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UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward
- Thread starter Dan
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HockeyRef
Well-known member
Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward
Really good points here today JB...valid and have the stats to back it up. I like the play of both Eriksson and Verrier. Both are hard working guys. Wish I could see the game highlights...guess there aren't any due to the power thing. Let's rock it tonight 'Cats...all cylinders firin'!! Go 'Cats!
Really good points here today JB...valid and have the stats to back it up. I like the play of both Eriksson and Verrier. Both are hard working guys. Wish I could see the game highlights...guess there aren't any due to the power thing. Let's rock it tonight 'Cats...all cylinders firin'!! Go 'Cats!
ClOuD 9
Well-known member
Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward
If they were in the Whitt, like the control for the old amber board was, they'd probably have been functional last night...
The controls for the jumbotron (and presumably production equipment) are across the street in the Fieldhouse.
If they were in the Whitt, like the control for the old amber board was, they'd probably have been functional last night...
e.cat
Seasoned Veteran
Thanks Scott. Got the woodstove going as we speak
I need to know who "Vanilla Soft Serve" is?I think I know, but I'd like to be certain.
Then I can pile on with some degree of clarity.
Gildon. Soft and melts easily
I’ll take this **** seriously when we harp on the gaffes of all of our defenseman (all of whom make them every night - most far more often than Gildon) and not just the ones who let us down by not single handily winning games.
I mean goddamit 20 year old soft serve three point nights and +3s or gtfo already...
Without any consistency of complaint it’s clearly an axe to grind and not legitimate analysis. It’s JVR/Poturalski all over again and it’s incredibly lame.
It’s the equivalent of those who complained about benching Ortiz/Ramirez for jogging to first occasionally on ground outs and want to bench them for the Brock Holts of the world...
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Ok Dan...you got me. I am saying that unfortunately...so much is expected of him that's what the average fan sees. Not fair..but to paraphrase the quote "to those who are given...so much is expected" is all people can see. It's tough being a top player but top players know it comes with the territory.
So the times when turnovers become goals are less likely to be forgiven when you are the best out there. At least...that's how I see the psychology of the situation never said it was correct...
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Why can’t you say this and stop here? This is fair - analysis and thoughtfulness. The name calling and ranting is pathetic even when remotely warranted.
He is still 20 years old. He’s three months older than Erikkson who he is three years ahead of. You think Erikkson looks better because he plays a fraction of the ice time, shifts against weaker opponents, handles the puck far less and you have no expectations for him...
I ignored youre PIC in this when he cited +/- to ding Gildon’s career - obviously he was too lazy to realize Gildon’s +/- out performed both Wyse and Maass in each of his first two seasons. He takes all the heat and you notice every flaw in his game only because you expect him to be perfect...
Tonight watch all the defenseman. There are weak links on the blueline and it is not Gildon. Period.
If he’s not living up to your expectations be specific about why and what you expect. Be fair about why that might be - as you are here - the ranting is weak.
And again, I get criticized when I point out statistics that aren’t flattering for player or the program - and call for goalie rotations - most often by some of the loudest ranters, too...
I’m not responding to you regarding the initial take on Gildon. I’m responding to you because I disagree a good point was made and I’m responding to that point...
JB
Desk Chair Coach
Seriously have you watched the last 3 games?
When UNH pulls a no show Gildon is one of the biggest issues. Now maybe the glaring issue is the inconsistency gap between the good Gildon and the bad Gildon.
And the soft part is the issue. When a team finds a way to play a heavy game UNH wilts. UConn just as fast as UNH and played heavy. UVM had a good scheme to play heavy on UNHs D from mid first until UNH seemed to figure it out early in the third.
JVR floated at UNH, he just did. It was frustrating because most nights he had more talent than anyone on the ice.
I have no idea what issue people had with Poturalski. I felt he maximized his ability.
I don’t believe that’s what’s going on here anymore - if that was the case than posts would be made about wanting/needing more from Gildon and where he needed to improve while still acknowledging the role he plays and how impactful he is even when not at his best.
