UNH Hockey 2023 Off Season Thread Turn and Face the Strange

[HockeyRef]

Cool portal news about a player coming in from C-H-C's twitter:


Hearing sophomore AIC defenseman Luis Lindner (5/16/01, Austria) to @UNHMHOCKEY
out of transfer portal. 5’11” 172 lbs left shot. 21-22 @Atlantic_Hockey
All-Rookie Team, AHA Champion. 14 goals 25 assists +14 over 2 seasons. Veteran player for Austrian team in WJC.@Boston_JrBruins

 

[HockeyRef]

UNH picks up D-man out of portal Luis Lindner from AIC. He's from Austria and had 7 assists in 35 games last year. They actually have him listed as D/F.

oops! didn't see your post sorry!

 

[JB]

Except as HockeyRef mentioned, players don't have to like the coach, just trust the coach to get them where they want to be. That's playing in meaningful games and getting better exposure. You have to trust the coach is moving forward, and the longer the coach is stuck in the basement, the less you believe his vision of the future. It becomes a death spiral.
Carfagna and Dunlop were not stuck behind senior pluggers. They were given lots of playing time, so I can't believe that would be a factor in their choice to leave. I suspect it is more of what I said in my last post -- they originally chose UNh because it was the best they could do, but now that they have better options, they chose those.

I can go with the like vs trust comments. However I believe there needs to be a personal connection. There were plenty of stories from the past about Umile and Freshman, Sophomores and even Juniors - most didn't start to really connect with him until their Senior year and many/most stayed in contact after. That is what MS7 experienced. I don't believe that works today, note I could be really wrong. I think there needs to be a much earlier connection to build that trust.

 

[JB]

Family atmosphere was great 60, 50, 40, 30 years ago. Money is much more a concern with NCAA sports today. Athletic departments and groups that support them must adapt.

The FOH demise has been beaten to death on our threads. AFAIK no one from UNH Athletics or the FOH Board of Directors has posted on the subject so the posts (mine included) are from what we have been told or heard in conversation. What we hear are individuals' perceptions and their version of the truth. The one thing I know for 100% fact is that football has a fan support group and hockey does not. This tells me that UNH is receptive to having fans organize to volunteer time and effort to support teams as long as they are willing to work FOR the University.

Fixed your post...

My understanding is one of the major sticking points was around how the money/fund raising was going to be distributed/spent, and it was a good chunk of change. BS35+ wanted it to go to the AD to decide how it was spent across the entire department. FOH volunteers wanted to have money raised by the FOH go to the hockey team. I was not in the room for those discussion so I can not state it as fact. My perception is my reality and from my view it was a ham fisted power grab by an AD that went terribly wrong for the team when the people doing the work said forget it instead. NOTE: it is not shocking the power grab didn't happen until the guy with the real power, Umile, retired.

I think the rest of the NCAA nonsense is just the excuse for the power grab gone wrong.

It would take significant effort for Souza and Rich to rebuild the FOH in light of the current state of the team and the distrust that the BS35+ my way of the highway approach created.

 

[Darius]

Fixed your post...

My understanding is one of the major sticking points was around how the money/fund raising was going to be distributed/spent, and it was a good chunk of change. BS35+ wanted it to go to the AD to decide how it was spent across the entire department. FOH volunteers wanted to have money raised by the FOH go to the hockey team. I was not in the room for those discussion so I can not state it as fact. My perception is my reality and from my view it was a ham fisted power grab by an AD that went terribly wrong for the team when the people doing the work said forget it instead. NOTE: it is not shocking the power grab didn't happen until the guy with the real power, Umile, retired.

I think the rest of the NCAA nonsense is just the excuse for the power grab gone wrong.

It would take significant effort for Souza and Rich to rebuild the FOH in light of the current state of the team and the distrust that the BS35+ my way of the highway approach created.

No argument with your fix. The U definitely wanted $ control. I heard it more as a compliance concern. I’d not heard about money being spread across the entire department, but that is similar to what I did hear about 50/50 money. Personally, I will stop donating to UNH hockey if I hear that team specific donations are being distributed across the entire department. I contribute directly to other teams as well.

 

[Darius]

I can go with the like vs trust comments. However I believe there needs to be a personal connection. There were plenty of stories from the past about Umile and Freshman, Sophomores and even Juniors - most didn't start to really connect with him until their Senior year and many/most stayed in contact after. That is what MS7 experienced. I don't believe that works today, note I could be really wrong. I think there needs to be a much earlier connection to build that trust.

