UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

[e.cat]

As I said, it's the quality of the players, not the size of the ice surface. I'm telling you, if they actually do this, it's going to make the arena and the rink look like a joke and, if anything, be a detriment to recruiting. It is beyond incredulous how the UNH administration's view of the hockey program has changed in the last 30 years. To think, in 1992 the UNH Board of Trustees voted to float bonds to build a 6,000 seat state of the art arena, built to the specifications of the athletic department and coaching staff's desires. It opened to rave reviews in November, 1995, with full page spreads on how wonderful the arena would be, not only for the hockey program, but the Seacoast and New Hampshire economy in general. The arena sold out more often that not for the next 10-15 years as UNH found continued success with Hockey East championships and NCAA appearances. Then, somewhere around 2012, everything changed. Whatever the overall athletic budget was, more and more of it seemed to be spent on football, more and more of the fundraising including the bogus librarian epiphany. The FOH were kicked to the curb and now we have this foolish venture. I'm telling you again, it will make UNH the laughing stock of the league.

+1

 

[Ned Braden]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

With all your chatter about UNH potentially re-sizing the ice surface, was wondering if there was a reason you are all aware of as to why they made it that large in the first place.

Bad timing. Big sheets were all the rage and most new college arenas would have them (or so they thought).

 

[e.cat]

2nd lowest goal scoring in league play, just ahead of Vermont, and 9th place. Clearly the rink is the issue.
Hockey East Men - 2019-2020 Standings
Conference Only Overall
Pts GP W L T Win% GF- GA GP W L T Win% GF- GA
1 Boston College 32 22 16- 6- 0 .727 88- 44 32 23- 8- 1 .734 131- 67
2 Massachusetts 28 23 13- 8- 2 .609 68- 49 33 20-11- 2 .636 106- 67
3 UMass Lowell 27 23 11- 7- 5 .587 57- 59 33 17-10- 6 .606 87- 78
4 UConn 26 23 12- 9- 2 .565 70- 72 33 15-14- 4 .515 101-103
5 Maine 25 23 11- 9- 3 .543 55- 56 33 17-11- 5 .591 88- 75
6 Boston University 23 22 9- 8- 5 .523 65- 62 32 12-12- 8 .500 99- 96
Providence 23 23 10-10- 3 .500 70- 62 33 16-11- 6 .576 102- 77
8 Northeastern 21 22 10-11- 1 .477 64- 67 32 17-12- 3 .578 96- 88
9 New Hampshire 20 22 9-11- 2 .455 50- 64 32 15-14- 3 .516 87- 92
10 Merrimack 17 24 7-14- 3 .354 63- 77 34 9-22- 3 .309 85-123
11 Vermont 8 23 2-17- 4 .174 44- 82 33 5-22- 6 .242 59- 99

2018-19
8th place, 8th place in goals
2017-18
11th place, last in goals
2016-17
10th place, 4th!!!! in league scoring (9th in GA)
2015-16
10th place, 7th in goals

generally, the scoring skill has decreased since 2015, particularly after Tyler Kelleher/Poturalski graduated. The recruiting hole during the vaunted Marty Scarano "transition" from 2015-2018 is noticeable. So, Marty has to pass the buck to the bad old arena. I wonder if Jim Dean asks him about the Jumbotron, or if the librarian liked sitting rinkside.

Incredulous!(Scarano)

 

[Snively65]

Do tell. I'm thinking we get 3 this weekend. (goals that is, not points)

Yes, the 2.5 over/under is goals as I wrote, not points. See 'watcher's lengthy post for hints.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

I can tell them a good recruiter for $100K per year would remedy the problem in a fraction of the cost.

 

[deltabravo62]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

So in the last thread I told the administration regarding the ice surface "Don't f*&k it up, bud"... Well, with this new "plan" you are about to f*&k it up, bud...

 

[acs64]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

Wouldnt changing rink size effect the type of skaters they'd be looking for? Seems like they might need to go bigger and not quicker if they changed to a smaller rink. Personally I think the speed game adds more to college hockey and the resultant atmosphere than slower more physical style. I know I always preferred an upbeat style of play at Maine to the alternative. And, I would think there would be more gifted skaters capable of playing that style than the prototypical pro players. Yeah.....I think you've got some advantage already in the big sheet....they just might screw that up.

