What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

HockeyRef said:
Given all of this, it's been great to see the hoopla surrounding our newest commit Lucas Bahn on Twitter by his current team, the Slipjacks...he's also getting props from hockey bloggers for his 2 way abilities and that's a good thing. There's a lot of hockey to be played before he puts on the jersey...
Click to expand...

Here's an article about Lucas Bahn that was posted on the UNH Athletics Message Board. Didn't realize that he originally hails from Tennessee.

http://hendersonvillestandard.com/bahn-makes-commitment-to-wildcats-cms-9222
 
Dan said:
Harder than Ferris State has to work when competing with UM, MSU, WMU, ND, etc to get kids to the garbage dump that is Big Rapids? Harder than NU has to work as the third option within a mile radius? Harder than Providence had to work when they were a disaster upon Leaman's arrival (also see Quinnipiac/Pecknold and Lowell/Bazin)? Harder than a DII university like St. Cloud and so many others? Is it harder for us to manage the admissions process than Harvard or Yale?

Every school has hurdles - Many of which are A LOT WORSE than missing the tourney a few years. Some schools have coaches who ignore hurdles and other schools have coaches who are overwhelmed by hurdles. We'll see where Souza ends up on that spectrum. Every school competes with other schools for recruits. I remember when we used to compete with BU, BC, UM, ND, DU and UND for the top kids (apples to apples), now we compete with MC, ME and VT while fighting for the 'oranges' that fall of the big school tables...

I'm not interested in us beating out other schools who have only expressed interest in a kid by asking a coach about him, or inviting him to campus or to attend a camp. When can we expect to beat out tangible offers...?? Recruiters will usually throw out wide nets in case of emergency back-up plans. It doesn't always mean there is legitimate interest.

---

Watcher is right about DU - they have gotten so many great kids. They will be a force under Montgomery, who's approach to recruiting is simply, "That kid's good. DU is great. He's mine."
Click to expand...

There is a "scraps from Longshank's table" William Wallace (Mel Gibson) quote in here somewhere...
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Dan said:
Ref, fixed your post - no hard feelings, but Ronnie's wrong. 'Elite' recruits doesn't limit the pool to the handful of kids who will be top-NHL draft picks, it means extremely successful junior players who will/do make major impacts at the NCAA level.

Quinnipiac has done very well for itself...

* Tim Clifton is a USNTDP product
* Devin Toews was a highly productive and mobile defenseman who dominated the BCHL
* Anas was the #3 goal-scorer and a PPG talent in the USHL
* Aldworth was a highly recruited player who scored 37 goals in the BCHL last season
* Gartieg was a stud, posting two seasons of sub 2.00 GAA in the high scoring BCHL
* St. Denis was a PPG for three seasons in the BCHL, including 89 points in 54 games his final year
* Smith scored 83 points in 54 games his final year in the BCHL

That's just this year's team. Prior to 2015-16 there was...

* Picking up Jordan Samuels-Thomas as highly coveted transfer was huge
* Peca was a high-scoring draft pick from Ontario
* Kellen & Connor Jones were extremely well regarded scorers out of BC

QU has grown up to a high-level of recruit. That's why they're no longer just good, but they're VERY GOOD. We could quibble about the definition of elite, but the fact of the matter is QU has a lot players who were highly recruited and put up elite numbers in junior hockey. Certainly, they have a great system and culture - but they win primarily due to their talent. There has never been a team in the history of organized hockey who has won a championship without talent. Period. The idea that a bunch of grinders can win with effort is what got UNH into this problem in the first place. The good teams have talent. The best teams (QU) have a lot of talent, a great system and culture - but don't over look the impact of talent...
Click to expand...

I think what made sense to me in his comment was the 'solid player' piece...and to me, that means, they are talented. Of course you want talent on your team. It's how to attract it, develop it, that puts a team like QU in the drivers seat. I can't imagine UNH is out looking for anything but, talented players, or they see something that will develop. Which kind of begs the question (at least to me anyway)...sure, we WANT talent, but can we ATTRACT it, and if so, HOW to get those kids like Anas and co. to commit? You are going to have to change the culture, make the Regionals, BE the TEAM they want to play for...that's what I'm hoping/thinking MS and Stewie are up to.
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

HockeyRef said:
I think what made sense to me in his comment was the 'solid player' piece...and to me, that means, they are talented. Of course you want talent on your team. It's how to attract it, develop it, that puts a team like QU in the drivers seat. I can't imagine UNH is out looking for anything but, talented players, or they see something that will develop. Which kind of begs the question (at least to me anyway)...sure, we WANT talent, but can we ATTRACT it, and if so, HOW to get those kids like Anas and co. to commit? You are going to have to change the culture, make the Regionals, BE the TEAM they want to play for...that's what I'm hoping/thinking MS and Stewie are up to.
Click to expand...