Drive by posts calling him soft and serve as nothing more than a rant to validate ones own self and indicate clearly that one is watching the game waiting for him to make a mistake that most other UNH defenseman make regularly. Then pouncing.
Ask yourself this - when was the last time any other UNH defenseman was criticized for a failed clear or bad coverage by name? We had 14 opportunities and many bad coverages last weekend - did any one else get called out?
Wyse, Maass and especially MacKinnon and Verrier make awful clears and turn pucks over every single night. That’s hockey. There’s another team on the ice.
JB has great hockey knowledge and his last post about Gildon is a fair critique and while I don’t think Gildon is the only kid who we should be critiquing so be it...
The clown show from some others is over the top.
I’m far from one who will tell anyone they cant be critical. I called for a Tirone/Clark rotation for three years - but I cited stats and specific examples and expressed why I thought the rotation would be so beneficial and why goaltending was so important to that specific team. While I may have failed on occasion I tried hard to ensure I was never personally targeting Tirone...
I can respect that sort of criticism even if I disagree with it.
UNH fans on this board have a long history of eating their own - and most specifically the most talented and productive players on the teams perhaps it’s karma that we’ve had to enjoy a team with so so many ‘hustlers’ who plays the right way’ lately...
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JB - I didn’t watch the game last night for the same issues noted by others. I watched the UConn games and I saw horrid performances across the board. It absolutely wasn’t just Gildon and to imply it was is just off base...
I love your hockey knowledge and I wish you posted more often good and bad because you have terrific insight.
So if you and others expect more from Max feel free to say so, I’d just rather you were more measured and fair as you were in your last post, discussing how he could be more consistent in his elite talent and simplify his game...
If we’re going to be hypercritical of turnovers than we need to call them all out, or at least if we’re going to focus on Gildon note that he has the skill to avoid making those mistakes where others may not.
I don’t think that’s too much to ask and you have the intelligence and nuance to do so in a manner that elevates the conversation. Where others attacking him may not...
If Gildon takes a bad penalty it can certainly be called out - but a lot of bad penalties have been taken this season and only one guy gets heat for it (outside of the Wyse egregiousness at Maine). If Gildon turns a puck over call him out, but don’t ignore the more regular offenders simply because they don’t have upside...
That makes it personal, which it clearly has become for some others, if not for you...
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Why not just say you are directing your posts at me. Heavy is the head that wears the crown. You are the top talent and a draft pick more is expected of you. Should expectations be the same for the non scholarship kid on the 4th line as a first line forward? Shouldn’t be.
The mistakes by Gildon are glaring and costly. He’s taken a penalty on 3 power plays in the last 6 or so home games. Last night was 8 seconds in Instead if turning and skating to the puck he blocked the guy
UVMs second goal he tried to go through 2 people behind his net coughed it up to a guy in front wide open. Since you didn’t watch you wouldn’t know his D partner was open maybe 5 feet away.
As for soft he is. Hockey is a contact sport and he avoids it. Yes it makes sense to but not to the point where you get rid of the puck to anyone to avoid a hit
I’ll gladly dump on others when expectations are as high and mistakes are glaring and costly.
Optics are a big part of this. Wyse makes mistakes often takes too many dumb penalties but also plays hard.
Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward
Why not just say you're directing your criticism at Gildon instead of calling him Vanilla Soft Serve? You're a senior citizen (correct?) taking regular, drive-by, passive aggressive shots at (and name-calling) a 20 year old, because he's not carrying your favorite team. I didn't think that really warranted a direct response...
And expectations probably should be similar when one rants about benching the top draft pick in lieu of the fourth-pairing defenseman. Unless the plan is just to get worse because you're angry...
Why not just say you're directing your criticism at Gildon instead of calling him Vanilla Soft Serve? You're a senior citizen (correct?) taking regular, drive-by, passive aggressive shots at (and name-calling) a 20 year old, because he's not carrying your favorite team. I didn't think that really warranted a direct response...
And expectations probably should be similar when one rants about benching the top draft pick in lieu of the fourth-pairing defenseman. Unless the plan is just to get worse because you're angry...
