Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?
Looks like they may not...you might be waiting until June.
Looks like they may not...you might be waiting until June.
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UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?
- Thread starter Nifty16
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Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?
I will never understand this idea that White is somehow 'obligated' to the Jets and cannot tear himself away to take the job at UNH. I suppose it comes from the need to rationalize the idea that UNH is making the right decisions and taking the steps needed to get back to the top of HE - but this scenario, to me, paints a picture that once again they don't understand the depth to which the program has sunk (and the urgent need to turn it around quickly). White is the COLLEGE FREE AGENT SCOUT. College hockey is over for the year - Winnipeg has pro scouts. They also have an army of additional scouts who can help the pro scouts during the playoffs. We all assume he's the guy - and it sure seems clear he is - which means he is staying in Winnipeg because he would rather enjoy the potential cup run than get to work in Durham. And the UNH head coach thinks its cooler for him to enjoy the potential cup run than to get to work in Durham - where A LOT of work is needed. The correct answer, when White indicated he couldn't have come immediately, would have been - thank you, I guess the timing just isn't right. Good luck...
When Walter McCarty took the Evansville job he left immediately. He didn't hang around to finish the season with the Celtics and he was an actual assistant coach. Coaching and recruiting is a job where you're hired and you have to get to work immediately or you are behind (and one where there are no hard feelings from your existing employer when you do). At Miami, they posted after UNH and have already made TWO hires (and flipped a handful of recruits). In the time period of the search they hired an interim assistant coach to do the job - because its critical and a lot of work. It is a lot of work for three coaches and full-time 'volunteers'. Its way too much work for two coaches to do alone - especially during the most critical recruiting periods of the year (even more so when it lines up with recruiting being the most glaring need for the program). This is simply, not good decision making, there is no way around it...
None of this even addresses the hire - which would be a comfortable and friendly hire and not one that moves the needles UNH needs to move. They would end up with a staff full of coaches who have NEVER had real recruiting success at the college level - convincing high-level players, parents OR recruiting advisors to send their kids to their schools. We should all hope this argument is for not and they have decided to pursue other candidates - because whether White arrives in Durham in a week or a month, he just isn't the high-end recruiting sidekick we've all been clamoring for since Souza's arrival. Quite honestly, he's not even the best choice on the Winnipeg Jets staff...
And even if one wants to put all his eggs in the advisors make decisions blindly for the prospects myth - they certainly don't do so just because they know a guy. They offer advice based on how a program has proven to develop players for the next level and because they win and offer exposure. UNH (and especially the new staff) still has a lot of work to do in those areas - dirty work - before advisors begin to just throw prospects in their direction...
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JB's approach nails it - 100%. The unfortunate reality is this: before you can sell those types of visions you actually have to believe it yourself...
Looks like they may not...you might be waiting until June.
I will never understand this idea that White is somehow 'obligated' to the Jets and cannot tear himself away to take the job at UNH. I suppose it comes from the need to rationalize the idea that UNH is making the right decisions and taking the steps needed to get back to the top of HE - but this scenario, to me, paints a picture that once again they don't understand the depth to which the program has sunk (and the urgent need to turn it around quickly). White is the COLLEGE FREE AGENT SCOUT. College hockey is over for the year - Winnipeg has pro scouts. They also have an army of additional scouts who can help the pro scouts during the playoffs. We all assume he's the guy - and it sure seems clear he is - which means he is staying in Winnipeg because he would rather enjoy the potential cup run than get to work in Durham. And the UNH head coach thinks its cooler for him to enjoy the potential cup run than to get to work in Durham - where A LOT of work is needed. The correct answer, when White indicated he couldn't have come immediately, would have been - thank you, I guess the timing just isn't right. Good luck...
When Walter McCarty took the Evansville job he left immediately. He didn't hang around to finish the season with the Celtics and he was an actual assistant coach. Coaching and recruiting is a job where you're hired and you have to get to work immediately or you are behind (and one where there are no hard feelings from your existing employer when you do). At Miami, they posted after UNH and have already made TWO hires (and flipped a handful of recruits). In the time period of the search they hired an interim assistant coach to do the job - because its critical and a lot of work. It is a lot of work for three coaches and full-time 'volunteers'. Its way too much work for two coaches to do alone - especially during the most critical recruiting periods of the year (even more so when it lines up with recruiting being the most glaring need for the program). This is simply, not good decision making, there is no way around it...
None of this even addresses the hire - which would be a comfortable and friendly hire and not one that moves the needles UNH needs to move. They would end up with a staff full of coaches who have NEVER had real recruiting success at the college level - convincing high-level players, parents OR recruiting advisors to send their kids to their schools. We should all hope this argument is for not and they have decided to pursue other candidates - because whether White arrives in Durham in a week or a month, he just isn't the high-end recruiting sidekick we've all been clamoring for since Souza's arrival. Quite honestly, he's not even the best choice on the Winnipeg Jets staff...
And even if one wants to put all his eggs in the advisors make decisions blindly for the prospects myth - they certainly don't do so just because they know a guy. They offer advice based on how a program has proven to develop players for the next level and because they win and offer exposure. UNH (and especially the new staff) still has a lot of work to do in those areas - dirty work - before advisors begin to just throw prospects in their direction...
----
JB's approach nails it - 100%. The unfortunate reality is this: before you can sell those types of visions you actually have to believe it yourself...
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NCAA watcher
Registered User
Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?
