UNH- How Far West Do We Go?

[Snively65]

Let's start with Chilton and Rich acknowledging the fact that the hockey team is in an untenable state akin to a dumpster fire and stop with the empty promises and propensity of blowing sunshine up the asses of fans who are simply tired of excuses.

I have been in the President’s box with both of them at games and I can assure you that neither would admit in public that the men’s hockey team is in an untenable state akin to a dumpster fire.

 

[Snively65]

Boston College blanks Maine, 5-0, to advance to HEA semifinals

Too bad as I was hoping that BC would be eliminated so that Bruins could call up James Hagens for game today.

 

[Darius]

Do you think there would be interest in trying to revive FoH? I agree the funding “gap” that McMahon alluded to loosely lines up with the death of FoH.

I wonder if the university would bite if they were presented with a solid pitch, maybe also include info on how much money they raised, benefits for the team, etc. Maybe also some modeling on how the program can grow over time and overall organization goals, etc. FoH died before Rich arrived on campus. Same with the relatively new president. Maybe they aren’t as familiar with the massive benefits it provided?

It can’t hurt to at least ask. Still gotta find the best way to “pitch” it, and also find the right person to speak with the AD/other administration. If the school doesn’t want to put forth the effort to improve the team, maybe we as the fans should try and step up?

We shouldn’t have to, but it really seems the school is reluctant on this matter, and I think the UNH fanbase has the passion/numbers to help out.

Maybe I’m way out of line… Again, I’m forever an optimist, so I realize this probably comes across as a “pie in the sky” proposition. I gotta dream though!

Put together an outline. Don't invest more than an hour or two, but make it professional. No guarantees but I'm pretty sure I can find out if substantial work on a "solid pitch" would be welcomed.

 

[Snively65]

They play tomorrow night no? Maybe I'm not getting the gist of your post?

We will see if the Q does not win their next two games in the ECAC quarters and then the conference championship, which could limit the ECAC to two slots in the NCAAs.

 

[Darius]

More feathers in AD Rich’s nest as three UNH alpine ski team members won All American honors at the NCAA Ski Championships held at Utah Olympic Park at Park City this week. That should be good for a lucrative contract extension for the AD.

I "liked" then "unliked" because the last line is sarcastic I think. I was truly pleased reading the athletic department email about the All American skiers. Go 'cats!

 

[Darius]

Lots of interesting comments on here about Mikes column on Souza/UNH. Btw, my favorite is Elwood a/k/a JB’s theory that it’s the beginning of a soon to be broad based yet subtle PR campaign to get Souza a new contract. lol.

McMahon literally can get any HE coach or administrator on the tele or get a substantial return text from them whenever he wants. He’s straight up legit. Yet people question his integrity or competence. That’s no surprise to me. The chimps on this Board that claim to have “sources “ simply don’t.

It’s very simple. UNH is not committed to success - academically or athletically. The funding problem Souza is dealing with is hitting the entire school. Full stop.

Mike explained very clearly just how far behind UNH is. There’s no commitment AT ALL to success. UNH hockey is precisely where it should be .


Love this. But the key question I have in response: what makes you think UNH sees the performance of the hockey team as a problem? The program is performing precisely to the level of its institutional support. This is what should worry fans the most. And if the institution doesn’t see it as a problem, especially in light of the devastating problems UNH is experiencing elsewhere on campus, things aren’t going to change unless outside forces in Concord intervene.

This is not a problem FoH EVER had to deal with. It’s far more serious. In the FoH days UNH was in much better shape as an institution.

Disagree. The U's definition of success differs from that of many individuals. More true athletically than academically.

Agree. I think the U does see performance of the men's hockey program as a problem but it is far down on the list of problems.

 

[Chuck Murray]

The Whitt is enormously expensive to operate. The only reason it stays open for hockey is because hockey attendance historically pays the bills. When the team struggles and attendance drops, the arena becomes a cost center instead of a revenue generator. That’s not a philosophical issue—it’s a budgetary one.

Not sure if your aware of this but the Whit was expected to be the Basketball arena as well and was for only one season, but it isn’t, because basketball attendance has never come close to covering the cost of opening the Whitt. If hockey ever stops generating enough revenue to justify the building, UNH wouldn’t be able to open it. That’s the reality.

So even if the institution is dealing with bigger problems elsewhere—and it absolutely is—they can’t just shrug at hockey underperforming. The program isn’t just another team; it’s the only thing keeping a major campus facility financially viable. That alone makes losing a problem they can’t afford to ignore.

