UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

[Felger]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

I am disappointed that no one yet has questioned my suggestion five posts back that the Cats should spend more time on the PK and less time on the PP

I thought it was on par with your recent assertion that Eddie Caron would have made a difference in the 2003 NC game.

 

[Snively65]

I thought it was on par with your recent assertion that Eddie Caron would have made a difference in the 2003 NC game.

In the past week, I became less supportive of spending more time on the PK (less SMT-style play) when I became aware that we did not score a single SHG last season. But, I am still thinking that Eddie Caron might have made a difference in the 2003 NC game, as he showed some promise as a freshman, before becoming a head case, transferring to Yale, before coming back. Maybe the former pre-head case Eddie Caron could have helped keep the puck out of Vanek's hands even a little.

 

[Felger]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

In the past week, I became less supportive of spending more time on the PK (less SMT-style play) when I became aware that we did not score a single SHG last season. But, I am still thinking that Eddie Caron might have made a difference in the 2003 NC game, as he showed some promise as a freshman, before becoming a head case, transferring to Yale, before coming back. Maybe the former pre-head case Eddie Caron could have helped keep the puck out of Vanek's hands even a little.

EC really did generate buzz his first season. I remember a play in the HockeyEast title game against Maine. Nowadays you could play the championship game in some MDC rink in the suburbs and there would probably still be empty seats but back then they really packed the Fleet. Eddie picked up a puck in the Maine zone and curled off the right wing boards to the top of the circle and attempted a shot. There was a palpable buzz among the UNH portion of the 17,000 in attendance. Those were the days.

To me there is only a single "what-if" moment for the 2003 NC game. The puck shouldn't have been in Vanek's hands because UNH should have been playing Michigan not Minnesota. Michigan was the better team for much of the semi-final game and had a 2-0 lead. Sure, Vanek scored the GWG in OT but it was oh so soft. Montoya might have been a decent NHL goalie but that goal he gave up was so Tironesque.

So many games come down to matchups as much as anything else. A mentor of mine once told me "never play another man's game," a mantra that transcends the playing field. In 2003 UNH was a poor man's Minnesota team. I think they could play that game ten more times and the Gophers would win all of them. Just a bad matchup for the 'cats.

But I think a NC contest against Michigan might have been different. I think UNH could have played its game more than against Minny. Obviously we will never know. Plus it would have been the rubber game vs the Wolverines, having met them in '98 and '99. And the game would have been between the two teams that lost in the semis the previous year. Stylistically Michigan reminded me more of the Cornell team UNH beat ito get to the title game. Although I have always thought the story of that game might have been that the stage was too big for Cryin' Mike's Big Red, rather than anything the Wildcats did.

 

[Dan]

So many games come down to matchups as much as anything else. A mentor of mine once told me "never play another man's game," a mantra that transcends the playing field. In 2003 UNH was a poor man's Minnesota team. I think they could play that game ten more times and the Gophers would win all of them. Just a bad matchup for the 'cats.

Except they did play that game THREE times that very season and UNH was 1-1-1 against Minnesota.

Even this game was relatively even until Vanek's goal broke UNH's back and saw the Wildcats lose their composure for a five-minute stretch midway through the third that buried them at 4-1 (before an ENG). It was not the blowout it seemed to be in retrospect.

I don't think it is a big leap AT ALL to believe simply having Lanny Gare (their best all-around player) could have made a big difference in who had the lead with ten minutes to go.

UNHs top 9 that year was incredibly talented - just as much if not more so than MNs. But removing Gare was a big blow to all three lines. Gare was off the first, obviously. Also, Preston Callendar moved from the second to the first, Nathan Martz moved up from the third to center the second and Patrick Foley left the fourth line to join the third unit...

Gare is the biggest missing piece and who knows what happens if he is healthy (he was 2-3--5 against MN in two games earlier that season) but it is also not ridiculous to wonder what a difference Caron could have made if he had not transferred to Yale.