 

[JB]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

I can tell them a good recruiter for $100K per year would remedy the problem in a fraction of the cost.

At $200k or even $300k for a good recruiter you would remedy the problem at a fraction of the cost.

HOWEVER - first you must believe that recruiting is the problem. You must believe that for all the stuff that isn't exactly the way you want it, UNH is still a fantastic place to play. That although it isn't North Dakota's palace there are still wonderful player amenities that are better than a good chunk of NCAA schools. At that point go out and sell what you have, not against what you wished you had.

 

[Greg Ambrose]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

With all your chatter about UNH potentially re-sizing the ice surface, was wondering if there was a reason you are all aware of as to why they made it that large in the first place.

In the early nineties, two things were in play. First, a few of the teams that had continued success, think Minnesota and Colorado College (yes CC used to be successful) had big sheets and recruited players who could make full use of them. UNH had always recruited speed over guys who could bull rush, going back to the Charlie Holt days. The program, from the time it turned D1 in the last sixties, was always known as one that was kind of high octane. Most of the time they couldn't defend much, but man they could score. When Umile became head coach in 1990, he was intent on following that tradition. When the idea for improving the hockey facility first germinated, Umile was actually thinking that the most he could ask for was the UVM model, where they would knock out the wall at the far end of Snively, put more stands in, maybe some sort of hospitality room for the FOH and that would be it. But then Terry Morton, a member of the UNH of Board of Trustees and, just as important, from Wisconsin, urged Umile and the athletic department to think big. No partial fixes, but a new facility with all the potential it could provide. Morton's leadership pushed it through and the rest is history. I can't tell you how thrilled I was the first time I attended a game there, a 6-5 OT victory over BU in November, 1995. Anyway, the Whit included the big sheet because, as I said before, UNH was always a speed team. From his first years as coach Umile recruited it and first hit the jackpot with Boguniecki and Nolan who entered in the fall of 1993. Then, of course, came Mowers, Nickulas, Krog, Haydar, Collins, Saviano, and the rest. Speed and quality is tough to beat, and for more than a decade, UNH had it. Then they didn't, for a couple of reasons that would take up another whole thread. Let's just say that it is still possible to field a quality program on the big sheet and a crap one on a small sheet. We are going to find that out soon enough.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

Sorry for this lame question but...is the main reason the rink needs to shrink because of the refrigeration system? They cant replace it without pulling the dimensions in?

I'm with Greg...show the fans what it's going to look like for their seat. Cant wait to see all the unsupervised kids that are going to race up and down the sides like they do at one school I will not publicly name....

 

[bakchk20]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

First, I’ve always liked sitting down near ice level. When I was a student, I stood in the corner at the scoreboard end of Snively. In those chain link days you could hear just about everything said on the ice and almost feel like you were part of the action when UNH was racing into the zone or setting up on a PP (back when UNH actually knew how to score on one). When I got season tickets at the Whit, they were fourth row, on the blue line, section 104. I was sitting right there when Ben Guite blasted Mark Mowers into the glass, knocking him unconscious. I could hear his teammate Tom Nolan, rushing over, saying “Mark, you okay, you okay” and waving frantically for the trainers to get on the ice. Being that close back in the glory days it was a wonder to watch the skills of those guys close up and I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

As for the hockey end of things, I can guarantee you that those clamoring for a narrower sheet are doing so solely based on feel, anecdotal observations and certainly without hard statistical evidence. You say you like the narrower sheet where it takes a high skill set to create and execute and, I assume score. Hello! Scoring in college hockey is at an abysmal low right now and you’re an advocate of making it even more difficult to get on the board? Now I’m sure from the way you talk that you are some sort of hockey savant, but 90% of those attending a college game are not. If they attend an endless trail of games with 2-1, 1-0, 3-2 finals, with both teams unable to even create scoring chances, how often do you think they will come back? College hockey attendance is down almost everywhere. The reasons are myriad, but making it even more difficult to score is not going to help things. Hope you agree.