Spot on. And yes, I'm one on here who remembers UNH Hoops' brief flirtation with regular tenancy at The Whitt. They inherited the hoops stanchions (sp?) from the recently deserted/demolished original Boston Gardens, and they also inherited a rarely competitive team from the Gib Chapman era, which banged out the Lundholm Gym in prior seasons with NH-bred players like Scott Drapeau, Eric Montanari and Matt Alosa. The best UNH teams in the program's history.

They even had some of the Women's Hoops games at the arena when the Men's team were tenants. But since financial reality kicked Hoops back to their old Lundholm digs, IIRC the only Hoops games back at The Whitt were when Concord's Matt "Red Rocket" Bonner took his nationally-ranked Florida Gators into the building and selling it out. But they haven't been back playing across the street (sans Bonner) as originally planned for almost 30 years now.

And before someone mutters another excuse about "lack of resources" being the cause of poor performance, I have two words for you - Marc Hubbard.

 

[TheGrouchyCat]

I have been in the President’s box with both of them at games and I can assure you that neither would admit in public that the men’s hockey team is in an untenable state akin to a dumpster fire.

That's an issue. First step of recovery is admitting there is a problem.

 

[TwoStep93]

Lol, you must think you are in North Dakota.

Wyoming but close enough

 

[Darius]

That's an issue. First step of recovery is admitting there is a problem.

Problem ≠ untenable state akin to a dumpster fire.

 

[Chuck Murray]

I've been fighting for my life in the Maine thread that finishing 5th, winning 18 games, can't be considered a disaster. McMahon pretty clearly tiered out the investment in the conference to a top level of BC, BU, UConn, and Providence; a middle level of Maine, Lowell, Northeastern, and UMass; and a bottom level of UNH, UVM, and Merrimack.

It's a bit chicken or egg, as you guys mention, win more games, more money flows in from tickets and concessions and advertising. But I'm not sure that facilities were the right decisions for UMaine and UNH's investments. You can just pay the kids now. Sure, if you are offering Recruit A roughly the same amount of money as a school that does not have good facilities, maybe that sways him. But if Maine is telling a kid "maybe we can get you $5,000" and Providence is waiving around $20,000, where is he gonna go? He'll suffer through playing at Schneider instead of the shiny upgraded Alfond.

And, lo and behold, 3 of those 4 highest spending programs in the league are hosting home playoff games. UMass did snake BU's spot. And Merrimack snuck ahead of Lowell for 8th. But the tiers largely held.

None of this is to weigh in on if you've got a bigger Sousa problem than an admin problem. That's none of my business. But I do think that whoever coaches a Hockey East team that is 9th, 10th, or 11th in resources is going to have to pull off an absolute miracle to have a season successful enough to fill 5,000 seats.

By all accounts, UMaine was in the bottom (3rd) tier of HEA resources-wise until they hired Ben Barr. Barr didn't pull off a miracle, he applied all of his plentiful coaching skills and recruiting abilities to slowly but surely drag UMaine out of its end stage Gendron-era dry rot into a program that's now a regular winner once again, has made multiple trips to Boston and the national tourney, and won a Hockey East title last season. So this season was a fall-back ... whatever, success over the long run isn't always a straight-line proposition, there are sometimes bumps along the way in the journey back to relevancy. UMaine is on the right track with Barr. And notably for our discussion here ... it was Barr's success that dragged resources along afterwards, not the other way around. Simple and incontrovertible.

I also find the uber shallow description of recruits having these short-sighted "tiebreaker" focuses on slight margins of short-term NIL and marginal edges with facilities related "bells and whistles". In the end, in most cases, these D-1 recruits are looking FAR beyond whether their choice of program has a nicer locker room or training facilities ... they are looking to the coaching staff for their abilities to develop players into professionals capable of making much bigger checks for longer periods of time, whether that be in the NHL, AHL or in the elite Euro leagues. They also want their coaches to be able to provide a superior competitive experience, where your selected program has chances to win things. This latter point is especially important with CHL players, who mostly have seen their NHL options passing them by already. Unfortunately, the current UNH staff cannot sell recruits on either of those issues. Zero NHL footprint, and negligible AHL and elite Euro footprints. And competitive hardware experiences are a dim dot on a fading horizon.

 

[unofan]

We will see if the Q does not win their next two games in the ECAC quarters and then the conference championship, which could limit the ECAC to two slots in the NCAAs.

Lol, no. If anything, the ECAC is closer to 4 bids than 2.

Quinnipiac is a lock regardless.
Dartmouth is a lock with a win or a tOSU loss.
Cornell is a lock with a tOSU loss.

