UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

[CatsFan1983]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

When did Borque leave? I need to start paying attention.

He left after the first semester. Academic reasons.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Twitter tells me Joe Sacco to UNH.
http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=212568

Vernon Vipers ... wasn't that Lanny Gare's BCHL team before he came to UNH?

 

[Snively65]

Vernon Vipers ... wasn't that Lanny Gare's BCHL team before he came to UNH?

Yup, and also Chanter's and McNickolas's (sp?) team.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Who/what is this "Chanter" thing/person you speak of?

 

[HockeyRef]

Who/what is this "Chanter" thing/person you speak of?

As the locals tell it he came in as a highly touted D man who has spent the last two seasons languishing in section 108. Guess the team was too loaded to need his services. Wears #5...(This all being written in a sarcastic/snarky tone because I really was hopeful for him)

For the life of me I can't understand what is going on with his development. Surely he has as much skill/talent as any other D in Wildcat Country. It's a mystery!!

Anybody else have a vibe on him?!?

 

[Snively65]

Who/what is this "Chanter" thing/person you speak of?

Eight games and two assists last year, but only five games and one assist this year; 0 +/- both seasons. In the two or three games that I have seen him play, he seemed ok to me. In DU's doghouse for some reason? After not generating any points over 19 regular season games with the Vipers two years ago, he had a good post-season with three goals and four assists. Must be somethin' that he did not do right once he got to Durham?

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Eight games and two assists last year, but only five games and one assist this year; 0 +/- both seasons. In the two or three games that I have seen him play, he seemed ok to me. In DU's doghouse for some reason? After not generating any points over 19 regular season games with the Vipers two years ago, he had a good post-season with three goals and four assists. Must be somethin' that he did not do right once he got to Durham?

He's a wildcard - he'll make some plays, he'll make some mistakes. Umile likes predictability in his defensive liabilities. Its OK to be a -13 as long as your just bad within the system, but not OK to be an even and taking risks...

 

[Snively65]

He's a wildcard - he'll make some plays, he'll make some mistakes. Umile likes predictability in his defensive liabilities. Its OK to be a -13 as long as your just bad within the system, but not OK to be an even and taking risks...

Shirley, you can't be serious.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

He's a wildcard - he'll make some plays, he'll make some mistakes. Umile likes predictability in his defensive liabilities. Its OK to be a -13 as long as your just bad within the system, but not OK to be an even and taking risks...

Given how bad the defense has been overall as a unit this season, you'd think "Jeez, just how bad must this kid be to not get any real extended run in the team?" I mean ... Harry Quast plays every night. Harry frickin Quast.

Listen - I'm not going to fall into the trap of overrating the kids/players who are on the bench/not dressing when the guys in front of them aren't playing well. Classic NFL scenario where the back-up QB becomes an alleged All-Pro in waiting. I give coaches who see these kids every day the benefit of the doubt - especially if they don't play, where we can't see them play and reach our own conclusions. Coaches who get paid like to keep their jobs, and all coaches like to keep the respect of their players, which doesn't happen when worthy players are wrongly held back. But on a team with a leaky defense, it's hard to understand why this kid hasn't gotten more of an opportunity, and that leaves us all on here to speculate about off-ice issues, failure to take instruction, disciplinary issues, etc.

I can't help but think they're trying to force the kid to leave the program so they can free up a spot for a more promising d-man. If that's the case, why not go for broke and take the same approach with another underachiever?

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

I can't help but think they're trying to force the kid to leave the program so they can free up a spot for a more promising d-man. If that's the case, why not go for broke and take the same approach with another underachiever?

That would be VERY out of character for Umile, so I'm not going to insinuate that that is the case. However, if you are trying to run off a player for an upgrade it has to be a scholarship kid. You can get rid of the walk-on, but you can still only attract another walk-on without the cash available...

That being said, I think its much more likely that my earlier point is correct. Umile would rather have Quast, Furgele or Dawson getting beat down the wing or out-muscled/outplayed in front than give up a goal because Boyd jumped into the rush or Chanter tried to make a big hit. The guys who play consistently, may in reality give up more goals, but Umile knows they'll be (at least closer) to the right position when they get beat. Nevermind that some puck movement or physical play might benefit the team or the defensive corp...

