UNH- How Far West Do We Go?

[Darius]

I gave up my season tickets three years back. At first, I would watch on TV, and eventually that became too frustrating. Now I'll occasionally check scores on the USCHO app. It's amazing how much my winters have opened up, and how much enjoyment I find in doing other things, rather than watching a program the University can give two sh!tz about.

Except the very last part. I believe the U gives more than two.

 

[Darius]

Nope never said that. Said UNH team didn’t like him. Might want to fact check before you post. He had one good game which should be expected every game since he’s getting paid to play there. Where was he when BC lost to Vermont last weekend 6-1?

Assisting on the 1

 

[JB]

The students seemed to start to do this a few weeks ago with “fire Souza” chants (again, a bit crass, but I imagine people in high places noticed this, and did not take lightly to it).

Students have chanted that 2 of the last 3 home games.

 

[JB]

Nope never said that. Said UNH team didn’t like him. Might want to fact check before you post. He had one good game which should be expected every game since he’s getting paid to play there. Where was he when BC lost to Vermont last weekend 6-1?

DON'T FEED THE TROLL

 

[2013hockeyfan]

Nope never said that. Said UNH team didn’t like him. Might want to fact check before you post. He had one good game which should be expected every game since he’s getting paid to play there. Where was he when BC lost to Vermont last weekend 6-1?

Seems a bit silly to compare a Beanpot final, the biggest event on the college hockey calendar during the regular season, to a random HE matchup (and one where he tallied on the score sheet).

The kid is having a nice season in Chestnut Hill and the attitude of the majority of this board toward him remains very strange and frankly embarrassing.

As to him being disliked in Durham, I can think of a number of reasons someone who expects to win might not be well liked on a 13-16 team.

 

[HockeyRef]

Nice work putting this together, JB!

As we have talked about before, you don’t even need to look much further than Barr at Maine, Carvel at UMA, early Bazin at UML to see recent examples of guys in HE who have quickly turned things around for a program, leading to national success (in Carvels case, even a national title).

The UMA example I think is most striking. UMA was utterly abysmal for years before Carvel. They hired Carvel who was showing great strides at turning things around at St. Lawrence. After a tough first year at UMA, he QUICKLY got them to national prominence. Yes Makar certainly helped, but hey Carvel sold the program to him, didn’t he? UMA is a school in “cow country” (as some will also say is the same with UNH). They are a state school, so I presume similar available resources. And the coach was able to get them to the top of the mountain, and fast!

Could Jones follow a “similar” trajectory if he ends up in Durham?

As per Makar at the Flagship wasnt he in place before Carvel and Co came on board?

 

[FlagUp17]

Students have chanted that 2 of the last 3 home games.

Ah. I presume the BC and PU games? I knew it happened at BC. I didn’t hear it during the feed for the PC game.

Outside of the pep band and the very dedicated Cat Pack crew, I wouldn’t be surprised if you start to see the student section looking a bit more barren if the losing continues. It certainly cleared out FAST during the 3rd period of the PC game.

It’s been a number of years since I was a student - are the tickets still free for students as long as they pick them up in advance? That was the case when I was there, but I was not sure if (due to poor results, lost revenue, etc) the school now asks students to pay a bit to go to the games?

 

[emily422]

Seems a bit silly to compare a Beanpot final, the biggest event on the college hockey calendar during the regular season, to a random HE matchup (and one where he tallied on the score sheet).

The kid is having a nice season in Chestnut Hill and the attitude of the majority of this board toward him remains very strange and frankly embarrassing.

As to him being disliked in Durham, I can think of a number of reasons someone who expects to win might not be well liked on a 13-16 team.

You think none of the other players want to win?

 

[FlagUp17]

As per Makar at the Flagship wasnt he in place before Carvel and Co came on board?

I’m not sure on this one. But either way, even if he was in the fold beforehand, he likely could have chosen “greener pastures” once the coaching change was announced. This happens a lot across college sports where kids jump ship when the coach that recruited them gets the axe.

