth.

Still hurts.

Yes on Bobby Miller.

When thinking about more modern day legends, keep in mind that points came MUCH easier back in the day. Do NOT get me started on modern day goalie size, style of play and equipment.

 

[d.gerry]

The Bekar factor is one of the biggest "what might have been beens" in UNH hockey history. He was hurt in the 1998 win over BU that got them to the FF, then wasn't there in 1999. As you correctly point out what a line that could have been, not to mention the ancillary benefit of a pretty good player in Souza dropping to the second line giving the '99 team even more depth.

The Lanny Gare injury just before the Frozen Four is another big "what might have been" for UNH.

 

[Snively65]

The Lanny Gare injury just before the Frozen Four is another big "what might have been" for UNH.

Arrgghh! Twenty-year anniversary coming up this April, and seems like yesterday. I will make my case for Lanny (“I would rather be stabbed in Lowell than a black bear in Maine”) for the “UNH legends” list. He was the heart and soul of the 2002/03 team, along with Mike Ayers and Colin Hemingway (Google his name with YouTube great goal), and led the team in scoring with 51 points (Hemingway had 47 points, Saviano 39, Collins and Abbott 30 each). Moreover, Lanny was still playing in Europe this past season; how cool is that? If not for 19-year-old Gopher “legend” Thomas Vanek breaking 1-1 tie with under 12 minutes left, and assisting in dagger three minutes later, what could have been.

 

[Snively65]

The Bekar factor is one of the biggest "what might have been beens" in UNH hockey history. He was hurt in the 1998 win over BU that got them to the FF, then wasn't there in 1999. As you correctly point out what a line that could have been, not to mention the ancillary benefit of a pretty good player in Souza dropping to the second line giving the '99 team even more depth.

So true, and Bekar left a year early for what? For a total of 11 games, 0 points, and 6 penalty minutes in the NHL. I have a couple things in my life that I would do differently if given the chance; wonder if Bekar does also?

 

[Felger]

Arrgghh! Twenty-year anniversary coming up this April, and seems like yesterday. I will make my case for Lanny (“I would rather be stabbed in Lowell than a black bear in Maine”) for the “UNH legends” list. He was the heart and soul of the 2002/03 team, along with Mike Ayers and Colin Hemingway (Google his name with YouTube great goal), and led the team in scoring with 51 points (Hemingway had 47 points, Saviano 39, Collins and Abbott 30 each). Moreover, Lanny was still playing in Europe this past season; how cool is that? If not for 19-year-old Gopher “legend” Thomas Vanek breaking 1-1 tie with under 12 minutes left, and assisting in dagger three minutes later, what could have been.

True story, the night before the 2003 NC game I went into some no name sub shop to grab a sandwich. There were a couple Minnesota fans in there, and I heard one of them say "Hello Thomas." He was in front of me in line. Can't believe it has been nearly two decades.

 

[Dan]

I've always wondered what 70 goals in three seasons Eric Nickulas could have done for that 1997-98 team - riding shotgun as a senior to a playmaker like Krog, Nolan or Mowers...

Mowers - Nolan - Nickulas
Souza - Krog - Bekar

 

[Chuck Murray]

I've always wondered what 70 goals in three seasons Eric Nickulas could have done for that 1997-98 team - riding shotgun as a senior to a playmaker like Krog, Nolan or Mowers...

Mowers - Nolan - Nickulas
Souza - Krog - Bekar

Good point. I think to some degree, many of us (myself included) focus more on the Bekar loss after '98 than on the Nickulas loss after '97, mostly because UNH got swamped in the FF semis in '98 to Michigan (as they did again in '02 to UMaine). In '99 and '03 UNH was so close, they could touch it (and we fans could dream). But Nickulas was a big miss, and actually scored a few goals in the NHL, as opposed to the ill-fated (but IMO superior) Bekar. We'll never know ...