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

That being said, I think its much more likely that my earlier point is correct. Umile would rather have Quast, Furgele or Dawson getting beat down the wing or out-muscled/outplayed in front than give up a goal because Boyd jumped into the rush or Chanter tried to make a big hit. The guys who play consistently, may in reality give up more goals, but Umile knows they'll be (at least closer) to the right position when they get beat. Nevermind that some puck movement or physical play might benefit the team or the defensive corp...

The idea that Coach Umile is willing to pile all of this ice time on a spare part senior like Quast, and keeps Chanter (or Boyd or whomever) up in the stands just blows my mind. Let's even assume Chanter is the "next Quast". You have your worst team in 25+ years coaching at UNH, and it's going absolutely nowhere fast. There are really zero postseason expectations ... so why double down on a senior who's literally in the last week or two of his UNH career, and not have already given a more extended look-see at a kid who could be using that ice time to prepare for playing a more significant role for the next two-plus seasons?

Unless of course there really IS something to the idea that getting to the next round number is important to him.

The old dog is showing no signs of learning any new tricks at this point, I'm afraid ...

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

The idea that Coach Umile is willing to pile all of this ice time on a spare part senior like Quast, and keeps Chanter (or Boyd or whomever) up in the stands just blows my mind. Let's even assume Chanter is the "next Quast". You have your worst team in 25+ years coaching at UNH, and it's going absolutely nowhere fast. There are really zero postseason expectations ... so why double down on a senior who's literally in the last week or two of his UNH career, and not have already given a more extended look-see at a kid who could be using that ice time to prepare for playing a more significant role for the next two-plus seasons?

Unless of course there really IS something to the idea that getting to the next round number is important to him.

The old dog is showing no signs of learning any new tricks at this point, I'm afraid ...

We've all seen this movie before - if he can hang on through his junior year of playing <10 games, he'll be rewarded with top-4 ice time and a key role on special teams as a senior. #loyalty

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Dick Umile - The Good

Dick Umile took over a historically strong but struggling program. He traded on that tradition, his own will and tenacity, and not least, a new, top of the league rink to bring the program back to national prominence. The program also benefited from some visionary - and lucky, as all programs need to be - recruiting that may have been the most under appreciated asset at that time.

Those teams played an offensive, fire wagon brand of hockey that was entertaining and attractive. It attracted not only fans, it also attracted players. Young players, particularly young forwards, love to play for up tempo teams, just about as much as they like to play for winning teams. Coupling that style of play, with a young, all in coaching staff, along with the Olympic size sheet seemed to draw offensive talent to UNH beyond even what could have been hoped for. Times were good, and fun.

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Dick Umile - The Bad

The first real setback came with a tough loss to Denver in the NCAA tournament sometime in the mid 90s. This loss seemed to affect Umile deeply and would prove to be what I see as a crossroads type change to the program. UNH seemed to switch immediately to a more defensive system. This was my first disappointment with Umile and his program. The fire wagon got traded in for an SUV.

Yes, the program continued to excel and even reached much greater heights over the next few years but I think that was more a playing out of their momentum rather than any new impetus. They still managed to attract talented forwards but I think that was more on reputation than reality.

And this is a problem that haunts the program to this day. There are more talented forwards in the world than there are talented defensemen. This is true just in sheer numbers but it’s especially true at levels below pro hockey simply because d-men develop more slowly than forwards. Going defensive immediately made UNH’s recruiting pool smaller and tougher. If an NCAA team wants to live by defense, they had better have the ability to attract the small layer of cream at the top of the d-man pool. UNH couldn’t do this because they weren’t Michigan or North Dakota or BC, and because their own offensive reputation worked against them.

For this reason, among many others, UNH began a slow, very gradual glide to the middle, where they seemed to tread water for the better part of a decade. Just good enough, with just enough good players – Winnik, JVR, Butler – to keep the fans around but not good enough to really be anything.