If he was in place beforehand, Carvel probably went above and beyond to convince him to stay, knowing Makar was a true blue chip prospect who couldn’t be lost. Whatever he said was able to convince Makar, and the rest is history as they say…

Meanwhile, UNH has lost many a blue chip prospects in the Souza era. Two that come to mind are Commesso and Stutzle (who may not be the best comparator, as he never went to college) but I digress…

Souza probably can’t as easily pull the “I’m new, just see what I can do” card like Carvel may have with Makar. The growing body of evidence of poor player development under Souza likely does not go unnoticed amongst the 4-5 star recruits…

 

[2013hockeyfan]

You think none of the other players want to win?

Wasn't intending to suggest that, but I can see my wording implied it. More trying to point out that the narrative that he is some sort of malcontent, as implied by you and others, may be more a byproduct of bad feelings from a deeply struggling program. People dislike each other a lot more on teams that lose.

 

[JB]

Seems a bit silly to compare a Beanpot final, the biggest event on the college hockey calendar during the regular season, to a random HE matchup (and one where he tallied on the score sheet).

The kid is having a nice season in Chestnut Hill and the attitude of the majority of this board toward him remains very strange and frankly embarrassing.

As to him being disliked in Durham, I can think of a number of reasons someone who expects to win might not be well liked on a 13-16 team.

I noted this before, I had heard there was some friction and he might not be well liked. I really do wish him well. If UNH wasn't the right fit, the world is now one where it is easier for a student to find a new fit. We can be disappointed and should still wish that student well.

As to why there was friction - I hope all these guys all want to win and are fairly cranky because losing sucks. If they like losing, UNH has a serious recruiting problem. That is a brew for friction between teammates and it amplifies everything. One would hope that good coaching would help the team through this frustration. That coaching would be able to paint a picture of the future and keep talented players (and Conmy is talented) in the fold. Otherwise there was a pile of roster turnover last year to this, I am guessing there were a bunch of unhappy campers in that looker room (sadly I expect the same in this locker room).

 

[Jellsville USA]

While I agree I think paper bags would be a bit over the top, I can understand the sentiment with trying to “send a message” to the school that the current product (again, going back for multiple years) is unacceptable for us fans. The students seemed to start to do this a few weeks ago with “fire Souza” chants (again, a bit crass, but I imagine people in high places noticed this, and did not take lightly to it).

Outside of simply boycotting games, we have largely lost our ability to communicate directly with the team with the loss of FoH. I’m not sure writing emails/letters to the AD will reverberate much.

Perhaps there are other ways we can voice our displeasure. I’d be curious to see/hear what others think?

Just for the record Flag, I very much enjoy your contributions to this page. I have been following this team since the Snively arena days and first on with season tickets at the Whit. I remember waiting in line for hours to get Hockey East Tournament tickets before they were an online click. I enjoyed the winning and special moments. At the end of the day, we have never been able to celebrate being the last team standing, so, disappointment has been part of being a UNH fan for the entirety. In my older years it has become less about winning the National Championship and more about rooting for the boys through thick and thin (mostly thin lately). More importantly, however, my wife and I enjoy the game and the experience. We like to go to the games early and park across the street (a very nice season tix value add-on). We like to watch the kids warm up and grab a bite to eat. We walk around and get in our steps. We take our girls and their boyfriends to a handful of games, or they ask for our seats (they do not seem to care about who wins but enjoy the free tix ). To us the Whit is a special place. We travel around to different arenas, as well. We love college hockey and UNH gives us a reason to root. We are fans of the sport, so getting bent out of shape over not winning currently would get in the way of the experience for us. I am hopeful that things will turn around and we will win more games from year to year. I hate to see the kids' faces after they lose, but losing is very much a part of the sports experience. Hell, the Patriots got to the Superbowl, but it was hardly worth the outcome. I am not advocating for losing for certain, but I still enjoy going and the thought of people wearing brown paper bags is disheartening to me. It is obvious that the UNH hockey experience impacts many. How many losing teams have 100 pages of fan forum?

