UNH 2021 Off-Season Thread: Finally!?!

[Chuck Murray]

Brief item appeared in today's Union Leader confirming and discussing Robinson's return to UNH:

Chris Duffy's Editor's Notebook: Robinson returning | Sports Columns | unionleader.com

 

[HockeyRef]

As per C-H-C Eric MacAdams will return for a 5th year!

 

[Chuck Murray]

Early reports from Orono indicate Ben Barr is going to be announced today as the new UMaine coach. Will this force MS7 and his boss to up their games substantially in order to keep up with our nearby rivals? Or will BS+infinity keep whistling a happy tune in denial of what's going on with what used to be UNH's flagship athletic program?? Discuss ...

 

[HockeyRef]

Early reports from Orono indicate Ben Barr is going to be announced today as the new UMaine coach. Will this force MS7 and his boss to up their games substantially in order to keep up with our nearby rivals? Or will BS+infinity keep whistling a happy tune in denial of what's going on with what used to be UNH's flagship athletic program?? Discuss ...

Well, I don't know what/ how the hiring of a coach can really make a difference about what UNH coaches do, if I'm being honest. If it is indeed Ben Barr (which Jeff Cox and others are saying it is) then he brings a winning formula to a school that was once a powerhouse. If there such a thing as 'muscle memory' when it comes to playing in the big games; not sure what Maine has coming back, then sure, this is a big shot in the arm. As anyone who has ever picked up a program from someone else, you know the first year is spent alot like the year before as the new ideas take hold and new comers find their way.

it will most likely take some time to get the program back to its former glory kind of thing. It took Carvel and co 5 years to claim the big prize so it remains to be seen what and if this new coach can do the same. And knowing zip about the UMaine resources and so many other things, who knows the time table? So going back to your question Chuck on whether or not UNH feels compelled to do things in a different way 'up their game' etc....I do believe one thing: that if you keep doing what are doing you will keep getting what you're getting good, bad or ugly. We'll see. I do not see this as a 'motivating force' for change at the U if that's what you are getting at.

So, I guess that's my take on things at the U. I remain hopeful, tho. I'm excited that Robby and Mac are coming back for next season and perhaps the loss of Angus might be mitigated. Love the incoming roster and the experienced gained by others this past season can only help. And besides, 'success is an inside job' so looking outside at what everyone else is doing to me is a big waste of time...(and if you think this makes a case for a coaching change...not gonna happen)

Ps...I believe Carvel came to UMass with the premise that he had pretty much carte blanch to do what he wanted to do, had the resources, had Cale Makar already coming, which was huge. Ryan Blandford (UMass AD) seemed to be very willing to do 'whatever it took' to get that program humming. Not sure what the UMaine AD has in store for this new coach??? More insight to the program and how it works over there...

 

[Chuck Murray]

Thanks for jumping in with both feet, 'Ref. Lots to unpack in your post, so let's get started ...

Well, I don't know what/ how the hiring of a coach can really make a difference about what UNH coaches do, if I'm being honest. If it is indeed Ben Barr (which Jeff Cox and others are saying it is) then he brings a winning formula to a school that was once a powerhouse. If there such a thing as 'muscle memory' when it comes to playing in the big games; not sure what Maine has coming back, then sure, this is a big shot in the arm. As anyone who has ever picked up a program from someone else, you know the first year is spent alot like the year before as the new ideas take hold and new comers find their way.

I'm sure there is "muscle memory" for Coach Barr, but I'm sure he'll have to go through the entire growth process again with his new program. Once upon a time, you could probably make an argument that UMaine's "muscle memory" resided with Coach Standbrook, even through the late Whitehead era, but like at UNH, their time at or near the top of HEA, much less D-1 overall, is nothing but a fading memory. Kudos to UMaine for trying to jump-start the process of moving back up the competitive pyramid in Men's Hockey, though. UNH would be wise to emulate them, but ...

it will most likely take some time to get the program back to its former glory kind of thing. It took Carvel and co 5 years to claim the big prize so it remains to be seen what and if this new coach can do the same. And knowing zip about the UMaine resources and so many other things, who knows the time table? So going back to your question Chuck on whether or not UNH feels compelled to do things in a different way 'up their game' etc....I do believe one thing: that if you keep doing what are doing you will keep getting what you're getting good, bad or ugly. We'll see. I do not see this as a 'motivating force' for change at the U if that's what you are getting at.

