UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

[Snively65]

Solidly under. The two players don't even belong in the same discussion, to be honest.

You are probably right, Chuck; different positions and different eras.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Do we think that the players will continue to pick the captain and co-captains?

Did we ever know that to be true? Honestly have no idea..

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

You are probably right, Chuck; different positions and different eras.

More than that, Langway was an elite talent, while Winnik has been a journeyman grinder.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Do we think that the players will continue to pick the captain and co-captains?

Did we ever know that to be true? Honestly have no idea..

Ii think the idea players chose captains under Coach Umile is based on reliable sources on this forum.

Having said that, I hope Coach Souza retains the right to make these choices. And I truly hope he decides to change things up and pick an underclassman like Gildon and/or Maass. There's a decent argument to be had, those are your two best returning players, and they probably got more ice time than anyone else (except Tirone) last season. Furthermore, all the seniors and juniors have been part of the worst three-season stretch in the program's history since the mid-1980's. No one in that group stands out (at least not to me), and giving someone in that group the honor of being a "C" would lessen the honor - if indeed there is even "honor" for something that's been handled out too often in recent years like a cheap token to fringe players who spent most of their years as underclassmen wondering if they would even be dressing for the next game.

Seeing how Coach Souza handles this will be interesting. I like that he hasn't already made decision(s).

 

[Ray Dorn]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

With the hockey season getting up and running I figure it is time to get involved with the forum. In regard to the conversation on captains I would like to bring up Anthony Wyse. I did not see his name mentioned earlier, but I feel he will be one of the captains this season.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

With the hockey season getting up and running I figure it is time to get involved with the forum. In regard to the conversation on captains I would like to bring up Anthony Wyse. I did not see his name mentioned earlier, but I feel he will be one of the captains this season.

That is actually I think an excellent choice; I'd be totally behind that. And, yes, the team has picked in the past but there's a new sheriff in town now so will be interesting to see how it all unfolds! Can't wait for the season sorry to get all wonky...lol (good to see you on the board Ray)

 

[Snively65]

More than that, Langway was an elite talent, while Winnik has been a journeyman grinder.

Next thing that you will be saying is that JvR is also a journeyman plodder/grinder?

 

[wildcatdc]

More than that, Langway was an elite talent, while Winnik has been a journeyman grinder.

Perhaps, but he’s also played 800 games over 12 seasons (only 320 or so NHL’ers have topped the 1000 mark, btw), and signed $14,500,000 in contracts during that time, doing what he loves.

Takes 23 to fill out an NHL roster. Not all of them can be first-liners, last I checked.

I’m pretty sure Snively wasn’t comparing them as players, he’s comparing their longevity. And as such, if he gets to 15 seasons, he de facto belongs in THAT conversation

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Perhaps, but he’s also played 800 games over 12 seasons (only 320 or so NHL’ers have topped the 1000 mark, btw), and signed $14,500,000 in contracts during that time, doing what he loves.

Takes 23 to fill out an NHL roster. Not all of them can be first-liners, last I checked.

It's funny … a few years ago I lambasted some of the UMaine-iacs who were trying to pump Bobby Corkum's tires when UMaine was looking for a new coach (when they eventually decided on Red), and they pretty much used the same descriptions you've used for Winnik, i.e. he hung around for many years, and made a lot of money. Wonderful. Looked at their careers and stats in comparison this evening, just for kicks and giggles, and Corkum might as well have been Winnik's NHL twin. Both played on a string of mediocre teams, neither experienced any real postseason success … and Winnik's next playoff goal will be his first.

In the meantime, Langway won a Stanley Cup, one or two Norris Trophies as the first transformative player for what had been a truly pathetic Washington Capitals' franchise up to that point, getting them going in the right direction, and is now a member of the Hockey Hall of Fame.

Also, there were many less teams (hence less available roster slots) in Langway's era, so who knows if the likes of Winnik (or Corkum) would have ever gotten their NHL careers off the ground in Langway's era?

I’m pretty sure Snively wasn’t comparing them as players, he’s comparing their longevity. And as such, if he gets to 15 seasons, he de facto belongs in THAT conversation

Longevity, oh, yeah, there you go. Sorry. Using that measure:

* Winnik and Corkum have both already played more NHL games/seasons than Bobby Orr;
* Winnik's and Corkum's earnings have unquestionably dwarfed those of Langway (and Orr, FWIW)

… and finally …

* Teammates/fellow D-men Gary Doak, Dallas Smith and Rick Smith all played more NHL games than Orr;
* Doak and Dallas Smith both ended up playing more games AND more seasons in Boston than Orr

I'm guessing you wouldn't venture to put any of those guys in any "conversation" about Orr … would you?

Snively65's point is obvious (and accurate). So is mine. I didn't think they were mutually exclusive.