 

[JB]

It’s been a number of years since I was a student - are the tickets still free for students as long as they pick them up in advance? That was the case when I was there, but I was not sure if (due to poor results, lost revenue, etc) the school now asks students to pay a bit to go to the games?

Student tickets are still "free"... remember they are paid for in the mandatory athletic fee. Right now UNH has an entire end (~1000 seats) reserved for "student tickets". Contractually they only need to hold 300 plus ~200 to fit the band in behind them. So in sellout games the University can get ~440 seats in that end to sell. That hasn't happened in years. Students used to get in line hours before the ticket office opened to get one of the 300-500 seats for big games, now the team hands them out on campus, in dorms or dining halls.

 

[JB]

the thought of people wearing brown paper bags is disheartening to me.

Me too, and I suggested it, mostly in guest. I will admit to either a single clap (the rest implied) or a miss my own hands clap when the coach is announced every game.

How else do you get the University to wake up?

Which is worse a paper bag in protest, or just walking away like most have?

 

[FlagUp17]

Just for the record Flag, I very much enjoy your contributions to this page. I have been following this team since the Snively arena days and first on with season tickets at the Whit. I remember waiting in line for hours to get Hockey East Tournament tickets before they were an online click. I enjoyed the winning and special moments. At the end of the day, we have never been able to celebrate being the last team standing, so, disappointment has been part of being a UNH fan for the entirety. In my older years it has become less about winning the National Championship and more about rooting for the boys through thick and thin (mostly thin lately). More importantly, however, my wife and I enjoy the game and the experience. We like to go to the games early and park across the street (a very nice season tix value add-on). We like to watch the kids warm up and grab a bite to eat. We walk around and get in our steps. We take our girls and their boyfriends to a handful of games, or they ask for our seats (they do not seem to care about who wins but enjoy the free tix ). To us the Whit is a special place. We travel around to different arenas, as well. We love college hockey and UNH gives us a reason to root. We are fans of the sport, so getting bent out of shape over not winning currently would get in the way of the experience for us. I am hopeful that things will turn around and we will win more games from year to year. I hate to see the kids' faces after they lose, but losing is very much a part of the sports experience. Hell, the Patriots got to the Superbowl, but it was hardly worth the outcome. I am not advocating for losing for certain, but I still enjoy going and the thought of people wearing brown paper bags is disheartening to me. It is obvious that the UNH hockey experience impacts many. How many losing teams have 100 pages of fan forum?

I appreciate your kind words Jellsville. I believe I can relate to you in being a fair bit of an optimist when it comes to many of these games. I just don’t have it in me to hope for our guys to lose, or predict a continuing losing streak to instigate change. I apologize if at any point my thoughts came across that way.

And I agree the love for this program still percolates across many generations, and speaks to the continued chatter on this board despite the subpar results. I do worry though that with continuing poor showings year after year, the long-term health of the hockey program fandom will begin to wane. Just as with any business, church, program, etc. if you are not adequately recruiting younger folks, the organization will slowly die. There will always be the diehards like most of us here who will follow them even if they go 1-29 in a given season. But how many new fans are gonna jump on a slowly sinking ship? Even kids who go to UNH now will maybe enjoy a few games when they are here, but as soon as they leave campus they probably won’t think twice about going to a game again due to bad results etc.

Just my 2 cents. Big weekend upcoming against BU (as all HE weekends are). Hopefully they can catch them on their heels and at least win in the Blue out BU game.

 

[TheGrouchyCat]

Want to make clear my post was not at all in defense of Souza. Remains outrageous that he was granted an extension off one not-bad season. Incredible that Souza's high water mark was a 6th place finish in the conference

Let's just hope the connections that MS7 has don't push for his extension(s) in perpetuity in pursuit of vesting a 20 year pension as a state employee.

 

[HockeyRef]

I’m not sure on this one. But either way, even if he was in the fold beforehand, he likely could have chosen “greener pastures” once the coaching change was announced. This happens a lot across college sports where kids jump ship when the coach that recruited them gets the axe.