 

[Snively65]

Good point. I think to some degree, many of us (myself included) focus more on the Bekar loss after '98 than on the Nickulas loss after '97, mostly because UNH got swamped in the FF semis in '98 to Michigan (as they did again in '02 to UMaine). In '99 and '03 UNH was so close, they could touch it (and we fans could dream). But Nickulas was a big miss, and actually scored a few goals in the NHL, as opposed to the ill-fated (but IMO superior) Bekar. We'll never know ...

I was so devastated by that 4-0 loss to the Wolverines, I sold my NC game ticket at face value to a BC fan as I had obtained the tickets at face through an old Hockey-L connection.

Considered doing the same four years later and taking in a Garrison Keillor show, but decided to watch the NC game instead because of a grad degree from U Maine.

 

[Darius]

So true, and Bekar left a year early for what? For a total of 11 games, 0 points, and 6 penalty minutes in the NHL. I have a couple things in my life that I would do differently if given the chance; wonder if Bekar does also?

Knowing how close his buddy Krog came the next year he might have the thought that it would have been cool to stay, but I suspect he has no regrets. I know nothing specific about his contract, but if I recall correctly, others in that time period were getting $500K+ signing bonuses. So basically a chunk of cash, the opportunity to finish his degree later (or not) and a shot at the NHL with the downside being a decades long playing career doing what he loves for decent if not great money that sets him up for a post playing business career.

Bekar was my favorite player on that team, I just loved his style of play. As with all early departures I told myself it was the price we paid for successfully recruiting top players. We had joined the top programs that had an early departure or two every year.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Want to ask the veterans on this board one question, and its an honest one. If Dick Umile had won a NC...would all have been 'forgiven' and would the future events (like, not doing a national search for the next HC) been welcomed/ok? This is not a snarky question...just a discussion q. Since you are going down the 'what if' lane (and I enjoy reading about the past, and sure do wish you had the chance to experience a NC; heck, I'd be thrilled to experience a HE championship/even GETTING to this game at this point would be an exciting event...!)

For me, no. Judging Umile based on a post being hit, or a goalie standing on his head is entirely artificial. Umile was the figure head for an organization (McCloskey/Serino) that brought him championship quality players, and they were perennial competitors for it.

The assumption that prior success permits future reckless conduct not made in the best interest of the team, or more accurately, bullying the supposed adult in the room charged with making those decisions (Scarano) doesn't fly. That's why organizations have structures to check one person's ego.
That Umile insisted on removing those checks on his power as a quid pro quo for retiring is the most selfish act. (compounded with the selfishness of insisting on staying beyond his effectiveness simply to get accolades.)

So, no, making a reckless, selfish decision that would hamstring the organization for a decade in the future would not be acceptable, even if Mowers' shot had not hit the post.

 

[Snively65]

Knowing how close his buddy Krog came the next year he might have the thought that it would have been cool to stay, but I suspect he has no regrets. I know nothing specific about his contract, but if I recall correctly, others in that time period were getting $500K+ signing bonuses. So basically a chunk of cash, the opportunity to finish his degree later (or not) and a shot at the NHL with the downside being a decades long playing career doing what he loves for decent if not great money that sets him up for a post playing business career.

Bekar was my favorite player on that team, I just loved his style of play. As with all early departures I told myself it was the price we paid for successfully recruiting top players. We had joined the top programs that had an early departure or two every year.

Yup, agree that you are likely correct. Was just looking at Pesce’s most recent six-year contract for $24 mil with the Canes, so early departure certainly worked for him, and there was practically zero chance that UNH during his would-be senior year had a shot at a NC.

 

[Darius]

For me, no. Judging Umile based on a post being hit, or a goalie standing on his head is entirely artificial.

Agreed. Taking those late 90s/early 00s seconds and minutes on their own, nothing changes. A bounce in '99 and we win a NC. In injury that doesn't happen, a goalie that has his normal good (not otherworldly) game, a player that doesn't depart early is just that and nothing more. The rides in those years were great. Not winning the last game doesn't change that feeling or the feeling about anything afterwards.