UNHs fourth line that day consisted of three natural defensemen in Tyler Scott, Robbie Barker and Tim Horst. They combined for zero SOG and barely played - offering little and gassing the top three lines. Adding even one more competent, physical and pick possessing forward like Caron could have made a huge difference even in just keeping the top-eight guys fresher for the third period...

Add both Caron and Gare and I think we just might have a title. The difference between the following forward groups is substantial...

ACTUAL
Callendar - Prudden - Hemingway
Collins - Martz - Saviano
Foley - Aikins - Abbot
Scott - Horst - Barker

HYPOTHETICAL
Gare - Prudden - Hemingway
Callendar - Saviano - Collins
Martz - Aikins - Abbot
Foley - Caron - Scott/Horst

---

As a FR Caron scored 6-7--13 on an even deeper offensive skill team led by Darren Haydar. He out produced classmates Callendar and Aikins, who went on to score 130 and 103 career points respectively. Caron's biggest problem from a production stand point was not knowing what he wanted out of college and NCAA hockey; he was constantly changing his mind and uprooting himself, but he had the talent...

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Speaking of 'those were the days' - how about the 'days' when UNH recruiting classes looked like this...

Class of '03
Gare
Hemingway
Prudden
Abbott
Strafford
Truelson

OR Class of '04
Ayers
Saviano
Martz
Foley
Lunesnick
Mounsey
Horst
Scott

OR Class of '05
Collins
Caron
Callendar
Aikins
Teplitsky
Barker
Hoppe

---

They have not been remotely close to a class like this (even '04) in years - and that is why they aren't nationally relevant anymore. Period. They were aggressive and dreamed big then, they should try it again...

 

[Snively65]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

After two really fine posts by Felger and Dan on Sunday morning, Dan's follow up post makes me say "aarrgghh!"

 

[NCAA watcher]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Caron's biggest problem from a production stand point was not knowing what he wanted out of college and NCAA hockey; he was constantly changing his mind and uprooting himself, but he had the talent...

Or if he wanted to be in college hockey


https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-6th-circuit/1485874.html

Plaintiffs Anthony Aquino (“Aquino”) and Edward Caron (“Caron”), were, at the time the complaint was filed, twenty-year-old NCAA hockey players who aspired to play in the NHL. Both players contend that the Van Ryn Rule precluded them from achieving unrestricted free agency and the financial rewards it can confer.   ....  Caron similarly argues that he sought to play in the OHL in 2002-2003, and that he would have signed an OHL contract but for the Van Ryn Rule.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

It's amazing 15 years later, we're still talking about what might have been with Eddie "Hamlet" Caron.

Valid points all … and as 'Watcher points out just below, there were ominous off-ice rumblings going on behind the scenes from virtually the start of Caron's UNH career. I remember catching a whiff of that court case in its early stages from a professional acquaintance, and wondering what it all meant as far as Caron's ability to focus. Back then, I was way better wired into the program than I am now, and there were a few other things percolating where I simply don't want to betray confidences, or in honesty have simply forgotten the details over time.

As Dan points out, EC had a more-than-respectable frosh season (after a slow start), and I even think I recall the specific play against UMaine in the HE Finals that Felgie noted earlier. I traveled to the FF with a bunch of friends, and we somehow ended up in a group discussion with one or both of EC's parents at the arena before the ill-fated UMaine rematch that afternoon out in St. Paul. I remember thinking there didn't seem to be any clouds on the horizon at that moment. But in retrospect, it was the last time the sun ever shone on Caron's UNH career. And the court case didn't go his way either.

 

[NCAA watcher]

Hockey East Writers & Broadcasters Association poll:
1. PC (9) 202
2. BC (8) 200
3. BU (2) 191
4. Northeastern (1) 152
5. Maine 125
6. Massachusetts-Lowell 115
7. Massachusetts 114
8. Connecticut 81
9. Vermont 55
10. New Hampshire 51
11. Merrimack 34

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

I know we were all aware of this, but I wanted to share the official "RIP to the MBPBEGAM" USCHO article:

https://www.uscho.com/2018/10/01/ho...ght-teams-to-make-2019-conference-tournament/

As for the annual HE Writers & Broadcasters preseason poll ...