Years ago I heard it told with a smile, but also with a degree of seriousness, that Coach Umile did not even speak to his Freshmen

 

[Snively65]

I am being SARCASTIC.....

Oops, sorry that I missed the sarcasm, despite my own attempts at sarcasm.

Good to hear that MS7 finally scored in the portal, although I would have been more impressed if MS7 had snagged the two much more productive players that Barr snagged from Bentley.

 

[JB]

Years ago I heard it told with a smile, but also with a degree of seriousness, that Coach Umile did not even speak to his Freshmen

Me too. I heard a story from a past player, in some public space somewhere, that he was afraid of Umile / didn't talk to him until he was a senior and at the time of the story, as a graduate, called Umile at least once a month for advice. Clearly somebody that by then was very close to Umile.

In todays world would you trust a coach that had that little interaction... especially a coach with a bad team, no track record of development, etc. I am NOT saying that MS7 is doing this, I am wondering if it is what he learned so what he knows and if that is part of the problem. With the transfer portal, if you are a not so good team, it is some level of constant recruiting of your own best talent to retain them.

 

[Darius]

In todays world would you trust a coach that had that little interaction... especially a coach with a bad team, no track record of development, etc. I am NOT saying that MS7 is doing this, I am wondering if it is what he learned so what he knows and if that is part of the problem. With the transfer portal, if you are a not so good team, it is some level of constant recruiting of your own best talent to retain them.

Yeah, those tactics aren’t going to work with most of today’s players. I heard that Coach Souza understood the need and wanted to do some things differently than Coach Umile. These were not things directly related to coaching the team.

 

[Snively65]

MS7, presumable HC for foreseeable future now, will have plenty of time to prepare his team to face UMass-Flagship in Amherst on 23 February 2024 and host the Minutemen (no longer Minutewagon, but a fellow HEA cupcake) at the Whitt the next night.

 

[Chuck Murray]

So this year's Ryan Black turns out to be a utility kid from AIC. Net result so far, as bad as UNH was last season, after getting flat-out net clobbered in the portal this year, the smart money is on a #11 finish next season.

Gosh, I am SO glad AD Rich decided to "save" UNH about $100K by delaying the rebuild for another year. Yippee.

 

[norbert]

I have skimmed through most of these messages and will give my current thoughts in an effort to reconcile everything trying to be respectful of my conversation yesterday even though I don't think anything was top secret.

1. Facilities matter. I know everyone says that this is a built-in excuse, and I was one, but seeing a comparison to other schools it does matter. Good, bad, star players all of these kids have an eye on the prize of going to the NHL. Most never make it but they want the best chance at it. Some of that is coaching and development so that is up for debate. But they want the best chance of making it. New ice and a scoreboard are not a recruiting tool.

2. The portal matters. When a kid can get $10K a year plus his full scholarship and UNH can't offer it, they leave. There are kids who are mid-tier D-1 players who have advisors (agents) that direct them to the money. This was news to me but college hockey is now all about business.

3. MS7 is trying to add things like a coaches club to fundraise and interact more. My guess is that there was push back from Marty who did not want to have to put in effort as he was on his way to a big pension.

4. We need to see what AD Rich will have to offer. I suggest if you are passionate enough reach out. Worse case scenario is that you don't get a response, but you can't hear if you don't ask.


I have been as critical as anyone on this board, and you can call me soft now , but I have a different perspective on everything after yesterday. Don't get me wrong in that subpar records are ok and should not reflect on the staff. But I do honestly feel that the support for men's hockey administratively is not there.

Again I want to be respectful of the conversation yesterday but am willing to have a person conversation with anyone, just reach out.

 

[HockeyRef]

I have skimmed through most of these messages and will give my current thoughts in an effort to reconcile everything trying to be respectful of my conversation yesterday even though I don't think anything was top secret.

1. Facilities matter. I know everyone says that this is a built-in excuse, and I was one, but seeing a comparison to other schools it does matter. Good, bad, star players all of these kids have an eye on the prize of going to the NHL. Most never make it but they want the best chance at it. Some of that is coaching and development so that is up for debate. But they want the best chance of making it. New ice and a scoreboard are not a recruiting tool.

2. The portal matters. When a kid can get $10K a year plus his full scholarship and UNH can't offer it, they leave. There are kids who are mid-tier D-1 players who have advisors (agents) that direct them to the money. This was news to me but college hockey is now all about business.