Savant, eh?! Ha! Greg, you flatter me so...!

You want more scoring? Increase the size of the net... Or, recruit better players. I'm all for that as the PRIMARY cause for the decline to mediorcrity, so we agree on something, friend...

 

[JAB]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

In the early nineties, two things were in play. First, a few of the teams that had continued success, think Minnesota and Colorado College (yes CC used to be successful) had big sheets and recruited players who could make full use of them. UNH had always recruited speed over guys who could bull rush, going back to the Charlie Holt days. The program, from the time it turned D1 in the last sixties, was always known as one that was kind of high octane. Most of the time they couldn't defend much, but man they could score. When Umile became head coach in 1990, he was intent on following that tradition. When the idea for improving the hockey facility first germinated, Umile was actually thinking that the most he could ask for was the UVM model, where they would knock out the wall at the far end of Snively, put more stands in, maybe some sort of hospitality room for the FOH and that would be it. But then Terry Morton, a member of the UNH of Board of Trustees and, just as important, from Wisconsin, urged Umile and the athletic department to think big. No partial fixes, but a new facility with all the potential it could provide. Morton's leadership pushed it through and the rest is history. I can't tell you how thrilled I was the first time I attended a game there, a 6-5 OT victory over BU in November, 1995. Anyway, the Whit included the big sheet because, as I said before, UNH was always a speed team. From his first years as coach Umile recruited it and first hit the jackpot with Boguniecki and Nolan who entered in the fall of 1993. Then, of course, came Mowers, Nickulas, Krog, Haydar, Collins, Saviano, and the rest. Speed and quality is tough to beat, and for more than a decade, UNH had it. Then they didn't, for a couple of reasons that would take up another whole thread. Let's just say that it is still possible to field a quality program on the big sheet and a crap one on a small sheet. We are going to find that out soon enough.

Greg, Very good analysis.
1. This shrink-the-rink is what I'd call "One Man's Bad Idea": not much input from anyone (high or low), no discussions, no publicity until recently, not thought through, no rationale (except it's a convenient time). They've know about the need to upgrade the refrigeration system for years, why weren't the pros and cons of the rink size discussed years ago?
2. As Greg states, it will change the type of player we've been know for: in 25+ years of going, I don't think there was a poor skater on our team: speed, stick handling, that's the game I prefer. Some may not, but this will change the traditional play of UNH hockey. Bring on the grinders.
3. And they don't even have a good plan for the bad idea: shrink the rink and then do the seats later? Might as well watch the game on the jumbotron or at home on TV. But wait: just play loud music, put on inane videos, and have more theme nights - that'll bring in the fans.
4. Maybe I'm wrong, but this looks like Souza's idea and no one said, "Can we just wait a minute...... ? The Shrink Stinks.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

Greg, Very good analysis.
1. This shrink-the-rink is what I'd call "One Man's Bad Idea": not much input from anyone (high or low), no discussions, no publicity until recently, not thought through, no rationale (except it's a convenient time). They've know about the need to upgrade the refrigeration system for years, why weren't the pros and cons of the rink size discussed years ago?
2. As Greg states, it will change the type of player we've been know for: in 25+ years of going, I don't think there was a poor skater on our team: speed, stick handling, that's the game I prefer. Some may not, but this will change the traditional play of UNH hockey. Bring on the grinders.
3. And they don't even have a good plan for the bad idea: shrink the rink and then do the seats later? Might as well watch the game on the jumbotron or at home on TV. But wait: just play loud music, put on inane videos, and have more theme nights - that'll bring in the fans.
4. Maybe I'm wrong, but this looks like Souza's idea and no one said, "Can we just wait a minute...... ? The Shrink Stinks.

#TheShrinkStinks Love that...future hash tag!!

 

[sonar]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

http://www.startribune.com/gophers-looking-at-switching-to-smaller-ice-sheet/504842431/

Interesting .......... International hockey now moving to smaller sheet .........