Hockey East Writers & Broadcasters Association poll:
1. PC (9) 202
2. BC (8) 200
3. BU (2) 191
4. Northeastern (1) 152
5. Maine 125
6. Massachusetts-Lowell 115
7. Massachusetts 114
8. Connecticut 81
9. Vermont 55
10. New Hampshire 51
11. Merrimack 34

... I'll confirm my (predictable) prediction that at least one of UMass and/or UConn will miss the playoffs.

 

[HockeyRef]

I know we were all aware of this, but I wanted to share the official "RIP to the MBPBEGAM" USCHO article:

https://www.uscho.com/2018/10/01/ho...ght-teams-to-make-2019-conference-tournament/

As for the annual HE Writers & Broadcasters preseason poll ...



... I'll confirm my (predictable) prediction that at least one of UMass and/or UConn will miss the playoffs.

HE coach’s poll has UNH at 9th. Lots can happen during a season (trying to be optimistic). Heck I’d be thrilled to make the playoffs! So much rides on how our goal tenders fare I think...and...can we score? Almost show time here we go ‘Cats!!

Ps Senior Marcus Vela attends the HE media day at TD Garden with Coach Souza...I gotta feeling...Captain? Inquiring minds wanna know!

 

[BlackI]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

I know we were all aware of this, but I wanted to share the official "RIP to the MBPBEGAM" USCHO article:

https://www.uscho.com/2018/10/01/ho...ght-teams-to-make-2019-conference-tournament/

As for the annual HE Writers & Broadcasters preseason poll ...



... I'll confirm my (predictable) prediction that at least one of UMass and/or UConn will miss the playoffs.

You really believe Merrimack is that good?

 

[Snively65]

You really believe Merrimack is that good?

Not speaking for Chuck, but I think that it will be Merrimack, UVM, and Yukon not making the HEA playoffs this season.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Not speaking for Chuck, but I think that it will be Merrimack, UVM, and Yukon not making the HEA playoffs this season.

Merrimack, UNH and UMass. UConn a dark horse to slide to allow either UMass or UNH to sneak in.

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Merrimack, UNH and UMass. UConn a dark horse to slide to allow either UMass or UNH to sneak in.

Ill never understand why you get so gleeful about failures at UConn and UMass. Perhaps it makes you feel better about UNH, their recent struggles and their chances to break back into the top-half of Hockey East. Im sure you have reveled in UConn's failure to capitalize on some recent recruiting successes and momentum - and perhaps you will ultimately be right about Cavanaugh, who has failed to bring out the best in a talented top-end of hist roster the last few years (Letunov, Thompson, etc). Still, they add some nice players this year and should still succeed at limiting goals against this season. They are a very good bet to make the play-offs because their primary competition for the final spot is UVM and UNH. Would it surprise me if either one snuck past them? No, but UConn is clearly a better bet on paper as we head into the season. They are also 6-0 over the past three seasons against UNH, so credit where credit is due. Neither UVM or UNH appear destined for great seasons. MC has a chance to be absolutely awful...

As for UMass, you could not be more wrong (perhaps not even aware) about what is going on there - both what they were last season and the amount of talent they'll have on the roster this season. UMass is more likely to break into the top tier of HE (BC, BU, PC) this season (as ridiculous as that may sound to you) than they are to miss the playoffs. Their absolute floor is a seventh-place finish, devastating injuries or mid-season departures not withstanding (and it may take devastating to even finish 7th). They'll be picked lower than they deserve because pre-season rankings are often nothing more than a review of the previous season (see someone giving NU a first place vote?!?) - but with Maine and UConn being so-so, NU losing A TON of scoring and UML not being what they have been in recent years UMass has a real chance to fly way up the HE ladder. Sorry to burst your bubble...