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Not a senior citizen or angry. Just pointing out mistakes that are reoccurring. And not angry at all. The experience is about learning and sometimes that has to be the hard way. If you are doing to be a detriment with consistent poor choices then maybe a breather wouldn’t hurt.
He is the team leader in penalty minutes at 19. (13% of total) At least 6 have cost a power play. Wyse is 2nd which is terrible as well especially since they were paired together.
Your top 2 D can’t be accounting for 25%.
He’s also +1 which has his net +/- at -11.
I’d say that there is some fairness to criticism
Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward
Be critical all you want. Just be critical like an adult. I mean how many times today have I said criticism is fair, just that your original posts were off-base and out of bounds. Also, If you don't mind, I'd love to see your work regarding six penalties costing UNH a power-play...
As for the +1, he has also contributed 19 PP points which brings him to +20 in actual GF/GA (additional PP-pluses and there have been at least a few are likely cancelled out by a few GA on the PK). That's a massive contribution, considering UNH only has 24 PP goals total (Your top D shouldn't be accounting for nearly 84% of your PPG and yet, without any real appreciation from the fan base, he does it). Again, be honest in your criticism, especially if you're going to cite +/- as a way of insinuating he's hurting the team by allowing too many goals against relative to what he produces...
He's cost them a few PPs - would you trade that for an entirely dismal PP by pulling him off the unit?
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Gildon is an offensively gifted defenseman, who still needs to improve in his own end and could stand to make simpler decisions when the play calls for simplicity. He's only 20 but he's been here for three years and UNH needs him to be great every night if they want to maximize team results.
^ That is a heavy is the crown, fair criticism of a team's best player. Not this drivel about benching him, calling him soft or calling him names. If you want to be critical of certain plays be critical, but be fair. And if you're only calling him out because he's the best guy and needs to be better than pretending he's the worst D on the team is just going to make you look foolish when apparently you don't even believe it to be true...
He is still UNH's best player/talent by far and contributes far more to the team than he costs them - even on his worst days. Certainly far more than some of the defensemen being lauded on this very thread today. If Gildon turned as many pucks over in dangerous situations as one in particular, people would want him cut and forced to walk back to Texas...
All turnovers hurt the same regardless of the size of the players' crowns. We all understand the psychology of the best player getting an unfair proportion of the blame, but Gildon is not the reason why an entire team melted down against a more physical UConn team*. That is an illegitimate criticism. There are plenty of ways to point out that Gildon made a mistake, took a bad penalty or made a complicated play without resorting to what you have consistently resorted to the past few weeks...
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* They've been the SMT's for decades, have zero truly physical defenseman and five of their top-six offensive forwards are all under 5-10 and 180 lbs (in reality, if not quite by roster standards) but when they get out-sized by UConn its all on Max?
Be critical all you want. Just be critical like an adult. I mean how many times today have I said criticism is fair, just that your original posts were off-base and out of bounds. Also, If you don't mind, I'd love to see your work regarding six penalties costing UNH a power-play...
As for the +1, he has also contributed 19 PP points which brings him to +20 in actual GF/GA (additional PP-pluses and there have been at least a few are likely cancelled out by a few GA on the PK). That's a massive contribution, considering UNH only has 24 PP goals total (Your top D shouldn't be accounting for nearly 84% of your PPG and yet, without any real appreciation from the fan base, he does it). Again, be honest in your criticism, especially if you're going to cite +/- as a way of insinuating he's hurting the team by allowing too many goals against relative to what he produces...
He's cost them a few PPs - would you trade that for an entirely dismal PP by pulling him off the unit?
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Gildon is an offensively gifted defenseman, who still needs to improve in his own end and could stand to make simpler decisions when the play calls for simplicity. He's only 20 but he's been here for three years and UNH needs him to be great every night if they want to maximize team results.
^ That is a heavy is the crown, fair criticism of a team's best player. Not this drivel about benching him, calling him soft or calling him names. If you want to be critical of certain plays be critical, but be fair. And if you're only calling him out because he's the best guy and needs to be better than pretending he's the worst D on the team is just going to make you look foolish when apparently you don't even believe it to be true...