We agree 100% on the bolded part. I truly hope you are wrong about this not being a "motivating force for change" at UNH, but with apathy oozing from every last pore in BS+infinity's body, capiche.

So, I guess that's my take on things at the U. I remain hopeful, tho. I'm excited that Robby and Mac are coming back for next season and perhaps the loss of Angus might be mitigated. Love the incoming roster and the experienced gained by others this past season can only help. And besides, 'success is an inside job' so looking outside at what everyone else is doing to me is a big waste of time...(and if you think this makes a case for a coaching change...not gonna happen)

I'd be more excited about this year if Crookshank was coming back, and the two others weren't. I like MacAdams, but he's nothing more than a depth player in a successful program, and will likely be punching way above his weight somewhere in the top six forwards this season. Robinson has proven himself to be an average-at-best D-1 goalie over his career to date. "Relieved" or even "happy" to see both returning this season, but "excited" is a little over the top.

Ps...I believe Carvel came to UMass with the premise that he had pretty much carte blanch to do what he wanted to do, had the resources, had Cale Makar already coming, which was huge. Ryan Blandford (UMass AD) seemed to be very willing to do 'whatever it took' to get that program humming. Not sure what the UMaine AD has in store for this new coach??? More insight to the program and how it works over there...

... and this is where the rubber hits the road. Yes, we'll see what UMaine AD Ken Ralph has planned for Coach Barr's new revamp of the UMaine program, but the folks in Amherst have set the bar high, and a lot of that is down to getting the AD to support an unapologetic push for success at the highest levels. It's important to remind ourselves that when UNH's current genius AD came into his job, its Hockey programs were flying high, and national contenders on a regular basis. He was able to coast on past glories for awhile, but over time that's been stripped away, and now we have exposed him as someone who has proven himself to be clueless in the ways of building and maintaining a successful hockey program (he's 0 for 2 now). I'm not sure he gets any credit for Football either, other than getting them a neat new stadium. Hoops is still stagnant in mediocrity. The emperor has no clothes. When does UNH realize this? And if do they realize it, when do they act upon it?

Will it take UMaine coming down to Durham in 2023 to wax the 'Cats 8-0 to convince folks?

 

[Whalers]

Isn't the men's soccer program the flagship sport in Durham these days? Very sad, because they would be hard pressed to get 6,501 fans for the entire season vs 1 sell out at the Whitt (who remembers what those days even felt like?).

The very TOP of the UNH administration, much higher up than the AD, has to take a page out of Lee Iaccoaca's playbook - Lead, Follow, or Get out of the Way. This should be THEIR decision as most of their job description is bringing money into the university and the lack of paying customers is a HUGE drain on the overall budget. The UNH faithful need to DEMAND that they do the first or second choice, because they have been only producing the third for the last 6+ years. Souza and the AD missed the boat when they did the stupid 3 year hand-off which can only lead to a continuation of the current versus a hard reset. Chuck, NCAA Watcher and many others pointed this out on here for most to see, if they were looking.

With the success of UMass and other HE programs who have done the hard reset, I have to believe that Maine will do the same as well. They have nothing to lose and a brand new barn to gain if they can pull off a Downeast reboot, start winning big and awaken the glory days.

UNH, time to put the emphasis on getting asses in the seats. Not to sell more hot-dogs or get little kids with face's painted, but to win back the ardent fan and to nurture the next generation of faithful followers who will happily pay the ticket freight moving forward. WINNING is the only way to do this and to start the process, the UNH Admin and Blue Skies needs to rip off the band-aid that was placed on the program 6+ years ago. Tear it off, scream OUCH on T-Hall's front lawn and get on with the healing.