 

[d.gerry]

For me, no. Judging Umile based on a post being hit, or a goalie standing on his head is entirely artificial. Umile was the figure head for an organization (McCloskey/Serino) that brought him championship quality players, and they were perennial competitors for it.

The assumption that prior success permits future reckless conduct not made in the best interest of the team, or more accurately, bullying the supposed adult in the room charged with making those decisions (Scarano) doesn't fly. That's why organizations have structures to check one person's ego.
That Umile insisted on removing those checks on his power as a quid pro quo for retiring is the most selfish act. (compounded with the selfishness of insisting on staying beyond his effectiveness simply to get accolades.)

So, no, making a reckless, selfish decision that would hamstring the organization for a decade in the future would not be acceptable, even if Mowers' shot had not hit the post.

Well a national championship would have certainly softened the blow, but no it shouldn’t excuse running the program into the ground. If he’d hang a banner (or two), it might have changed the whole trajectory of the program. How many top recruits could Umile have nabbed after a championship year? Unfortunately we will never know.

 

[Chuck Murray]

When thinking about more modern day legends, keep in mind that points came MUCH easier back in the day. Do NOT get me started on modern day goalie size, style of play and equipment.

That's long been a personal point of contention here as well, so you'll get nothing but support from me Darius.

Watching goalies play from a default positioning of sliding back and forth on their pads, to me, is like the equivalent of nails across a chalkboard. When you can do that, and tuck your (massive) shoulder pads up under the crossbar and effectively block out most of the net, it stops being an athletic proposition, and becomes more of a geometry thing. Either penalize the practice, or raise the crossbar by 6 inches, if not a foot.

Hockey is arguably one of the most athletic sports we play, and the coordination and athleticism of what the rest of the players can do while on skates can be jaw-dropping. Seeing some oversized kid who can fill a net with mass and a keen sense of angles/geometry doesn't measure up. Literally and figuratively, it's time to raise the bar on goalies.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Well a national championship would have certainly softened the blow, but no it shouldn't excuse running the program into the ground. If he'd hang a banner (or two), it might have changed the whole trajectory of the program. How many top recruits could Umile have nabbed after a championship year? Unfortunately we will never know.

I probably come down as a little of both on the Umile issue, which probably reflects some gradual migration of thought on the topic. For me, if he wins in '99 or '03, then he'd have been next level in my mind. Win both, and definitely next level plus. That's Walshy without the '93 *asterisk. UNH admin could have been forgiven/at least granted more understanding for letting the guy who got them to the top of a D-1 mountain once (or especially twice) a little/lot more slack on the back end. And maybe the question we're not considering here is, does Coach Umile even stick around as long as he did in reality IF he did actually win the big game(s)?? I mean, does a guy with a proverbial "ring" really need to run a risk of tarnishing a championship reputation by sticking around too long to get to an artificial standard like the "next round number"??? I don't think so, and that's putting aside the whole "changed trajectory" issue you raise here, which is an absolutely valid argument. You go from being the "legendary UNH Head Coach Dick Umile" to the "legendary National Champion HC Dick Umile", and that could change everything going forward.

Even then, if/when McCloskey and Serino inevitably leave for greener pastures, and Coach Umile falls off like he did in the Scotty Borek Era, he could have used that process and his improved stature to perhaps bring in another second-in-command? Different recruiter(s), access to better recruits, etc. Umile's ability as a teacher of the game has probably been marginally undersold too, as we are now seeing with his hand-picked replacement's inability to really elevate the available level of talent on hand to be more competitive. How many times have we read in recent years that UNH and UMass Lowell are the only two HEA schools who aren't fishing for the elite talents per CSB or other scouting ratings ... but due to Coach Bazin's apparent ability to, er ... coach and teach, Lowell continues to win, while UNH continues to lag far behind?

So IMO, if Coach Umile had "won the big one(s)" then everything changes, the trajectory of the program improves, and that even could have resulted in him sticking around longer with better teams (like Coach York), and eventually ending up getting booted upstairs to share space with his paisan Blue Skies. Or just riding off into the sunset like he did, except with a better ending - at least to some degree. JMHO.