He is still UNH's best player/talent by far and contributes far more to the team than he costs them - even on his worst days. Certainly far more than some of the defensemen being lauded on this very thread today. If Gildon turned as many pucks over in dangerous situations as one in particular, people would want him cut and forced to walk back to Texas...
All turnovers hurt the same regardless of the size of the players' crowns. We all understand the psychology of the best player getting an unfair proportion of the blame, but Gildon is not the reason why an entire team melted down against a more physical UConn team*. That is an illegitimate criticism. There are plenty of ways to point out that Gildon made a mistake, took a bad penalty or made a complicated play without resorting to what you have consistently resorted to the past few weeks...
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* They've been the SMT's for decades, have zero truly physical defenseman and five of their top-six offensive forwards are all under 5-10 and 180 lbs (in reality, if not quite by roster standards) but when they get out-sized by UConn its all on Max?
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JB
Desk Chair Coach
Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward
All turnovers do NOT hurt the same.
Gildon has a penchant for painful turnovers. There are times a bad turnover happens because of a tough situation, for me those are forgiven, **** happens. Then there are turnovers because you put yourself in a bad position, making the simple complicated. Some of those are learning experiences. At some point repeatedly making those decisions becomes who you are. Gildon isn't there yet, as he is a young player... although in some situations he doesn't appear to be learning.
Particularly when the situation becomes stressful, you are what you habitually do.
UNH still has a problem with physical play. Gildon seems to be particularly affected. They clearly need to find a way to practice playing against a more physical style so they react better under the stress of the situation.
All turnovers do NOT hurt the same.
Gildon has a penchant for painful turnovers. There are times a bad turnover happens because of a tough situation, for me those are forgiven, **** happens. Then there are turnovers because you put yourself in a bad position, making the simple complicated. Some of those are learning experiences. At some point repeatedly making those decisions becomes who you are. Gildon isn't there yet, as he is a young player... although in some situations he doesn't appear to be learning.
Particularly when the situation becomes stressful, you are what you habitually do.
UNH still has a problem with physical play. Gildon seems to be particularly affected. They clearly need to find a way to practice playing against a more physical style so they react better under the stress of the situation.
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Re: UNH Hockey: Treading Water or Trending Upward
Obviously a turnover in the corner under pressure of three guys doesn't hurt the same as an open ice turnover. I'm clearly taking about all dangerous turnovers hurting the same - whether committed by a #1 draft pick or by a third-pair defender you dont expect anything from...
There was a game a few weeks back when one of the defenders lauded in this thread made three egregious turnovers in a single game, including two in a row at one point (on the same shift) in the third. A couple of minutes later Gildon made a more modest but still ill advised turnover from which he recovered to harrass the forward into a bad shot. Guess which one of the four dangerous turnovers got mentioned as problematic on this thread...
All four were dangerous and none were related to a 'tough situation' - they were the same, except one guy made three and another made one and added two assists on offense...
And that is the problem with this line of conversation - as it has often occurred - a number of dangerous situations occur every night for all six UNH defenseman. Most are ignored and they're only a referendum on, not just the ability, but the character of one in particular.
Obviously a turnover in the corner under pressure of three guys doesn't hurt the same as an open ice turnover. I'm clearly taking about all dangerous turnovers hurting the same - whether committed by a #1 draft pick or by a third-pair defender you dont expect anything from...
There was a game a few weeks back when one of the defenders lauded in this thread made three egregious turnovers in a single game, including two in a row at one point (on the same shift) in the third. A couple of minutes later Gildon made a more modest but still ill advised turnover from which he recovered to harrass the forward into a bad shot. Guess which one of the four dangerous turnovers got mentioned as problematic on this thread...
All four were dangerous and none were related to a 'tough situation' - they were the same, except one guy made three and another made one and added two assists on offense...
And that is the problem with this line of conversation - as it has often occurred - a number of dangerous situations occur every night for all six UNH defenseman. Most are ignored and they're only a referendum on, not just the ability, but the character of one in particular.
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