 

[E.J. Smith]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Dick Umile - The Ugly

To finish one thought, it doesn’t help that for whatever reason, defensemen have never really improved – at least much – during their time at UNH. Mick Mounsey being the poster boy for that program shortcoming. He came in as a creative, dynamic freshman and was almost unwatchable by his senior year. That story could be told with a different name over and over again.

Then we have Umile himself. I don’t think introspection or self-assessment is a strength here. Other than the change from an offensive to a defensive approach – which was wrong imo – he does not seem to be very aware of why something does or doesn’t work. He seems to make his mind up about systems, players, tactics, recruiting, admissions processes and that’s it, end of story, we are not going to adjust – for years and decades on end.

What did change, and ties into this lack of introspection, is his intensity. A less important but telling example of that is in-season tournaments. UNH used to go to things like the Badger Showdown, the GLI, and other tournaments. I’ve lost touch a bit with the program lately but it seems like that doesn’t happen as much anymore. Yes, Dick, you’ve been there and done that, but that doesn’t mean the current players have.

And that’s really huge, it’s supposed to be about the players. I see a guy like Jerry York and he just seems thrilled to be around his team. He knows that while it might be his 30th time experiencing something, it’s his players’ first time, and he thrives off that, where Umile seems almost disdainful, like it’s the kids’ fault they’re 40 years younger than he is.

And it really should be about them, and they really do pick up on it when it isn’t. I feel that everything about the UNH program under Umile over the last 10-15 years suffers from the been there done that syndrome, including recruiting, which he seems to have checked out of completely. The no stone unturned, find the diamonds in the rough - Filipowicz, take the chance on the highly skilled but flawed players – Tom Nolan, do whatever it takes mentality – why is UNH the ONLY HE school never to recruit a European, is gone.

To sum it up, thanks Dick for rebuilding the program, and the memories, but it is absolutely unconscionable that you checked out as you clearly have but still continue to cash the paycheck. It’s time to give the seat up to someone who actually wants to do the work required, someone like you, 20 years ago.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Dick Umile - The Bad

The first real setback came with a tough loss to Denver in the NCAA tournament sometime in the mid 90s. This loss seemed to affect Umile deeply and would prove to be what I see as a crossroads type change to the program. UNH seemed to switch immediately to a more defensive system. This was my first disappointment with Umile and his program. The fire wagon got traded in for an SUV.

Yes, the program continued to excel and even reached much greater heights over the next few years but I think that was more a playing out of their momentum rather than any new impetus. They still managed to attract talented forwards but I think that was more on reputation than reality.

And this is a problem that haunts the program to this day. There are more talented forwards in the world than there are talented defensemen. This is true just in sheer numbers but it’s especially true at levels below pro hockey simply because d-men develop more slowly than forwards. Going defensive immediately made UNH’s recruiting pool smaller and tougher. If an NCAA team wants to live by defense, they had better have the ability to attract the small layer of cream at the top of the d-man pool. UNH couldn’t do this because they weren’t Michigan or North Dakota or BC, and because their own offensive reputation worked against them.

For this reason, among many others, UNH began a slow, very gradual glide to the middle, where they seemed to tread water for the better part of a decade. Just good enough, with just enough good players – Winnik, JVR, Butler – to keep the fans around but not good enough to really be anything.

Two very interesting posts E.J.. and funny, strange, was just reading some stuff about the Capt. of the Titanic who's name is/was E.J. Smith. Anyhoo, appreciated the basic explanation/viewpoint about the UNH story from your perspective. Somehow I liked your first story better than the second..that's a UNH team I'd love to see play and do see some of that in players like Nazarian/Miller when they play up tempo. Must've been some heady times.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Two very interesting posts E.J.. and funny, strange, was just reading some stuff about the Capt. of the Titanic who's name is/was E.J. Smith.

I'm guessing the new poster's name wasn't a coincidence. Go with your instincts, HR.

Anyhoo, appreciated the basic explanation/viewpoint about the UNH story from your perspective. Somehow I liked your first story better than the second ...