3. MS7 is trying to add things like a coaches club to fundraise and interact more. My guess is that there was push back from Marty who did not want to have to put in effort as he was on his way to a big pension.

4. We need to see what AD Rich will have to offer. I suggest if you are passionate enough reach out. Worse case scenario is that you don't get a response, but you can't hear if you don't ask.


I have been as critical as anyone on this board, and you can call me soft now , but I have a different perspective on everything after yesterday. Don't get me wrong in that subpar records are ok and should not reflect on the staff. But I do honestly feel that the support for men's hockey administratively is not there.

Again I want to be respectful of the conversation yesterday but am willing to have a person conversation with anyone, just reach out.

Thanks for the summation of your recent convo with MS7...most fans are not aware of the 'changing landscape' of college hockey, me for one. I still maintain success in any given program has alot to do with the coaching staff, but these things you point out do have merit and it's pretty much what he's saying. But after xyz years...you'd think he'd have more to show for it all, and I'm including the pandemic year (everyone had to go through that).


As per your #3 item, like I said, there are a group of fans that have met I believe a few times? in support of him. I don't know where this is at currently; its at the moment a pretty select group...

BTW...I will have to disagree with your point in #1 about how 'coaching and development' being up for debate? I'd think this is a paramount feature of any D1 program for
aspiring NHL'ers. Seems to me, its a big / huge part of why a kid would want to play for a D1 school...past the Lazy Boy recliners and all the other glitz. (and I've seen the UMass vid of their facilities..)

Development of players, at least in my view, has been a concern at UNH, it's not hard to see.

Regardless? He will have to make hay as they say this coming season...you can't hide behind the facts forever and these issues, while important, are things every program is dealing with....

On another note, let's go Hurricanes! Freakin' Panthers...

Ps...Noticed that the women's team has already picked their captains for next season...I'd settle for a schedule. ha!

 

[Darius]

I have skimmed through most of these messages and will give my current thoughts in an effort to reconcile everything trying to be respectful of my conversation yesterday even though I don't think anything was top secret.

1. Facilities matter. I know everyone says that this is a built-in excuse, and I was one, but seeing a comparison to other schools it does matter. Good, bad, star players all of these kids have an eye on the prize of going to the NHL. Most never make it but they want the best chance at it. Some of that is coaching and development so that is up for debate. But they want the best chance of making it. New ice and a scoreboard are not a recruiting tool.

2. The portal matters. When a kid can get $10K a year plus his full scholarship and UNH can't offer it, they leave. There are kids who are mid-tier D-1 players who have advisors (agents) that direct them to the money. This was news to me but college hockey is now all about business.

3. MS7 is trying to add things like a coaches club to fundraise and interact more. My guess is that there was push back from Marty who did not want to have to put in effort as he was on his way to a big pension.

4. We need to see what AD Rich will have to offer. I suggest if you are passionate enough reach out. Worse case scenario is that you don't get a response, but you can't hear if you don't ask.


I have been as critical as anyone on this board, and you can call me soft now , but I have a different perspective on everything after yesterday. Don't get me wrong in that subpar records are ok and should not reflect on the staff. But I do honestly feel that the support for men's hockey administratively is not there.

Again I want to be respectful of the conversation yesterday but am willing to have a person conversation with anyone, just reach out.

Thanks again for meeting with Coach and sharing your thoughts. You are not soft, just realistic. I have a couple of friends who provide me with one/two degrees of separation from direct interaction with Coach Souza, the program and the athletic department. I have never had the impression that UNH Hockey was the house on fire, about to implode into nothingness, dysfunctional mess that this board would have us think. Is anyone happy with the current state of the program? No. Would everyone like improvement? Yes. Have positive changes that we cannot see occurred since the coaching transition? Yes.

College sports are transitioning to a pay the players model. Schools and programs need to figure out where they want to be when it all shakes out. I can envision a not to distant future with an NCAA structure similar to football where there are semi-pro (FBS) and traditional (FCS) divisions for many sports. It will not be pretty for many programs with great histories that are not Alabama football, UConn hoops, MN hockey, etc. UNH is aware, well positioned and adapting to continue meeting the athletic department's mission statement: https://unhwildcats.com/sports/2021/...statement.aspx

One thing I am curious about from your meeting, did you get any gut sense of Coach's perception of his future at UNH?