I believe Anas from listening to the broadcasts this past weekend had an offer from Quinnipiac only. That was the impression.
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

HockeyRef said:
I think what made sense to me in his comment was the 'solid player' piece...and to me, that means, they are talented. Of course you want talent on your team. It's how to attract it, develop it, that puts a team like QU in the drivers seat. I can't imagine UNH is out looking for anything but, talented players, or they see something that will develop. Which kind of begs the question (at least to me anyway)...sure, we WANT talent, but can we ATTRACT it, and if so, HOW to get those kids like Anas and co. to commit? You are going to have to change the culture, make the Regionals, BE the TEAM they want to play for...that's what I'm hoping/thinking MS and Stewie are up to.
Click to expand...

And, my understanding is that QU does not shake hands after losses, only after wins and ties. :eek:
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

QUAlum2004 said:
I believe Anas from listening to the broadcasts this past weekend had an offer from Quinnipiac only. That was the impression.
Click to expand...

Yes! I heard that and was like WOW....that speaks volumes if it's true, and it just goes to show, there's alot of...solid players out there who develop into.... studs, (I hate that term :p..haha) but you get the pic!
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

HockeyRef said:
Yes! I heard that and was like WOW....that speaks volumes if it's true, and it just goes to show, there's alot of...solid players out there who develop into.... studs, (I hate that term :p..haha) but you get the pic!
Click to expand...

Great quote from Rand on the NCAA conference call today about recruiting.

On Quinnipiac's success and its effect on recruiting:
A big part of our program is development. We have some really good players on our team who we were the only school to talk to them. You want to get the most talented kids you can get, and we'll never take a kid without high character. We have a lot of really good players, but we also have a lot of players who literally nobody else wanted. Can we keep doing that? I think we can, but it's difficult.
Click to expand...

On the program's growth and recent success:
Without question, within the last five years we've moved up the chart on the recruiting trail, but it's still hard. There are still the few big programs that get all the first-round draft picks. We're trying. But we get the right kinds of kids here who want to play a team game and make sacrifices for us to win. We've been able to move up the ladder and close more deals than we would have 7 or 8 years ago, but we've still got a ways to go.
Click to expand...

http://quinnipiacbobcats.com/news/2...nts-from-ncaa-frozen-four-teleconference.aspx
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

QUAlum2004 said:
Great quote from Rand on the NCAA conference call today about recruiting.





http://quinnipiacbobcats.com/news/2...nts-from-ncaa-frozen-four-teleconference.aspx
Click to expand...

Well doesn't this speak volumes for finding the right players to plug into , buy into, your system. Wash, rinse, repeat. I've never thought having a ton of NHL recruits on a team is what makes a team most successful (yes, talent means something) and you can see that here with QU's success. Didn't happen over night...Now success starts to breed itself, failure, does the same. It's gotta be a match, too. We might lose out on some players who don't 'fit', while we gain those who do 'fit'. Just want more talent in the pool...;)
 
QUAlum2004 said:
Great quote from Rand on the NCAA conference call today about recruiting.
Click to expand...

I think the key in winning is in these quotes. Breaking into that "first round talent" program level is next to impossible. Wisconsin will get back there because they are one of "those" programs. A new member to that club is very unlikely - it takes decades at this point.

If that premise is true, how do you win? Well first round talent only stay are year or two. Look at BC's roster, if nobody leaves early (or some major injury or change - Jerry misses the second half) they are basically unbeatable next year. Most guess BC will have defections same with North Dakota etc.

The other talent that may be GREAT college players stays because they might not even be good pros. Those 4 year players, those 3 and 4 star recruits that are 5 star college athletes. That are the heart of a long running high end program that doesn't get (or need) 1st round talent every year.

If you don't get the 1st rounders and you loose that core it is a big problem: see UNH...
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

JB said:
I think the key in winning is in these quotes. Breaking into that "first round talent" program level is next to impossible. Wisconsin will get back there because they are one of "those" programs. A new member to that club is very unlikely - it takes decades at this point.