 

[Chuck Murray]

The very TOP of the UNH administration, much higher up than the AD, has to take a page out of Lee Iaccoaca's playbook - Lead, Follow, or Get out of the Way. This should be THEIR decision as most of their job description is bringing money into the university and the lack of paying customers is a HUGE drain on the overall budget. The UNH faithful need to DEMAND that they do the first or second choice, because they have been only producing the third for the last 6+ years. Souza and the AD missed the boat when they did the stupid 3 year hand-off which can only lead to a continuation of the current versus a hard reset. Chuck, NCAA Watcher and many others pointed this out on here for most to see, if they were looking.

To be fair to 'Watcher, I was at least initially ambivalent towards the now-infamous six year plan, and was willing to give MS7 a chance to prove himself. 'Watcher always said it was the vanity project from he11. Eventually, as those final three Umile years become a train wreck, I was brought around to thinking it was a horrible plan - unless absolutely necessary to get out from under Captain Turtleneck's lifetime deal - but now that it's a fait accompli, there's very little reason not to "rip off the bandaid" as you suggest later in your post. I'll always like MS7 as a player who showed up in the biggest games, but there's very little evidence on hand to date that his coaching OR recruiting abilities are going to lead his alma mater out of the competitive boonies anytime soon.

Barr's hire at UMaine just lengthens the line of HEA programs UNH needs to leapfrog by one more school. It'll now be down to UNH, UVM and Merrimack at the bottom - if not now, soon enough - and if there's any silver lining here, it will also be another program leapfrogging Luce down in Storrs. Because when your program is irrelevant/DOA, I worry about stupidity like that ...

 

[Whalers]

As Chuck points out, with Maine's hiring of Barr, the Hockey East competitive deck is stacking up against UNH. How will they (UNH Admin, the AD) and Souza address the situation? The burner under the coaching seat better have been turned up a few notches to at least medium simmer. There MUST be some new news coming from the program, and fast, to show that we are not keeping business as usual because it ain't working.

I think the best answer would be cutting some of the current scholarship lumber or commitments loose. Not the best for PR in the short term, but at least it shows you plan to do something bold and not stand pat. Will wake up the current players that a new day is here, free up some space and scholly money and then get in the transfer portal to see what equals or upgrades are available. Easier said than done, but not doing anything would be the worst move. Let's not hear that we have a plan in place that is just about to blossom with results. It hasnt for 6+ years, time for a bold plan, or a fresh, new answer. Just like they have in Orono.

 

[HockeyRef]

As Chuck points out, with Maine's hiring of Barr, the Hockey East competitive deck is stacking up against UNH. How will they (UNH Admin, the AD) and Souza address the situation? The burner under the coaching seat better have been turned up a few notches to at least medium simmer. There MUST be some new news coming from the program, and fast, to show that we are not keeping business as usual because it ain't working.

I think the best answer would be cutting some of the current scholarship lumber or commitments loose. Not the best for PR in the short term, but at least it shows you plan to do something bold and not stand pat. Will wake up the current players that a new day is here, free up some space and scholly money and then get in the transfer portal to see what equals or upgrades are available. Easier said than done, but not doing anything would be the worst move. Let's not hear that we have a plan in place that is just about to blossom with results. It hasnt for 6+ years, time for a bold plan, or a fresh, new answer. Just like they have in Orono.

...you mean shrinking the rink isn't the answer??? (insert sarcasm)

 

[Whalers]

...you mean shrinking the rink isn't the answer??? (insert sarcasm)

Thank you for reminding me about this critical oversight Hockey Ref, my bad. I forgot this in the middle of my rant, certainly the bold move that is necessary. If this had already been done, plus having the previously installed center ice big screen that also worked recruiting wonders, Morrow's kid would have shown up to Main St 03824 for sure.

 

[Dan]

If there is anyone at UNH who thinks personnel or decision making is a contributing problem I haven’t seen any indication.