Winnik has had a career he can be proud of. Good for him. I'm sure he would cringe at being compared to Langway, just like veteran NHL regulars who had long and serviceable (if not lucrative) careers like Doak, Smith #20 and Smith #23 would cringe at any comparison, on any level with Bobby Orr.

 

[wildcatdc]

It's funny … a few years ago I lambasted some of the UMaine-iacs who were trying to pump Bobby Corkum's tires when UMaine was looking for a new coach (when they eventually decided on Red), and they pretty much used the same descriptions you've used for Winnik, i.e. he hung around for many years, and made a lot of money. Wonderful. Looked at their careers and stats in comparison this evening, just for kicks and giggles, and Corkum might as well have been Winnik's NHL twin. Both played on a string of mediocre teams, neither experienced any real postseason success … and Winnik's next playoff goal will be his first.

In the meantime, Langway won a Stanley Cup, one or two Norris Trophies as the first transformative player for what had been a truly pathetic Washington Capitals' franchise up to that point, getting them going in the right direction, and is now a member of the Hockey Hall of Fame.

Also, there were many less teams (hence less available roster slots) in Langway's era, so who knows if the likes of Winnik (or Corkum) would have ever gotten their NHL careers off the ground in Langway's era?



Longevity, oh, yeah, there you go. Sorry. Using that measure:

* Winnik and Corkum have both already played more NHL games/seasons than Bobby Orr;
* Winnik's and Corkum's earnings have unquestionably dwarfed those of Langway (and Orr, FWIW)

… and finally …

* Teammates/fellow D-men Gary Doak, Dallas Smith and Rick Smith all played more NHL games than Orr;
* Doak and Dallas Smith both ended up playing more games AND more seasons in Boston than Orr

I'm guessing you wouldn't venture to put any of those guys in any "conversation" about Orr … would you?

Snively65's point is obvious (and accurate). So is mine. I didn't think they were mutually exclusive.

Winnik has had a career he can be proud of. Good for him. I'm sure he would cringe at being compared to Langway, just like veteran NHL regulars who had long and serviceable (if not lucrative) careers like Doak, Smith #20 and Smith #23 would cringe at any comparison, on any level with Bobby Orr.

Ah, there goes ol’ Chuckie changing the narrative. New year, same approach. Yawn.

Snively brought up an interesting point about Winnik’s longevity. You took it in a ridiculous direction, and put your icing on the cake by taking a shot at a career pro from UNH. Par for the course.

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Ah, there goes ol’ Chuckie changing the narrative. New year, same approach. Yawn.

Snively brought up an interesting point about Winnik’s longevity. You took it in a ridiculous direction, and put your icing on the cake by taking a shot at a career pro from UNH. Par for the course.

Ah, good ol' DC … rising to the defense of someone not under attack, and not in need of your "help".

Let's be honest, we're all in preseason mode. Snively65's just trying to keep the content fresh, I'm just trying to incite some discussion, and you've gallantly risen to the <s>bait</s> challenge.

It's all about "Know Your Role" …

 

[Darius]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Let's be honest, we're all in preseason mode.

Keeping with the spirit...

...I hope Coach Souza retains the right to make these choices. And I truly hope he decides to change things up and pick an underclassman like Gildon and/or Maass. There's a decent argument to be had, those are your two best returning players, and they probably got more ice time than anyone else (except Tirone) last season. Furthermore, all the seniors and juniors have been part of the worst three-season stretch in the program's history since the mid-1980's. No one in that group stands out (at least not to me), and giving someone in that group the honor of being a "C" would lessen the honor - if indeed there is even "honor" for something that's been handled out too often in recent years like a cheap token to fringe players who spent most of their years as underclassmen wondering if they would even be dressing for the next game.

Spot on. Vela's hard hitting feistiness may demonstrate leadership qualities. Hard to say without being around him. He would be the safe pick, but if it doesn't work out then it looks like more of the same. If underclassmen don't work out, Souza gets a pass for trying. Regardless of whether he wears a letter, Vela should be a leader this season.

More than that, Langway was an elite talent, while Winnik has been a journeyman grinder... Winnik has had a career he can be proud of. Good for him. I'm sure he would cringe at being compared to Langway, just like veteran NHL regulars who had long and serviceable (if not lucrative) careers like Doak, Smith #20 and Smith #23 would cringe at any comparison, on any level with Bobby Orr.

We are all pretty much saying the same thing here, right? I will never forget the first time I saw Winnik on the Whitt ice, instantly knowing he was a special 'cat. Langway was, at every hockey level, THE MAN. Langway and Winnik at the NCAA level were both THE 'CATS!

 

[Dan]

I don't think who is named captain impacts the season much beyond who we see speak to the press most often - though I'll guess Wyse as the C, Vela and Boyd as A's.

The key to this season is all about how much the better players have developed. Not whatever symbolic leader they're supposed to follow...

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Keeping with the spirit...