But most importantly, Cornell and Dartmouth 1) can't both fall out, and 2) can only fall out if someone else wins the ECAC to steal a bid, meaning the conference itself breaks even.

 

[FlagUp17]

Put together an outline. Don't invest more than an hour or two, but make it professional. No guarantees but I'm pretty sure I can find out if substantial work on a "solid pitch" would be welcomed.

I can work on this. Appreciate your help too!

For those who were around in the FoH days, I’m not sure if records were kept in terms of financials (how much money raised, operating budget, etc) but if someone has access to those numbers that would help with this process, and I can include it in the document I put together.

I’ll see what I can find online as well.

 

[Chuck Murray]

I'm going to have to see a lot more "evidence" of a lack of resources than the fact that:
* UNH does not have a third $75K coach (while referencing that the coaches have a budget to be on the road recruiting for longer periods, which in the past has also been cited as a lack of budget)
* Not mentioning the bigger investments UNH has made to fix its disadvantages, including the jumbletron, shortening the rink, and now the lockerrooms. Either these big investment items were wasted, or UNH has actually provided Coach Souza with millions in resources to "fix" what he believed the problems to be.
* I see no evidence that nowadays one can identify the hotshot recruits any better than 11 years ago when Souza was hired to lead recruiting and put his stamp on the program. I'd argue that hotshots are less important today, with the CHL pool allowing you to see what 20 year olds are out there.
* As noted in the article, UNH had deeper resources 11 years ago when Coach Souza was hired. So, is Coach Souza's decade long lack of success the result, or the cause of the lack of resources?

On that last point, the unwillingness of some to even consider a change -- "let's not fix anything unless we can fix what we think the problem is" -- is baffling.
You could argue whether Coach Souza was viewed in the hockey community as a hotshot "he's going places and I want to play for him" 11 yers ago. But, at a certain point, perception is reality. No recruit, after 11 years, is going to look at Coach Souza and say "I'm going to the Garden for the playoffs."

Welcome back, 'Watcher ... and thank you for cogently asking the questions that the backers of the current coaching staff studiously continue to avoid. I'll point out as a reminder to the group, you were early (earliest?) on the boat that Souza was not sufficiently experienced or qualified, and the transition that brought him into the program was poorly conceived. Ditto for Dan. I've migrated in this direction only after watching some of the ineptitude unfold, and by that time a lot of structural damage had already been done to the program. We now literally have over a decade of the Souza Experience to draw conclusions from, and no matter what fixes have been added into the program (Jumbotron, shrunken rink, etc.) the program was still languishing at or near the bottom of Hockey East. This past season was another legit shot at a reboot - CHL players - which MS7 invested heavily in. If he was even a competent D-1 head coach, given that this was a down year for the league, a mid-table finish and a legit shot at Boston were realistic expectations, for sure. Results? Not even close.

At worst, you have two problems, and solving one won't solve the second. But, it also may be that solving the first does solve the second. My brother in law likes to quote the "we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas" line. Sticking with a proven unsuccessful coach rather than giving someone else a chance certainly seems to capture UNH's approach to solving its hockey problem.

As to the argument that you cannot find a good replacement without resources, any good administrator would find out if that is true -- what resources will someone new demand/ require?

And if the answer truly is, as Mr. McMahon anecdotally offers, that UNH just lacks resources to compete in HE, then is not the answer to drop down to the ECAC or AHA? I would like to see those apologizing for the past decade answer that question. If the problem is insurmountable, what is your plan?

The idea that a highly competent replacement isn't available and viable is almost laughable. With very few exceptions, there is a starting point where a list of candidates could easily be drawn from current D-1 assistant coaches, supplemented by long term pro scouts who may have worked as assistants in the AHL or even the NHL in their pasts. Probably every single one of these people have been working towards an opportunity at higher compensation as someone leading a D-1 program, if not eventually higher. And most of those potential candidates are probably making less than what UNH is paying Coach Souza now.

In another D-1 sport, it wasn't all that long ago that a guy named Curt Cignetti ("Google me - I win") was toiling at places like Elon and JMU ...

And from a overall perspective, I'm baffled by the why there is not an obvious answer. If Coach Souza is a good fundraiser, securing millions from DiLorenzo, that is a great gift. Northeastern had Coach Madigan have a role in its athletic fundraising. Why not create a position for Souza to keep getting funds for a lockerroom, but why does that have to be tied to Souza also coaching? Did the car dealer condition his gift on a lifetime Souza appointment? And is Souza unwilling to advocate for the car dealer giving the money to fund a different coach? Does Souza even want to keep doing this when internally he must know there are better options for UNH? What is the sticking point to moving Souza and his salary into a fundraising role? Shouldn't Souza be allowed to fail upwards even more into administration, and earn a pension, or is his fundraising only a means to force UNH to keep him in a job so he can "prove" that he's a good coach (all facts to the contrary be damned)? I'm sure that someone that loves UNH as much would not tie fundraising to a personal goal.