Let’s say MacAdams has, by his standards, a very good year. What does that help UNH accomplish? A 7th place finish? That money should be used for the future. Period.

Souza is in over his head - as his resume always suggested. Everyone else seems to think that he’s still some elite recruiting, nice guy prodigy and all of his/their decisions are good ones, with everyone simply hamstrung by the schools ‘shortcomings’ entirely...

Until there Is some recognition of accountability, forget about fixing anything. Maine recognized they needed to do something differently, I’m not sure why anyone would believe UNH feels that way about their situation...

 

[Chuck Murray]

If there is anyone at UNH who thinks personnel or decision making is a contributing problem I haven't seen any indication.

Let's say MacAdams has, by his standards, a very good year. What does that help UNH accomplish? A 7th place finish? That money should be used for the future. Period.

Souza is in over his head - as his resume always suggested. Everyone else seems to think that he's still some elite recruiting, nice guy prodigy and all of his/their decisions are good ones, with everyone simply hamstrung by the schools 'shortcomings' entirely...

Until there Is some recognition of accountability, forget about fixing anything. Maine recognized they needed to do something differently, I'm not sure why anyone would believe UNH feels that way about their situation...

Sad, but altogether way too true.

 

[Snively65]

The very TOP of the UNH administration, much higher up than the AD, has to take a page out of Lee Iaccoaca's playbook - Lead, Follow, or Get out of the Way. This should be THEIR decision as most of their job description is bringing money into the university and the lack of paying customers is a HUGE drain on the overall budget. The UNH faithful need to DEMAND that they do the first or second choice, because they have been only producing the third for the last 6+ years. Souza and the AD missed the boat when they did the stupid 3 year hand-off which can only lead to a continuation of the current versus a hard reset. Chuck, NCAA Watcher and many others pointed this out on here for most to see, if they were looking.

I am just now catching up with this thread. But, I am confused. Are you suggesting that Souza had anything to do with Marty hiring him without Umile's 'Godfather' ultimatum? I always viewed this 3 year hand-off all Umile's doing, his legacy for the next generation of mediocrity, if you will, cynically to make himself look better in retrospect.

It was obvious to me that Souza could not coach when he was in charge of the PP his first year as UNH assistant, and stationed two forwards uselessly behind the net on the 5 on 3, and that stupidity persists to this day.

 

[HockeyRef]

I am just now catching up with this thread. But, I am confused. Are you suggesting that Souza had anything to do with Marty hiring him without Umile's 'Godfather' ultimatum? I always viewed this 3 year hand-off all Umile's doing, his legacy for the next generation of mediocrity, if you will, cynically to make himself look better in retrospect.

It was obvious to me that Souza could not coach when he was in charge of the PP his first year as UNH assistant, and stationed two forwards uselessly behind the net on the 5 on 3, and that stupidity persists to this day.

lol ...everytime I watch a 5 on 3 PP (Pro or College) I can't help but notice that no one seems to use that playbook?

 

[Whalers]

I am just now catching up with this thread. But, I am confused. Are you suggesting that Souza had anything to do with Marty hiring him without Umile's 'Godfather' ultimatum? I always viewed this 3 year hand-off all Umile's doing, his legacy for the next generation of mediocrity, if you will, cynically to make himself look better in retrospect.

Souza was the one who accepted this ridiculous condition that was offered by Marty, but also certainly demanded by Tight Turtleneck. Marty, and more importantly the Admin, should have been strong enough to tell TT thanks for the advice, but not going to happen. Didn't occur and Souza walked in with his eyes wide open and two hands tied behind his back, his choice.

I totally agree with your cynicism about the move and this making the TT era look far better in the rearview mirror. Wouldn't be the first time that this scenario played out in a leadership succession. A good lesson for everyone that you (AD) can ask for the current coach/leaders input, keeping in mind people have a lot of different motives, but best to make YOUR choice because you are the one who ultimately has to live with it.