Umass returns a FR goalie who posted a .911 SPCT despite playing the entire season behind a team that regularly played 15 or more freshmen and sophomores. While .911 may not seem too notable, his back-up managed just an .892 SPCT in 17 games. Matt Murray can play and behind an improved and more experienced defense he'll be a top-half goaltender in the conference next season. That is if he remains their #1, as they also replaced their sub-par back-up with one of the top U-20 goalies in Finland and a potential member of the country's WJC team this winter...

At UNH we base almost all of our optimism for this coming season on the development of Gildon and Maass, yet if you polled all HE coaches I doubt more than one (Souza) would prefer UNH's top-two defensemen to UMass'. Sophomores Cale Makar and Mario Ferraro (if they play together), will give UMass as dynamic a top-pair as ANY team in the country. Makar should be a pre-season, first-team all-league selection and has the potential to be a HE POY candidate from the back end. Additionally, UMass adds the second- and third-highest scoring defensemen from the USHL last season in Ty Farmer and Marc Del Gazio (as well as a third top-10 USHL scoring D in Colin Felix). Umass will have as mobile a defense as any team in the conference next season. We saw what a difference puck-moving defenseman can make for team defense with UNH last season - Gildon, Maass and Wyse puck moving skills were the biggest key to UNH shaving 32 goals off of their GAA season total in 2018. They also return three more defensemen who played in 30+ games last season, two of which did so as SOs...

At Forward, UMass had SEVEN freshmen score more than 10 points last season, including their all-FR first-line of Leonard (28 pts/33 games), Chaffe (24/39) and (Chau 24/39). As that class takes a typical FR to SO leap, they will add a lot of forward scoring. They also add the second leading scorer from St. Lawrence, in transfer Jacob Pritchard, the USHL Player of the Year and top-scorer in freshman Anthony Del Gazio and a second USHL top-40 scorer in Bobby Trivigno (ask Watcher how rarely UNH adds a Top-40 USHL scorer these days).

UMass may be too young to claim a home-ice spot this year, they may not have the depth or experience of some of their competitors for a third- or fourth-place finish - but barring a disaster outside of their control, they are not missing the playoffs. If you could wager on these things, Id be willing to put a whole lot of money on that one. Next year, Ferraro and Makar will be gone and we'll see how they replace those two - but they have lapped UNH and the rest of the bottom half programs in terms of recruiting and Carvel has them on track to be a consistent top-half of HE program moving forward like it or not.

To reference my previous post - Carvel is the why not us, aggressive, undeterred and skilled (if also somewhat ruthless regarding his current rosters) recruiter UNH had in McCloskey and hasnt had since...

HOCKEY EAST
Tier 1:
PC
BU
BC

Tier 2:
UML
UMass
Maine
NU

BIG Drop to Tier 3:
UConn
UNH
UVM
MC

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Dan, could not agree with you more about UConn/UMass. Greg Carvel and his staff are slowly but surely changing the hockey environment at that school and this year, it will be rewarded I bet with a playoff spot. Like I said in my previous post, lots can change in a season. I'd like to think that Souza and Co are looking to do the same. They've made some changes already with the way the are doing certain things, sure, not naming a Capt doesn't mean it's a big change, but, it's a change. And that doesn't translate into a post season berth, but you get the point.

I'm thinking Coach G's addition will help out on the recruiting end...coz that's where the gravy is and we all understand that. I have faith they are doing all they can to bring the best talent possible to the program. As for UConn? Well, it has been 3 years since we've beaten them. Would love to see that change this season!

In the end we all know it ultimately comes down to having the right mix and the right talent. Facilities don't matter (although UNH could use a better locker room and a players lounge could help). What seems to matter is the right mix of players and coaches who can bring out the best in those players. I believe we are heading in a positive direction but I'm understanding this isn't an overnight thing. I'd venture to say tho that if you wanna contend with the big boys you gotta step up the recruiting so let's see what happens there.