 

[theprofromdover]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

Greg, Very good analysis.
1. This shrink-the-rink is what I'd call "One Man's Bad Idea": not much input from anyone (high or low), no discussions, no publicity until recently, not thought through, no rationale (except it's a convenient time). They've know about the need to upgrade the refrigeration system for years, why weren't the pros and cons of the rink size discussed years ago?
2. As Greg states, it will change the type of player we've been know for: in 25+ years of going, I don't think there was a poor skater on our team: speed, stick handling, that's the game I prefer. Some may not, but this will change the traditional play of UNH hockey. Bring on the grinders.
3. And they don't even have a good plan for the bad idea: shrink the rink and then do the seats later? Might as well watch the game on the jumbotron or at home on TV. But wait: just play loud music, put on inane videos, and have more theme nights - that'll bring in the fans.
4. Maybe I'm wrong, but this looks like Souza's idea and no one said, "Can we just wait a minute...... ? The Shrink Stinks.

My brother was the construction manager for Whittemore and The Mullin Center. 12-15 years ago UNH approached Suffolk Construction to inquire about the cost to reduce the ice to NHL size. It was deemed too expensive then.

 

[After the Whistle]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

First, I’ve always liked sitting down near ice level. When I was a student, I stood in the corner at the scoreboard end of Snively. In those chain link days you could hear just about everything said on the ice and almost feel like you were part of the action when UNH was racing into the zone or setting up on a PP (back when UNH actually knew how to score on one). When I got season tickets at the Whit, they were fourth row, on the blue line, section 104. I was sitting right there when Ben Guite blasted Mark Mowers into the glass, knocking him unconscious. I could hear his teammate Tom Nolan, rushing over, saying “Mark, you okay, you okay” and waving frantically for the trainers to get on the ice. Being that close back in the glory days it was a wonder to watch the skills of those guys close up and I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

As for the hockey end of things, I can guarantee you that those clamoring for a narrower sheet are doing so solely based on feel, anecdotal observations and certainly without hard statistical evidence. You say you like the narrower sheet where it takes a high skill set to create and execute and, I assume score. Hello! Scoring in college hockey is at an abysmal low right now and you’re an advocate of making it even more difficult to get on the board? Now I’m sure from the way you talk that you are some sort of hockey savant, but 90% of those attending a college game are not. If they attend an endless trail of games with 2-1, 1-0, 3-2 finals, with both teams unable to even create scoring chances, how often do you think they will come back? College hockey attendance is down almost everywhere. The reasons are myriad, but making it even more difficult to score is not going to help things. Hope you agree.

Greg, I am with you on sitting close. Been on the first row, initially because that was all that was available, but just love it. Hence ATW! I watch every kid after every shift at my end as well as after every period and the game. You would be surprised how accurate a temperature you can take by looking at their faces and physical reactions. Currently I can say the far, near corner is out of my site lines, and certainly those of you up 8 - 15 rows can get a much different view of a breakout but love the action and up close. Perhap we could dig down in the 10 feet we will gain and add a row or 2. I know we don't need 600 more seats but the last thing we need is a 10 foot walkway on the glass.....aaaah!
As to the "proposed changes", i couldn't be less happy. It ain't the size of the sheet. It may deter a recruit or 2 but it brings in a recruit or 2. As for scoring, i did a look back last year over the last 20 years and Watcher and others are so right. I do take a different stance on the total why. Yes the top recruits have not landed here in large numbers recently but I watch the current group and honestly feel they are far more capable than the 90 or so goals they will total this year. Can't finish and no snipers is what we say. Hard to argue but I see a lot more talent and ability than i see scoring. Please could we coach these kids up a bit! This age group is so used to being given tons of feedback and we now hear, they don't need in game coaching. How does one who is in the middle of the fight look objectively on what just happened? Someone tells him what happened, why and perhaps how to avoid it. Waiting until Monday is too late! Sorry, but that is what i am seeing and i totally respect these coaches, just think they need to reevaluate what clearly isn't producing. This team had 110 goals it.