 

[HockeyRef]

Thanks again for meeting with Coach and sharing your thoughts. You are not soft, just realistic. I have a couple of friends who provide me one/two degrees of separation from direct interaction with Coach Souza, the program and the athletic department. I have never had the impression that UNH Hockey was the house on fire, about to implode into nothingness, dysfunctional mess that this board would have us think. Is anyone happy with the current state of the program? No. Would everyone like improvement? Yes. Have positive changes that we cannot see occurred since the coaching transition? Yes.

College sports are transitioning to a pay the players model. Schools and programs need to figure out where they want to be when it all shakes out. I can envision a not to distant future with an NCAA structure similar to football where there are semi-pro (FBS) and traditional (FCS) divisions for many sports. It will not be pretty for many programs with great histories that are not Alabama football, UConn hoops, MN hockey, etc. UNH is aware, well positioned and adapting to continue meeting the athletic department's mission statement: https://unhwildcats.com/sports/2021/...statement.aspx

One thing I am curious about from your meeting, did you get any gut sense of Coach's perception of his future at UNH?

I am curious..not arguing..about your general over all impressions of the past years? Is being in the bottom of HE going to be our norm and we should be accepting of that?

Yeah most of us here do give a "the sky is falling" attitude but kindly tell me how we should be feeling...that said...I was very pleased with the second half of the season. And look for more improvement next...

 

[NCAA watcher]

College sports are transitioning to a pay the players model. Schools and programs need to figure out where they want to be when it all shakes out. I can envision a not to distant future with an NCAA structure similar to football where there are semi-pro (FBS) and traditional (FCS) divisions for many sports. It will not be pretty for many programs with great histories that are not Alabama football, UConn hoops, MN hockey, etc.

I'd be interested to hear what differentiates smaller/non-Big10 teams like Minn-Duluth, St.Cloud State, Denver, WEstern Mich, Nebraska-Omaha, Merrimack and Lowell

 

[After the Whistle]

Again, thanks Norbert!
My question is, since the facilities is such a big deal (yes, I absolutely feel that it is imp
ortant) did you get any sense of the timing on this. A hoped for completion date?

I believe that Watcher nailed it, problem identification is the easiest part of life, so what are you doing positively to sell the program in view of some of the short comings.

Lastly, as Ref noted, we will score more this coming year. Comny Will made a real difference as the year goes on. These kids have way more heart than many give them credit for but the problem is that which teams are going to move over and let us rise? Having real trouble with this one.

 

[Darius]

I am curious..not arguing..about your general over all impressions of the past years? Is being in the bottom of HE going to be our norm and we should be accepting of that

Not great, but with recent progress to at least being fun to watch. Possibly and no.

Yeah most of us here do give a "the sky is falling" attitude but kindly tell me how we should be feeling...that said...I was very pleased with the second half of the season. And look for more improvement next...

I can’t tell anyone how to feel. Personally, I try to avoid sports and relatively inconsequential things in life from exciting me to the point of frustration and stress. I too was pleased with the second half of the season (not the very end) and look forward to improvement next season.

 

[Darius]

I'd be interested to hear what differentiates smaller/non-Big10 teams like Minn-Duluth, St.Cloud State, Denver, WEstern Mich, Nebraska-Omaha, Merrimack and Lowell

If you mean their recent performance differentiated from each other and UNH, recruiting and coaching.

Longer term and compared to larger/B1G teams, I don’t know what the future will bring. I can envision the NCAA going official with semi-pro/minor league top football and basketball divisions. Hopefully this does not fully trickle down to hockey. If it does, some schools will have hard decisions. UNH is in a better place to make those and other changing landscape decisions now than it was a few years ago.

 

[norbert]

Again, thanks Norbert!
My question is, since the facilities is such a big deal (yes, I absolutely feel that it is imp
ortant) did you get any sense of the timing on this. A hoped for completion date?

I believe that Watcher nailed it, problem identification is the easiest part of life, so what are you doing positively to sell the program in view of some of the short comings.

Lastly, as Ref noted, we will score more this coming year. Comny Will made a real difference as the year goes on. These kids have way more heart than many give them credit for but the problem is that which teams are going to move over and let us rise? Having real trouble with this one.

I believe it’s June 8th when the senate votes on the budget. Things could immediately start if funding is approved. I believe it will be done in phases so things can open and be in use. Field hockey will also get facilities as they play in front.