Did anyone see the Jamie Staton /WMUR clip I think a couple of weeks ago? He said "maybe not this year but it will be fun to watch UNH hockey in the near future" which kind of made me wince alittle. Success for me as far as the 'Cats go will be how far they can go and how much they develop. I think that's realistic...and, can we please beat UConn this year?

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Dan, it's this simple. I've been hearing/reading about the imminent and inevitable ascension of the UMass program since they joined the league. And other than a small handful of years under Toot Cahoon, it hasn't happened. There is no hockey culture out there, in what has always been a basketball school first, football school second … and a hockey school well after that. Coach Carvel has done a decent job of improving things since he arrived, but his team barely scraped 8th place last season. He was a .500-ish coach at St. Lawrence, and he's done nothing (yet) to dispel that he's going to be better than a .500-ish coach at UMass (admittedly, no small feat out there). Maybe he's good at shopping for the groceries … but that's only half the job.

Much the same can be said about Luce down in Storrs - another place with no hockey culture - where he seems to have stalled south of the .500 ceiling. Plus, he's an insufferable jackwagon. I have no such animus against Carvel, and stepping back, he's shown me more in one season at Amherst than the modern day Eddie Haskell has in 5 years in Storrs.

All told, in 12 seasons combined, neither Luce nor Carvel have led a program to the NCAA's.

Not even close, really. Even Mark Dennehy (in a HS rink) got Merrimack there once in his 13 years.

I'll stick with my picks, and if I'm wrong, I'll live with it.

 

[Dan]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Dan, it's this simple. I've been hearing/reading about the imminent and inevitable ascension of the UMass program since they joined the league. And other than a small handful of years under Toot Cahoon, it hasn't happened. There is no hockey culture out there, in what has always been a basketball school first, football school second … and a hockey school well after that. Coach Carvel has done a decent job of improving things since he arrived, but his team barely scraped 8th place last season. He was a .500-ish coach at St. Lawrence, and he's done nothing (yet) to dispel that he's going to be better than a .500-ish coach at UMass (admittedly, no small feat out there). Maybe he's good at shopping for the groceries … but that's only half the job.

Much the same can be said about Luce down in Storrs - another place with no hockey culture - where he seems to have stalled south of the .500 ceiling. Plus, he's an insufferable jackwagon. I have no such animus against Carvel, and stepping back, he's shown me more in one season at Amherst than the modern day Eddie Haskell has in 5 years in Storrs.

All told, in 12 seasons combined, neither Luce nor Carvel have led a program to the NCAA's.

Not even close, really. Even Mark Dennehy (in a HS rink) got Merrimack there once in his 13 years.

I'll stick with my picks, and if I'm wrong, I'll live with it.

What is happening at UMass right now certainly appears VERY different than when the program was founded and people raved about its potential for no other reason than it was the flagship school of a hockey talent rich state. Its VERY different then when a mediocre coach (but a nice guy everyone loved while he was at BU) took over and people thought they'd win because they liked him. Carvel inherited an 8-win program that was as bad as it gets at the DI level outside of the dregs of Atlantic Hockey. In his first year he gutted the roster and won just five games, but last season, with a roster almost entirely of FR and SO they won 17 games. This year they return almost everyone from that team and add at least six high-end recruits and an upperclass transfer with nearly 30 career NCAA goals. Expecting them to go backwards seems a strange assumption, but like you said - we'll see...

---

Also, to call him a .500 coach at SLU is a little disingenuous - yes, he was just 86-82-18 at SLU - but in his final two years in Canton he was 20-14-3 and 19-14-4 (total .583 winning-percentage those last two seasons), after inheriting a downward trending program. For all the whining we do about how hard it is to win at UNH, winning at St. Lawrence is a legitimately difficult job and he did so in 3 of 4 seasons. Look what SLU has become, quickly, since he stopped buying the groceries.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Media Day!! Listened to Marcus V and Ara N discuss their expectations of the season. Won’t be long now!!!

 

[Snively65]

Media Day!! Listened to Marcus V and Ara N discuss their expectations of the season. Won’t be long now!!!

Who's going to Hamilton and/or Colorado Springs?