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UNH 2024/2025 Goldberg Edition

Felger said:
The following comment in no way is an attempt to take the current HC off the hook. The buck stops with the guy in the big chair....BUT...the lack of criticism of the rest of the staff is mind boggling. Hypocritical would be a more accurate word. The fans can't have it both ways. On the one hand they minimize Umile's record by attributing his success solely to Lassonde and McCloskey's recruiting and at the same do not hold the current staff at all accountable for the current failures.
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I think 2013 got it right with his response, but here's the thing ... when guys like McCloskey and Lassonde were recruiting for Coach Umile, I strongly suspect they had a lot of latitude in where they went, and who they brought in. Plus, they were recruiting for a program where the HC had established himself as a successful D-1 coach who sent a few of his players to The Show, and otherwise demonstrably developed them for minor league careers on both sides of the Atlantic. I'm not sure it's "minimizing" Umile's accomplishments by simply pointing out that guys like Borek and Tortorella were not quite up to the previous standards of Serino, McCloskey and Lassonde. Not many were/are. And Umile was responsible for bringing all of them on board.

I do realize Stewart is technically a Umile holdover, and of course in retrospect he was probably at least as qualified to be the next UNH HC as MS7 was, with Stewart's work at Merrimack for Mark Dennehy covering some of that program's high-water years. I can't pretend to have any insight into how Dennehy OR Souza work(ed) with Stewart, but I'm pretty sure recruiting for Dennehy was easier than recruiting for a younger guy with no record (initially) to point to at UNH, and then an unimpressive record as MS7 separated from his Umile years, has not been a bowl of cherries for Glenn. At this point, I suspect he's professionally "trapped" by the mediocrity of the Souza Era, and if given a do-over, he may have left a few years ago before things took their current turn.

I know less of Guiliano, but he's a NH kid who chose BC at a time when there was a real choice to be made, won a D-1 title as a supporting player as a junior, and may have seen this as an opportunity to "come home", especially when he would have never gotten a second look at coaching with his alma mater. The Kings (who signed the undrafted Guiliano after graduating from BC) gave him a job in Manchester (Coast level) a year after he retired in Europe, and Guiliano parlayed that into his UNH job. He played at a higher level, and longer too, than his current boss. it looks like he's got his own business (check out who does his testimonial on the website - see link below), so keeping his job at UNH is probably good personal business and keeps his profile where he wants it to be:

Hockey Development

Bringing out the best in Athletes. Developing Hockey Skills, Mental Skills, Strength & Conditioning, and Nutrition. #Want2BGoodorGr8
www.g2phockey.com www.g2phockey.com

FWIW I understand (from reliable sources) Ty Conklin is a former assistant because he clashed with MS7, so there's what I know on Assistant Coach #3.

So both of these guys who are in their "coaching middle ages" are probably still there for different reasons, but having a six figure income with super benefits is nothing to sneeze at for retired minor league hockey guys, and if they have kids, they can be/have been part of their lives, in a somewhat steady destination in a very unpredictable occupation. Both I'm sure are thankful their time at UNH has given them a steady income and manageable family friendly lifestyle, but anyone in the coaching racket understands that things can change quickly. At least for me, even knowing these guys both ultimately are there of their own free will, I find myself being very sympathetic to their causes. Even if (say) they brought in another Stutzle or Commesso ... if your boss can't close, that's not on you, is it? JMHO
 
Chuck Murray said:
I think 2013 got it right with his response, but here's the thing ... when guys like McCloskey and Lassonde were recruiting for Coach Umile, I strongly suspect they had a lot of latitude in where they went, and who they brought in. Plus, they were recruiting for a program where the HC had established himself as a successful D-1 coach who sent a few of his players to The Show, and otherwise demonstrably developed them for minor league careers on both sides of the Atlantic. I'm not sure it's "minimizing" Umile's accomplishments by simply pointing out that guys like Borek and Tortorella were not quite up to the previous standards of Serino, McCloskey and Lassonde. Not many were/are. And Umile was responsible for bringing all of them on board.

I do realize Stewart is technically a Umile holdover, and of course in retrospect he was probably at least as qualified to be the next UNH HC as MS7 was, with Stewart's work at Merrimack for Mark Dennehy covering some of that program's high-water years. I can't pretend to have any insight into how Dennehy OR Souza work(ed) with Stewart, but I'm pretty sure recruiting for Dennehy was easier than recruiting for a younger guy with no record (initially) to point to at UNH, and then an unimpressive record as MS7 separated from his Umile years, has not been a bowl of cherries for Glenn. At this point, I suspect he's professionally "trapped" by the mediocrity of the Souza Era, and if given a do-over, he may have left a few years ago before things took their current turn.