UNH. Be bold or become irrelevant.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Souza was the one who accepted this ridiculous condition that was offered by Marty, but also certainly demanded by Tight Turtleneck. Marty, and more importantly the Admin, should have been strong enough to tell TT thanks for the advice, but not going to happen. Didn't occur and Souza walked in with his eyes wide open and two hands tied behind his back, his choice.

I totally agree with your cynicism about the move and this making the TT era look far better in the rearview mirror. Wouldn't be the first time that this scenario played out in a leadership succession. A good lesson for everyone that you (AD) can ask for the current coach/leaders input, keeping in mind people have a lot of different motives, but best to make YOUR choice because you are the one who ultimately has to live with it.

UNH. Be bold or become irrelevant.

To round out this discussion ... I don't blame MS7 a second for accepting the job - who among us would reject a promotion to a job at your desired destination, involving a healthy pay raise, to move closer to "home", and be able to return to the place where the highlights of your earlier life played out? Not many, probably. And if there were conditions involved, hey, just get your foot in the door, and then nibble at the edges from Day One to mold things into what you'd want them to be when the plan played out, and ended up in charge. To have passively gone along with the status quo from the outset was Mistake One.

The whole MS7 regime has since been marked with passivity and apathy, at least that's the impression I've gotten, whether it's trite canned coach-speak or refusal to take more aggressive action with recruiting and the roster. I think Barr said more compelling things over 60 minutes yesterday than Souza has said over the last six years, combined. There is no personality I'm able to discern from MS7 either. I want to like him as a coach, and I want him to succeed. But it's not happening, and I don't get the impression that Souza is all that bothered by the state of his program. That's the apathy part. It's almost as if he's keeping his head down to stay out of the spotlight, hoping no one notices that his program is sinking into the abyss.

To recap: MS7 did what he needed to get the job. If just getting the job was his goal, then everything since makes sense. But if his goal was to get the job AND rebuild the program to where it was when he was a player, he's still treading water on the big goal, and I don't see him doing anything new or unique to him to try to get the on-ice performance turned around ...

 

[Dan]

The three year transition was never ideal - we all said so at the time - but I don’t buy that it hamstrung Souza’s tenure. He was brought in to recruit, and sold as a high level recruiter, despite never having a track record of successful recruiting...

Those last three seasons were a glorified ‘victory’ lap for Umile and certainly delayed a turn around, but Souza was the recruiter then (without constraint) and simply did not get the job done. He hasn’t since either...

Awkward circumstances? Certainly. Insurmountable for the right coach? Absolutely not.

Every coach in DI hockey knows the game, is personable and works hard. That’s how they sell Souza, but it’s not nearly enough - it’s the baseline.

Did UMass throw some money at the program? Sure, but Carvel came in and turned that program around through sheer will and want to. If Barr is who everyone thinks he is or can back up his presser than he’ll do the same. Souza has drifted in the wind, selling (at least indirectly) how challenging his job is - it’s not hard to see why the results are different. It’s why this was all entirely predictable to begin with...

The bigger problem is UNH either agrees with him on the challenges and/or doesn’t care enough to change the process...

 

[Chuck Murray]

The bigger problem is UNH either agrees with him on the challenges and/or doesn't care enough to change the process...

I agree with virtually everything in Dan's most recent post, but I've highlighted his conclusion above because I truly believe this is THE big issue we're dealing with at UNH.

For as long as I've been here, UNH has been second fiddle in the state academically behind Dartmouth overall , and it's a comfortable second place mindset that seems to extend well beyond academics. Since Dartmouth is Ivy and UNH is public, UNH whines about funding levels, which seem quite ample regardless, if the building and renovation boom on campus is anything to judge by. Assuming SNHU is seen as the state's 3rd ranking school in terms of reputation and enrollment, UNH looks a lot more like Dartmouth than it does SNHU. Which means that institutionally, UNH isn't really challenged to meet or exceed Dartmouth, nor are they being challenged to improve, lest they be surpassed by the smaller schools elsewhere in the state. A more comfortable second fiddle mindset is hard to imagine.