Very good (and very pointed) questions, all of which any interviewer worth their salt would put directly to MS7 to force him to confront his situation, which right now looks to me very much like the entitled adult who wants his cake, and to eat it too. TDL is also an active GOP candidate for US Congress right now, and if this current UNH Hockey situation persists much longer, I would relish the opportunity to ask him in public if his generosity to UNH Hockey is indeed tied to some misguided sponsorship of MS7 as an unsuccessful coach for some finite period. But all in all, I agree with the idea that the obvious solution is to create a position for Souza as a fundraiser, and I've mentioned that possibility on here intermittently in the past. That suddenly changes the optics of this bizarre "sponsorship of the incompetent coach" scenario, and suddenly TDL is just another donor, Souza is just another faceless admin, and someone more qualified and ambitious steps in (Andy Jones of Bentley?), fans are re-energized, and everyone is in a better situation.

My fear is that this "Souza is attached to the DiLorenzo donation" narrative is a self-serving construct, as we've seen no such PR skills from Coach arising from his day job activities. So with his benefactor on the campaign trail increasingly over the next 6 (possibly 8) months, and with politics being an inherently dirty game ... how long before folks start poking/prodding on this curious anti-competitive arrangement, and how much of a stomach does TDL have for it before the false narrative collapses? This project has already been delayed by a year or two ... I wouldn't be shocked or even surprised if there is another delay ...

 

[Chuck Murray]

I can work on this. Appreciate your help too!

For those who were around in the FoH days, I’m not sure if records were kept in terms of financials (how much money raised, operating budget, etc) but if someone has access to those numbers that would help with this process, and I can include it in the document I put together.

I’ll see what I can find online as well.

Friends of UNH Hockey

Friends of UNH Hockey. 549 likes. The Friends is the largest athletic booster organization at the University of New Hampshire and one of the most successful in college hockey....

www.facebook.com

I believe Bruce Hardenbrook (sp?) used to run the show, and IIRC he is a local. e.cat might have more info too? Good luck!!

 

[HockeyRef]

I can work on this. Appreciate your help too!

For those who were around in the FoH days, I’m not sure if records were kept in terms of financials (how much money raised, operating budget, etc) but if someone has access to those numbers that would help with this process, and I can include it in the document I put together.

I’ll see what I can find online as

I can work on this. Appreciate your help too!

For those who were around in the FoH days, I’m not sure if records were kept in terms of financials (how much money raised, operating budget, etc) but if someone has access to those numbers that would help with this process, and I can include it in the document I put together.

I’ll see what I can find online as well.

Check your inbox..

 

[FlagUp17]

Friends of UNH Hockey

Friends of UNH Hockey. 549 likes. The Friends is the largest athletic booster organization at the University of New Hampshire and one of the most successful in college hockey....

www.facebook.com

I believe Bruce Hardenbrook (sp?) used to run the show, and IIRC he is a local. e.cat might have more info too? Good luck!!

Thanks Chuck and HR!

If anyone else has any info they want to share that would be appreciated! It looks like the FoH used to have a newsletter that ended in 2003? I’ll request info from the university to get more info on this.

I’ll try to find/reach out to Bruce Hardenbrook as well. If anyone has his contact info that would help expedite things!

Appreciate everyone’s help and support with this!

 

[Snively65]

Lol, no. If anything, the ECAC is closer to 4 bids than 2.

Quinnipiac is a lock regardless.
Dartmouth is a lock with a win or a tOSU loss.
Cornell is a lock with a tOSU loss.

But most importantly, Cornell and Dartmouth 1) can't both fall out, and 2) can only fall out if someone else wins the ECAC to steal a bid, meaning the conference itself breaks even.

Ok, so 3 bids is better than 1 or 2 in four of the last five years for ECAC.

 

[HockeyRef]

Welp UNH is sort of kind of going to the Garden with UConn beating BU today.

2nd year in a row..good luck TyMuz! And I would be remiss not to say the same to Ryan Conmy

Sigh when you choose to live vicariously through others

 

[Felger]

when you choose to live vicariously through others

Not sure if it is living vicariously but LMAO watching Quinnipiac surrender two shorthanded goals within less than a minute on their way to elimination