Spot on. Vela's hard hitting feistiness may demonstrate leadership qualities. Hard to say without being around him. He would be the safe pick, but if it doesn't work out then it looks like more of the same. If underclassmen don't work out, Souza gets a pass for trying. Regardless of whether he wears a letter, Vela should be a leader this season.

I don't think who is named captain impacts the season much beyond who we see speak to the press most often - though I'll guess Wyse as the C, Vela and Boyd as A's.

The key to this season is all about how much the better players have developed. Not whatever symbolic leader they're supposed to follow...

Mostly agree with both of you, although I think Darius touches on the "message" component of the issue a little closer to my thoughts. You know, like the saying goes, you only get one chance to make a good first impression? Shake things up a little, and to Dan's point, even if it's more symbolic than substantive, what's the problem? On the other hand, maybe you give one or both of the returning front-line soph defenders a little more reason to buy into a project that lasts longer than one season?

It's not as heartless as cutting underperforming seniors and juniors from the program (as he could), but it's also not same old, same old automatically rewarding one or more of them "just because", either. Say what you will, but the two most catastrophic choices for UNH captaincy coincided with the two worst seasons of the Umile era. As I've said before, I'm pleased that Coach hasn't chosen captains yet, and I think that sends a message already, in and of itself.

I'm thinking that while I don't expect 2018/2019 to be a successful season on-ice for UNH, we're all going to be measuring it differently, and it's going to be a very interesting season that way. No doubt, Dan is right, with the low level of performance last year, any short-term improvement is going to be all about getting more out of the current cast of characters, as we can't expect frosh newbies (and a rookie head coach) to key a miraculous turnaround in short order. JMHO.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Know what HR wonders about most? The goal tending...

 

[Snively65]

Keeping with the spirit...

Spot on. Vela's hard hitting feistiness may demonstrate leadership qualities. Hard to say without being around him. He would be the safe pick, but if it doesn't work out then it looks like more of the same. If underclassmen don't work out, Souza gets a pass for trying. Regardless of whether he wears a letter, Vela should be a leader this season.

We are all pretty much saying the same thing here, right? I will never forget the first time I saw Winnik on the Whitt ice, instantly knowing he was a special 'cat. Langway was, at every hockey level, THE MAN. Langway and Winnik at the NCAA level were both THE 'CATS!

And, lest we leave out JvR, who has two fewer NHL seasons than Winnik (9 vs 11), and 189 fewer games (609 vs 798), yet has more points (393) than either Winnik (251) or Langway (329, in 994 games). And, mostly as a third line plodder for JvR, right, Chuck?

 

[Snively65]

Know what HR wonders about most? The goal tending...

Tirone ain't coming through that door.

 

[HockeyRef]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

Tirone ain't coming through that door.

Well I look forward to see how the rotation goes and who's gonna win out the 'top spot'. This season there's no reason NOT to have a legit rotation to see who's gets the nod. Imagine that the opening weekend at Colgate will be a good way to see how this is going to look. As for DT? He gave his all and I'll miss his dedication to the position. Regardless of how you feel about his ability on any given night you can't fault him for his work ethic. Moving on!

 

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

And, lest we leave out JvR, who has two fewer NHL seasons than Winnik (9 vs 11), and 189 fewer games (609 vs 798), yet has more points (393) than either Winnik (251) or Langway (329, in 994 games). And, mostly as a third line plodder for JvR, right, Chuck?

For you, JvR has been upgraded by WIS to a "second line stud" who still flatters to deceive far too often.

I'll admit, the gap between Langway down to JvR is smaller than the gap between JvR down to Winnik.

Well I look forward to see how the rotation goes and who's gonna win out the 'top spot'. This season there's no reason NOT to have a legit rotation to see who's gets the nod. Imagine that the opening weekend at Colgate will be a good way to see how this is going to look. As for DT? He gave his all and I'll miss his dedication to the position. Regardless of how you feel about his ability on any given night you can't fault him for his work ethic. Moving on!

I'm not saying - nor did I ever claim - Tirone was one of the all-time UNH greats between the pipes. I've always said - and will continue to say - he was better than many on here gave him credit for.

I'm hoping Taylor proves to be the "real deal". Anything they get out of Robinson will be a bonus IMO.

 

[Snively65]

For you, JvR has been upgraded by WIS to a "second line stud" who still flatters to deceive far too often.

I'll admit, the gap between Langway down to JvR is smaller than the gap between JvR down to Winnik.

I'm not saying - nor did I ever claim - Tirone was one of the all-time UNH greats between the pipes. I've always said - and will continue to say - he was better than many on here gave him credit for.

I'm hoping Taylor proves to be the "real deal". Anything they get out of Robinson will be a bonus IMO.

Good to have you on board with JvR, Chuck. I should have noted earlier that JvR has earned a lot of his points recently by going to dirty areas in front of the net, especially on the PP, where he takes a pounding.

Agreed on Taylor; we need him to come in flashing the leather immediately, as I have been disappointed in what little I have seen from Robinson so far.