If that premise is true, how do you win? Well first round talent only stay are year or two. Look at BC's roster, if nobody leaves early (or some major injury or change - Jerry misses the second half) they are basically unbeatable next year. Most guess BC will have defections same with North Dakota etc.

The other talent that may be GREAT college players stays because they might not even be good pros. Those 4 year players, those 3 and 4 star recruits that are 5 star college athletes. That are the heart of a long running high end program that doesn't get (or need) 1st round talent every year.

If you don't get the 1st rounders and you loose that core it is a big problem: see UNH...
Click to expand...

Good points...the thing is, regarding teams like BC who ARE obviously gonna attract those first rounders, even with defections, they still make out ok. Why? Because...more first rounders wanna play for BC! So it's almost like they never 'run out' of that talent. UNH, on the other hand, does attract and get, great players like Andrew P, but, Andrew P, doesn't (and he's just an example here) stay around long, so what happens next when we don't have skaters to fill those shoes? At least, I think that's what you are getting at. (I still think we will be ok next year btw...hopeful players like Eiserman take off, McNick, Nazarian, Vela, a newbie has a stellar start...Cleland on D has a monster Senior year)

After much reflection on UNH's past, through posts on this board and also my own gleanings, we WERE that program but the parity of college hockey, the growth of the sport, and other 'stuff' (fill in your own blanks, you know you want to) have changed the landscape for us. Some here will probably want to point out these are 'excuses'..maybe they are but it's all I got. Whatever it is...time to pick up that dropped ball (don't have a hockey equivalent?) and run with it!!!

I'm hopeful we will attract those decent players you speak of that make the full run of it, sprinkle in a few 'first rounders' and start winning some games, big games. (and I know it's not that simple) Getting back to a Regional has to be paramount; next year in Manchester? I dunno...I hope so? I'm dreaming?

Still say it's worth it to play for the 'Cats...so much to offer here and I hope they (future skaters) see it..Like Greg says, the turn around will happen...
 
Last edited:
HockeyRef said:
Good points...the thing is, regarding teams like BC who ARE obviously gonna attract those first rounders, even with defections, they still make out ok. Why? Because...more first rounders wanna play for BC! So it's almost like they never 'run out' of that talent. UNH, on the other hand, does attract and get, great players like Andrew P, but, Andrew P, doesn't (and he's just an example here) stay around long, so what happens next when we don't have skaters to fill those shoes? At least, I think that's what you are getting at. (I still think we will be ok next year btw...hopeful players like Eiserman take off, McNick, Nazarian, Vela, a newbie has a stellar start...Cleland on D has a monster Senior year)
Click to expand...

It is where a solid base of talent helps carry you through a Poturalski leaving. UNH doesn't have that solid base any longer. Spring 1997 Eric Nicholas (29G-22A) left early and in 1998 UNH returned to the frozen 4 for the first time in 16 years. Spring 1998 Derek Bekar (32G-28A) left early and UNH made the title game... oh if he had stayed.

BC has less talented years and more talented years, generally they have a structure where they know X player is likely a two year guy and there is another 2-3 year guy coming in.

This is were the overall strategy about "how we win" is important. Players are skilled, fast, big, (smart, tenacious, etc.) if they are top of the game in all those qualities they are 18 year old NHLers. So what is the strategy for acquiring players? For UNH it used to be skill and fast we will figure the size problem out. Current roster was shockingly slow for UNH.

HockeyRef said:
After much reflection on UNH's past, through posts on this board and also my own gleanings, we WERE that program but

other 'stuff' (fill in your own blanks, you know you want to) have changed the landscape for us.
Click to expand...

I believe it was other 'stuff'. If you look at Borek's track record at the DI level he has taken over talented teams and the talent has dropped. He did identify some top talent and got it to UNH but the overall roster talent level dropped.
Do I believe Umile wasn't much help? YUP.
Do I believe it is Borek's fault alone? NOPE.
Do I think there is an uncomfortable coincidence about talent LSSU 1995 to 2001 and UNH 2002 to 2015 with one common denominator? YUP

HockeyRef said:
Some here will probably want to point out these are 'excuses'..maybe they are but it's all I got. Whatever it is...time to pick up that dropped ball (don't have a hockey equivalent?) and run with it!!!