... and how did you NOT know there was going to be a Chapter 3? Not a Clint Eastwood fan, eh?

Dick Umile - The Ugly

To finish one thought, it doesn’t help that for whatever reason, defensemen have never really improved – at least much – during their time at UNH. Mick Mounsey being the poster boy for that program shortcoming. He came in as a creative, dynamic freshman and was almost unwatchable by his senior year. That story could be told with a different name over and over again.

Then we have Umile himself. I don’t think introspection or self-assessment is a strength here. Other than the change from an offensive to a defensive approach – which was wrong imo – he does not seem to be very aware of why something does or doesn’t work. He seems to make his mind up about systems, players, tactics, recruiting, admissions processes and that’s it, end of story, we are not going to adjust – for years and decades on end.

What did change, and ties into this lack of introspection, is his intensity. A less important but telling example of that is in-season tournaments. UNH used to go to things like the Badger Showdown, the GLI, and other tournaments. I’ve lost touch a bit with the program lately but it seems like that doesn’t happen as much anymore. Yes, Dick, you’ve been there and done that, but that doesn’t mean the current players have.

And that’s really huge, it’s supposed to be about the players. I see a guy like Jerry York and he just seems thrilled to be around his team. He knows that while it might be his 30th time experiencing something, it’s his players’ first time, and he thrives off that, where Umile seems almost disdainful, like it’s the kids’ fault they’re 40 years younger than he is.

And it really should be about them, and they really do pick up on it when it isn’t. I feel that everything about the UNH program under Umile over the last 10-15 years suffers from the been there done that syndrome, including recruiting, which he seems to have checked out of completely. The no stone unturned, find the diamonds in the rough - Filipowicz, take the chance on the highly skilled but flawed players – Tom Nolan, do whatever it takes mentality – why is UNH the ONLY HE school never to recruit a European, is gone.

To sum it up, thanks Dick for rebuilding the program, and the memories, but it is absolutely unconscionable that you checked out as you clearly have but still continue to cash the paycheck. It’s time to give the seat up to someone who actually wants to do the work required, someone like you, 20 years ago.

Home run. Grand slam home run. I'm not going to come down too hard on the change from offense to defense, as I think it's fair to say that's just been an overall trend in the game at all levels - certainly extending to the NHL. But the lack of energy coming from the top - the complacency, as I've harped on many times in the last few years - is just omnipresent. And frankly, until recently that complacency went beyond the coach to his boss. Now his boss has been awaken from his slumber, and at least framed an end game. I only wonder if he'll now have the intestinal fortitude to act on it early, or if we'll be left in limbo for another two seasons.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

I'm guessing the new poster's name wasn't a coincidence. Go with your instincts, HR.



... and how did you NOT know there was going to be a Chapter 3? Not a Clint Eastwood fan, eh?



Home run. Grand slam home run. I'm not going to come down too hard on the change from offense to defense, as I think it's fair to say that's just been an overall trend in the game at all levels - certainly extending to the NHL. But the lack of energy coming from the top - the complacency, as I've harped on many times in the last few years - is just omnipresent. And frankly, until recently that complacency went beyond the coach to his boss. Now his boss has been awaken from his slumber, and at least framed an end game. I only wonder if he'll now have the intestinal fortitude to act on it early, or if we'll be left in limbo for another two seasons.

Seriously, I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that name and had just watched a youtube about the ill fated Capt...I thought..naw.... And yes, I am a Clint fan, should've seen it coming. But we were having so much fun in the first story! Seriously tho...interesting posts.

 

[sonar]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Thank you E.J. Smith. Very well done on posts 133, 134, 135. I did note that "Good" was shorter than the "Bad" and the "Bad" was shorter than the "Ugly" ....

When I finished "Ugly" .... I thought about that old comment .... "Other than that Mrs. Murphy, how's your cow?" Interesting.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

When I finished "Ugly" .... I thought about that old comment .... "Other than that Mrs. Murphy, how's your cow?" Interesting.

Or ... "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

Seriously though - EJ's "trilogy" has to be the early leader in the clubhouse for "Post(s) of the Year"