I know less of Guiliano, but he's a NH kid who chose BC at a time when there was a real choice to be made, won a D-1 title as a supporting player as a junior, and may have seen this as an opportunity to "come home", especially when he would have never gotten a second look at coaching with his alma mater. The Kings (who signed the undrafted Guiliano after graduating from BC) gave him a job in Manchester (Coast level) a year after he retired in Europe, and Guiliano parlayed that into his UNH job. He played at a higher level, and longer too, than his current boss. it looks like he's got his own business (check out who does his testimonial on the website - see link below), so keeping his job at UNH is probably good personal business and keeps his profile where he wants it to be:

Hockey Development

Bringing out the best in Athletes. Developing Hockey Skills, Mental Skills, Strength & Conditioning, and Nutrition. #Want2BGoodorGr8
www.g2phockey.com www.g2phockey.com

FWIW I understand (from reliable sources) Ty Conklin is a former assistant because he clashed with MS7, so there's what I know on Assistant Coach #3.

So both of these guys who are in their "coaching middle ages" are probably still there for different reasons, but having a six figure income with super benefits is nothing to sneeze at for retired minor league hockey guys, and if they have kids, they can be/have been part of their lives, in a somewhat steady destination in a very unpredictable occupation. Both I'm sure are thankful their time at UNH has given them a steady income and manageable family friendly lifestyle, but anyone in the coaching racket understands that things can change quickly. At least for me, even knowing these guys both ultimately are there of their own free will, I find myself being very sympathetic to their causes. Even if (say) they brought in another Stutzle or Commesso ... if your boss can't close, that's not on you, is it? JMHO
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If memory serves, Serino and McCloskey were making the trip out to BC long before it was en vogue for the big schools in Boston and Minnesota to do so.

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery...
 
TheGrouchyCat said:
I have to remind myself that MS7 was a third round pick...
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That's three (3) rounds earlier, in a similarly sized NHL, than the LA Kings' 6th round pick FWIW. Too bad Mike couldn't skate like a 3rd round pick. :confused: He missed out on some of the greatest years in Chicago Blackhawks history, where if he made it as a Daniel Winnik grinder type, he could have spent his early to mid 30's skating on Coach Quenneville's bottom six forwards with fellow plumbers like Dave Bolland et als, AND have twice as many Cup rings as TvR has.

BTW that's NOT a "shot" at Conmy. My point has always been, a 6th round pick is a "hit and hope" proposition, these days more than ever, with no one hiding behind the Iron Curtain, etc. Look it up, but I think on average, a 6th round pick has about a 10% chance of getting ANY NHL playing time, much less being able to make a long-term career out of it. Getting drafted is great, most (including Guiliano and Stewart) don't get picked at all ... maybe this take is my "Captain Obvious" moment of the day/month/year to date, but I'm pretty sure Guiliano would have had some involvement in getting Conmy on the Kings' radar.
 
Felger said:
The following comment in no way is an attempt to take the current HC off the hook. The buck stops with the guy in the big chair....BUT...the lack of criticism of the rest of the staff is mind boggling. Hypocritical would be a more accurate word. The fans can't have it both ways. On the one hand they minimize Umile's record by attributing his success solely to Lassonde and McCloskey's recruiting and at the same do not hold the current staff at all accountable for the current failures.
Click to expand...
Recruiting today is much different that 25 -30 years ago. There’s vastly more competition and UNH has far fewer resources. Lassonde and McCloskry had a lot to sell. The whit was probably the number 2 facility in the east 30 years ago. Number 1 was conte. Now the Whit is a detriment most of the time.

Penn st and Arizona state didn’t exist. The facilities are luxurious now compared to 25-30 years ago. UNH just stood still, as NH often does. Watermelon feed on the summer and the golf tournament. Rinse and repeat. Beers and Cox/Langway stories. Now we tell kids the Krog stories. Oh and did you know Souza met his wife at UNH? How could any blue chipper possible resist?
 
Felger said:
The following comment in no way is an attempt to take the current HC off the hook. The buck stops with the guy in the big chair....BUT...the lack of criticism of the rest of the staff is mind boggling. Hypocritical would be a more accurate word. The fans can't have it both ways. On the one hand they minimize Umile's record by attributing his success solely to Lassonde and McCloskey's recruiting and at the same do not hold the current staff at all accountable for the current failures.
Click to expand...

This is fair and it is what caught up to Umile in he end (last 5 years). Umile was known as a great closer. I heard McCloskey say, if he could get them on campus and to meet with Umile the recruit was won. Umile's skill in that situation as a closer was something his recruiters acknowledged. What Umile was not as good at was identifying the talent, his inclination was to go for the hardworking "plugger". The problem is when those pluggers are your top 2 lines and you can't score any goals.