The arrival of the Manchester Monarchs back at the time of the UNH glory days is another key example. The Monarchs came in with a statewide marketing campaign in the teeth of UNH's fabled thousands-long "wait list" at the time. UNH considered arena expansion for about 15 seconds, then simply slipped back into cruise control, and let the minor leaguers in Manchester nibble away at their fan base for the next decade plus. No big deal, until of course eventually not only did the wait list go away, but empty seats began to bloom at The Whitt. All the while, empty seats were also expanding in Manchester. Did the folks at UNH decide to "get down and dirty" and fight it out in the middle of the state for disaffected hockey fans? Or did they just sit back and assume these hockey fans were disappearing off the face of the earth (or at least from NH)??

The last time anyone at UNH had to fight for anything remotely associated with Hockey was almost 30 years ago when they put the wheels in motion to get The Whitt built. It probably wasn't a coincidence the UNH that fought for (and won) The Whitt would then experience the best passage of the Hockey program's history in the decade or so that followed. Because everyone was invested in that success, and there was pride, and there was happiness. And then ... complacency set in.

Because everything about UNH, right down to its roots, is a haven for complacency.

"We can't compete with (Dartmouth/Monarchs/fill in the blank) so we won't bother."

"We're good enough, and we believe in and support just causes." (barf)

Meanwhile, in Orono, they're talking D-1 national relevance once again.

Down here, we're talking about "Bama Ben Bishop" and 5th year seniors.

Why is that?

Someone should have the guts to ask our esteemed AD, if it doesn't intrude on his naptime ...

 

[Whalers]

Want to see what believing you are 2nd, 3rd or 4th fiddle in a market does for you? Or thinking that some success will magically lead to continued success? Just talk with a Univ of Hartford alum about dropping ALL sports programs down to D3. Yes, from D1 to D3 and they play in the same America East conference as UNH. This is happening the year AFTER they made the NC$$ hoop tournament, you know, that thing that neither the UNH men's or women's hoop program has EVER done.

https://www.fox61.com/article/sport...-iii/520-e654f541-872a-416f-82f2-733b5c18f218

UHartford was the home of Vinnie Baker, the 8th overall pick in the 1993 draft. Played for a number of pro teams, including the Celtics. Success, and the support that comes with it, can fade quickly. Think that it can't happen at UNH? Think that SNHU can't upgrade their sports program to D1 and challenge UNH for a statewide/regional following? They already have an arena, in a bigger market, to use that they pay a handsome penny to brand, and their marketing budget dwarfs the one in Durham. See Also: Grand Canyon Univ.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Success, and the support that comes with it, can fade quickly. Think that it can't happen at UNH? Think that SNHU can't upgrade their sports program to D1 and challenge UNH for a statewide/regional following? They already have an arena, in a bigger market, to use that they pay a handsome penny to brand, and their marketing budget dwarfs the one in Durham.

They also get lots of synergy from their relationship with WMUR (Channel 9). Although certainly not anywhere near as influential as in the past due to huge shifts in how folks consume news, SNHU's teams are on the WMUR sports coverage constantly. Across town, St. Anselm's plays the willing role of UNH, preferring not to engage in such gauche activities, and as a result, SNHU continues to grow, and St. A's has pretty much stagnated. Lots of people in that area don't even know St. A's still exists, other than every four years, for a few weeks before the primaries.

Think it doesn't make a difference? Our daughter has been with a small Manchester area sports-related business, which has cultivated good relations with WMUR sports staff (and beyond), and as a result, they get these little mentions and features often enough that have allowed this relatively new business to quickly overtake their more established local competitors. Costs them next to nothing.

It takes such little extra effort to cultivate these relationships to keep your program (or business) in the public eye, and you just wonder why sometimes folks at UNH just can't seem to bring themselves to pursue these avenues more aggressively? You'd think the AD and higher-ups would want to show their place off to the rest of the state? I know, what a silly silly idea ...