 

[ClOuD 9]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

Finally, at least for me, the change in the dimensions of the rink is just so unnecessary. The argument is that the larger sheet prevents UNH from attracting quality players and, therefore, prevents them from winning. This argument ignores the fact that there are several schools out west that have large sheets and despite this “disadvantage,” do quite well. And,,of course, it goes without saying that in the first 20 years that the Whit was open, UNH made the NCAA tournament 16 times, made the Frozen Four four times and won several Hockey East regular season and playoff championships. Back then there was apparently no problem with the size of the rink. Might it be because we had better players? Here’s a suggestion Marty. Instead of spending a million bucks or more to chop up the arena and, in the process, ruin the “fan experience” for hundreds, how about turning that money over to the hockey program so that they could increase their recruiting budget?

It also feels unusual given that for the first time in the ~20 years I've been following they are recruiting international players with some regularity: Eriksson, Engaras, Sato (who actually played with Japan for Olympic qualifiers). One would expect these players would be used to and benefit from the larger sheet.

Greg, Very good analysis.
1. This shrink-the-rink is what I'd call "One Man's Bad Idea": not much input from anyone (high or low), no discussions, no publicity until recently, not thought through, no rationale (except it's a convenient time). They've know about the need to upgrade the refrigeration system for years, why weren't the pros and cons of the rink size discussed years ago?
....
4. Maybe I'm wrong, but this looks like Souza's idea and no one said, "Can we just wait a minute...... ? The Shrink Stinks.

To be fair, this was initially floated by Umile (with Scarano's backing) a decade or so ago. There was a short lived PR campaign in some of the local papers pushing for it but I'm guessing they ultimately balked at the price.

 

[Snively65]

Yes, the 2.5 over/under is goals as I wrote, not points. See 'watcher's lengthy post for hints.

Tweet! Ok, time's up. Only two entries. HR predicts three goals, which would give us 90 on the season, one more than last year, and two more than the year before. So, that would be yet one more sign of improvement.

I predict one goal (but, for a win and a split), which falls one goal short from last year.......... unless the split allows us two more games at Conte, where all bets would be off.

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

https://www.startribune.com/gophers-looking-at-switching-to-smaller-ice-sheet/504842431/

Interesting .......... International hockey now moving to smaller sheet .........

"Mariucci is heading toward that fate, just a little slowly. The program announced its intentions in 2014 to reduce the size of the 25-year-old rink to a hybrid 92.5-foot width. Since then, the Gophers have revamped their locker rooms and players' lounge and will next update the weight room and coaches' offices. The last part would be the actual ice, something Brian Deutsch, assistant director of athletic communications, called a "long-term project" for which "fundraising efforts are ongoing." The smaller ice would also increase seating and create better sightlines."

Because MN is waiting to do it correctly.

Good rink size history, how we got here: https://www.duluthnewstribune.com/s...ege-hockey-olympic-sized-rinks-are-going-away

"We decided to go with an Olympic-sized ice sheet. The only unfortunate part is that you can't go back to an NHL-style ice sheet if you want. You can't go back without moving seats or anything."

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH Hockey: Where Do We Go From Here....

All the intel on the project is posted on the UNH projects web portal, if you dig deep enough, no pun intended. I'm not going in there to read it again but my recollection is that rather than raise the seats, the concept was to pull (drag) the seats toward the new boards. The seasting system is modular, so another engineer believed this would be the best fix for maintaining existing sight-lines. The result - and again - going purely on 9 month old memory - is that the concourse would become ~5' wider.

On the pragmatic side, as observed here, the price tag is not whimsical - it's big $$. But the refrigeration system is toast and they have no way out of that one. Obviously, doing both elements at once makes total sense, whether you agree with shrinking or not. Hey -- side bene! -- as a former rink manager said to me last week, the energy costs will also shrink (a little).

The first paragraph matches my recollection except I think the seats would be raised as well as dragged. I am in favor of big ice, but liked the plan with much improved sight lines and a wider concourse.

It is expensive, but there is a lot to be said for doing it right. Perform as much size change prep work as possible while replacing the refrigeration system and wait until a Wildcat Stadium/Football locker room/Soccer facility fundraising effort raises the funds to do it right.