In my opinion Souza gets the blame because he isn't out there, hiding and not winning doesn't help. Well beyond the buck stopping on his desk.

Another topic that came up in the past is UNH admissions. There was a period of time where several high end recruits couldn't get in but could at far more selective universities. In that time period admission became completely rigid on a couple of requirements. One in particular was 2 years of a foreign language where Canadian High Schools at the time only required 1 year to graduate. BC as an example would wave the 2 year requirement because of "other skills". I don't know where that situation stands today and that would be a reasonable complaint in my book from the head coach.
 
Potluck said:
Recruiting today is much different that 25 -30 years ago. There’s vastly more competition and UNH has far fewer resources. Lassonde and McCloskry had a lot to sell. The whit was probably the number 2 facility in the east 30 years ago. Number 1 was conte. Now the Whit is a detriment most of the time.

Penn st and Arizona state didn’t exist. The facilities are luxurious now compared to 25-30 years ago. UNH just stood still, as NH often does. Watermelon feed on the summer and the golf tournament. Rinse and repeat. Beers and Cox/Langway stories. Now we tell kids the Krog stories. Oh and did you know Souza met his wife at UNH? How could any blue chipper possible resist?
Click to expand...
My God are you tedious, still selling the same stale beer. The one thing you mention that holds water is that McCloskey and Lassonde had a lot (more) to sell. It's called a winning program, with a coaching staff that was able to keep winning, keep fans steadily entertained, with a great brand of firewagon hockey, and move the players along to pretty decent professional careers. MS7 offers none of that, unless you have a fondness for obscure Rust Belt dumps in the 'Coast.

The giveaway is your description of Conte as the "Number 1" facility in the East. LOL. It's a basketball arena, first and foremost, with a hockey rink jammed into it, just like its "twin" out in Amherst (Mullins Center, or whatever). If you were color blind, and took down all of the appurtenances in each arena, you would be hard-pressed to tell the two of them apart. Conte's best selling feature for over 20 years was Coach York. Simples. Unless you conveniently forget how badly Count Cedorchuk left that program in a shambles after his two year stint, in between Lenny the Rug and Coach York. Mike Milbury ring any bells, Mike Igor?!?
 
Chuck Murray said:
My God are you tedious, still selling the same stale beer. The one thing you mention that holds water is that McCloskey and Lassonde had a lot (more) to sell. It's called a winning program, with a coaching staff that was able to keep winning, keep fans steadily entertained, with a great brand of firewagon hockey, and move the players along to pretty decent professional careers. MS7 offers none of that, unless you have a fondness for obscure Rust Belt dumps in the 'Coast.

The giveaway is your description of Conte as the "Number 1" facility in the East. LOL. It's a basketball arena, first and foremost, with a hockey rink jammed into it, just like its "twin" out in Amherst (Mullins Center, or whatever). If you were color blind, and took down all of the appurtenances in each arena, you would be hard-pressed to tell the two of them apart. Conte's best selling feature for over 20 years was Coach York. Simples. Unless you conveniently forget how badly Count Cedorchuk left that program in a shambles after his two year stint, in between Lenny the Rug and Coach York. Mike Milbury ring any bells, Mike Igor?!?
Click to expand...
That's the truth. The place sucks as a hockey arena. They couldn't even design the rink layout to be "fair". That's why Parker used to insist on splitting the 3rd period direction of play.
 
Chuck Murray said:
That's three (3) rounds earlier, in a similarly sized NHL, than the
Click to expand...

e.cat said:
What's curious to me is that if the state of UNH hockey is so bad why isn't there a mass exodus of players to the portal?🤷
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Because, most of the team graduated and scholarship money is scholarship money.

Just because you enter the portal doesn't mean there is a guarantee another team wants you...
 
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TheGrouchyCat said:
Great question.

It can be a risky move, if you're not a sure fire player with an established reputation. Other players may not have a choice; lost scholarship, new coach or simply not asked back could all be factors.
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Most of UNH players that have been in the portal have gone to a Div3 school that just show's you lack of planning in the recruiting. As for the asst coaches I would can both of them. Souza needs Ass coaches that can recruit period and both have failed.
 
TheGrouchyCat said:
Because, most of the team graduated and scholarship money is scholarship money.

Just because you enter the portal doesn't mean there is a guarantee another team wants you...
Click to expand...
It's probably a bit more complicated than that. So the question is what motivates a player to enter the portal?
 
Robert Balin said:
Most of UNH players that have been in the portal have gone to a Div3 school that just show's you lack of planning in the recruiting. As for the asst coaches I would can both of them. Souza needs Ass coaches that can recruit period and both have failed.
Click to expand...
Is this true? I remember a couple going D3 but the majority I can recall have gone D1.
 
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