If he was in place beforehand, Carvel probably went above and beyond to convince him to stay, knowing Makar was a true blue chip prospect who couldn’t be lost. Whatever he said was able to convince Makar, and the rest is history as they say…

Meanwhile, UNH has lost many a blue chip prospects in the Souza era. Two that come to mind are Commesso and Stutzle (who may not be the best comparator, as he never went to college) but I digress…

Souza probably can’t as easily pull the “I’m new, just see what I can do” card like Carvel may have with Makar. The growing body of evidence of poor player development under Souza likely does not go unnoticed amongst the 4-5 star recruits…

Also...Greg Carvel was an established HC who as I've recounted before told UMass brass he wasnt coming unless he could bring his assistants..He had a vision for the Minutemen and molded a successful program. Now he has envious facilities to show for it.

Believe it took him 5 seasons to win his NC? Plus his HE championship in short order. Helps to have a Makar but his teams that won those were excellent. Despite their loss the other night they are coming on after a sluggish start.

 

[Chuck Murray]

I gave up my season tickets three years back. At first, I would watch on TV, and eventually that became too frustrating. Now I'll occasionally check scores on the USCHO app. It's amazing how much my winters have opened up, and how much enjoyment I find in doing other things, rather than watching a program the University can give two sh!tz about.

... and thus in less than a generation, UNH Hockey goes from the hottest ticket in the state, with thousands of folks waiting patiently in line for table scraps, to an absolute afterthought. No more sellouts ... no more wait list ... no more Friends of Hockey ... no fawning media ... a lost generation of potential UNH fans, either scattered to the wind or blissfully unaware of what was once arguably the best fan experience in all of Northern New England, right in their back yard. Sad.

And for every Dale or Greg or Karen or Josh or Matt or Ernie (RIP) who posted on here about walking away due to the U's ambivalence, there are dozens if not hundreds who simply disappear in silence. You only notice when they arrive as an empty seat where there once had only been filled seats.

I went to my first Bentley game (and I'm an alum) last March in Manch with Snives, and they almost beat BC with all the chips in the middle of the table. Looks like Bentley might be making the really big tourney (touch wood) again this Spring. Other well-known folks on this board are exploring this and other options.

If you don't take care of your customer and show 'em they're valued, then someone else surely will. This is not a cold political calculation, as some here would have you believe. Life is too short to invest time, money and emotions into something that just can't be bothered to reciprocate, i.e. put a competitive team on the ice.

Our "new" AD isn't new anymore. The current extension was her idea. It's been an absolute fail, right out of the gate. No more hiding. It's on you now, AD Rich ...

 

[Jack Hanson]

Also...Greg Carvel was an established HC who as I've recounted before told UMass brass he wasnt coming unless he could bring his assistants..He had a vision for the Minutemen and molded a successful program. Now he has envious facilities to show for it.

Believe it took him 5 seasons to win his NC? Plus his HE championship in short order. Helps to have a Makar but his teams that won those were excellent. Despite their loss the other night they are coming on after a sluggish start.

You guys seem a little fuzzy on your Flagship history. Not you Ref, but a couple of your compadres. I’m just too lazy myself to backtrack to the confused.

First up, Micheletto’s assistant recruited Makar. Carvel did indeed convince him to stick around, but Makar was a standup guy and kept his word.

Second, Makar was in the NHL before either of the HEA championships and the NC. Makar didn’t hurt as far as attracting other recruits but actually the recruiting class he was part of helped convince him to stay.

 

[FlagUp17]

You guys seem a little fuzzy on your Flagship history. Not you Ref, but a couple of your compadres. I’m just too lazy myself to backtrack to the confused.

First up, Micheletto’s assistant recruited Makar. Carvel did indeed convince him to stick around, but Makar was a standup guy and kept his word.

Second, Makar was in the NHL before either of the HEA championships and the NC. Makar didn’t hurt as far as attracting other recruits but actually the recruiting class he was part of helped convince him to stay.

Thanks for providing more background detail on this! I apologize for being a bit fuzzy on this myself.

Correct me if I’m wrong though, was he still on the runner up team in 2019 (the year he won the Hobey)? They didn’t win the HEA tournament they year, but I think they won the regular season title right?