Still say it's worth it to play for the 'Cats...so much to offer here and I hope they (future skaters) see it..Like Greg says, the turn around will happen...
Click to expand...


This is Dan's point exactly. It has been done before here and is still done at places with lesser facilities, harder admissions, etc. Stop making excuses and do or get out of the way.
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

JB said:
It is where a solid base of talent helps carry you through a Poturalski leaving. UNH doesn't have that solid base any longer. Spring 1997 Eric Nicholas (29G-22A) left early and in 1998 UNH returned to the frozen 4 for the first time in 16 years. Spring 1998 Derek Bekar (32G-28A) left early and UNH made the title game... oh if he had stayed.

BC has less talented years and more talented years, generally they have a structure where they know X player is likely a two year guy and there is another 2-3 year guy coming in.

This is were the overall strategy about "how we win" is important. Players are skilled, fast, big, (smart, tenacious, etc.) if they are top of the game in all those qualities they are 18 year old NHLers. So what is the strategy for acquiring players? For UNH it used to be skill and fast we will figure the size problem out. Current roster was shockingly slow for UNH.



I believe it was other 'stuff'. If you look at Borek's track record at the DI level he has taken over talented teams and the talent has dropped. He did identify some top talent and got it to UNH but the overall roster talent level dropped.
Do I believe Umile wasn't much help? YUP.
Do I believe it is Borek's fault alone? NOPE.
Do I think there is an uncomfortable coincidence about talent LSSU 1995 to 2001 and UNH 2002 to 2015 with one common denominator? YUP



















































































































This is Dan's point exactly. It has been done before here and is still done at places with lesser facilities, harder admissions, etc. Stop making excuses and do or get out of the way.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your insights JB...can you explain what LSSU stands for please? UNH has always been known for their speedy forwards; I like the speed of Ara Nazarian; he seems like the UNH forward 'prototype' you speak of. Now if you look at PC's Brandon Tanev, now there's speed! Haven't really looked at who is coming in this year for speed; maybe we are returning to that model? Also seems like MS is looking for size as well; although we've talked about that here; just get talent please and thank you...
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

HockeyRef said:
Thanks for your insights JB...can you explain what LSSU stands for please? UNH has always been known for their speedy forwards; I like the speed of Ara Nazarian; he seems like the UNH forward 'prototype' you speak of. Now if you look at PC's Brandon Tanev, now there's speed! Haven't really looked at who is coming in this year for speed; maybe we are returning to that model? Also seems like MS is looking for size as well; although we've talked about that here; just get talent please and thank you...
Click to expand...

Lake Superior State University
 
HockeyRef said:
Thanks for your insights JB...can you explain what LSSU stands for please?
Click to expand...

Lake Superior State University

Go look at their history - titles in 1988, 1992, 1994... runner up in 1993. Three straight title games and leading in the 3rd of the sandwich year almost making Maine's 42-1-2 a 41-2-2 footnote. From 88 to 96 - NCAAs every year 6 - 30+ win seasons, one 29 win season and a 23 win season. Then Scott Borek became coach and the slide started.

As another cautionary tale of what can happen in college hockey see Michigan Tech's history. Look how strong that program was 1960 to 1981 - 3 titles, 3 other title games and 3 other trips to the frozen four. Then the 80's, 90's 2000's happened. They finally returned to the NCAAs 34 years and 8 head coaches later. Need the right leader getting the right talent.
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

Darius said:
You're kidding, right? Rand does look like he's wound pretty tight.
Click to expand...

What I heard from St. L fan in 0-0 tie in Hamden (shook hands) and 4-3 OT loss at Appleton (no shake hands), and from BU fan in 4-1 loss in Hamden (no shake hands); dunno about 5-4 loss in second ECAC tourney game against Cornell.
 
Re: UNH Commits & Recruiting: 2016 and Beyond

JB said:
Lake Superior State University

Go look at their history - titles in 1988, 1992, 1994... runner up in 1993. Three straight title games and leading in the 3rd of the sandwich year almost making Maine's 42-1-2 a 41-2-2 footnote. From 88 to 96 - NCAAs every year 6 - 30+ win seasons, one 29 win season and a 23 win season. Then Scott Borek became coach and the slide started.
Click to expand...

Jeff Jackson was HC 1990-1996, with 182-52-25 (0.751) over six seasons, not too shabby.

Scott Borek was HC 1996-2001, with 79-94-15 (0.451) over five seasons.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top