I assume they are banking on his connections with the team, its scouts, and advisors to be the best part of his recruiting, so maintaining that is more important. Its an interesting perspective, that focuses not on selling to the kids, but to their network. If so, the extra month isn't going to make or break them. And we don't know that he isn't already working for UNH within that framework, trying to get his colleagues (Euro scouts for the Jets) push their drafts and potential drafts to UNH.
The more interesting part of this was that two recruits, including the USHL rookie of the year, followed him to Miami. Just like when Borek left his recruits followed him or left UNH, but UNH didn't pick up anything in its hire.
It's Mike's job, and let him run it the way he wants. (see point 1, above) That way we don't have to try and dissect how much the results reflect his work or the restraints under which he labored (like we have the past three years). At this point he has chosen that path, so our job is solely to sit back and watch if it works. Who knows, maybe it will work.
I assume they are banking on his connections with the team, its scouts, and advisors to be the best part of his recruiting, so maintaining that is more important. Its an interesting perspective, that focuses not on selling to the kids, but to their network. If so, the extra month isn't going to make or break them. And we don't know that he isn't already working for UNH within that framework, trying to get his colleagues (Euro scouts for the Jets) push their drafts and potential drafts to UNH.
The more interesting part of this was that two recruits, including the USHL rookie of the year, followed him to Miami. Just like when Borek left his recruits followed him or left UNH, but UNH didn't pick up anything in its hire.
It's Mike's job, and let him run it the way he wants. (see point 1, above) That way we don't have to try and dissect how much the results reflect his work or the restraints under which he labored (like we have the past three years). At this point he has chosen that path, so our job is solely to sit back and watch if it works. Who knows, maybe it will work.
Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?
And you think he would lose those connections or they would begrudge him for leaving to begin his new job ASAP - despite the fact that his job with the Jets is already done for the year? That is awfully hard for me to believe...
And you think he would lose those connections or they would begrudge him for leaving to begin his new job ASAP - despite the fact that his job with the Jets is already done for the year? That is awfully hard for me to believe...
So, if Miami's new staff has already flipped some recruits, what does that mean? Probably not the same thing as deferrals, which has not worked well for UNH? Would UNH consider dropping any players from the current roster if last-minute better recruits could be identified? Certainly not the UNH way, but would doing that move the needle? I am still holding out hope that a couple of Euro players are on the way to UNH for this fall.
CollegeHockeyRinkReport
New member
I have zero idea whether or not Mark White will be the new assistant coach at UNH. However, I feel obligated to point out some factual errors in your post:
1) In addition to White’s role as Free agent scout for Winnipeg, he is also responsible for four NHL organizations, Bruins, NYR, NJD and NYI. With Boston still in playoffs, he is responsible for advance scouting of Bruins.
2) Mark White is under contract with the Jets. Again, no idea if he is even leaving Winnipeg gig but if he is, I respect him for having the loyalty to see something through and fulfill his responsibilities with an organization that gave him a chance in pro hockey when he was an assistant at Brown.
Finally, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it sure is funny all the anonymous chirping going on here. Wish people had the fortitude to sign their full names to their comments.
- Jeff Cox
Nick Papagiorgio
Holding court
Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?
It's amazing how wound up some posters get over such trivial nonsense.
A lot of jumping to conclusions without facts. And a lot of talk out of both sides of their rear-end. Like... hey this hire doesn't 'move the needle' but WE NEED HIM RIGHT NOW! Walter McCarty!!! If "A LOT of work is needed" in Durham, does a few weeks really make a huge difference? Of course not.
It's amazing how wound up some posters get over such trivial nonsense.
A lot of jumping to conclusions without facts. And a lot of talk out of both sides of their rear-end. Like... hey this hire doesn't 'move the needle' but WE NEED HIM RIGHT NOW! Walter McCarty!!! If "A LOT of work is needed" in Durham, does a few weeks really make a huge difference? Of course not.
NCAA watcher
Registered User
Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?
Jeff
As UNH fans, we’d all like to hear positive news, so if you have any to share we’re all ears. Any top 02s or 03s we should keep on our radars?
Mike Souza answered that at his March 8th presser, so take it up with him.
We're just judging him by his words.
Jeff
As UNH fans, we’d all like to hear positive news, so if you have any to share we’re all ears. Any top 02s or 03s we should keep on our radars?
Mike Souza answered that at his March 8th presser, so take it up with him.
We're just judging him by his words.
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Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?
Speaking of talking out of rear-ends, I think its amazing what your message board schtick has become. You entire USCHO existence is now rushing to other school's threads to tell them that they don't deserve to, and shouldn't expect to have a place at the competitive table in NCAA hockey for wins or recruits (and as a result should just accept how their program is run). If you couldn't read my post and understand that while I don't think a Mark White hire addresses the needs of the program as I see them (or aligns with what Souza has stated the hire needs to address) AND that if he is the hire than he should be on campus doing the job by now (considering the position opened 9 weeks ago Saturday, the HC again stated a need for haste and the critically important point on the recruiting calendar) than I think that says more about you (in a few ways) than anyone else...
If there is one issue you could take with my post - its the idea that perhaps despite most on the board, most 'sources' of people on the board and most of my own sources indicating that they believe White is the guy, he may not be. Again, UNH's season ended NINE weeks ago. So, it really doesn't matter if its White (though every day someone else is not announced is even more indication it is him), or another candidate I like or dislike - the delay is too long (for whatever the reason) and it is detrimental to a UNH hockey program that already finds itself behind the 8-ball in the recruiting process in so many ways. When a lot of work is needed, Nick, yes every few months (not weeks) is extremely important...
We can be naive and argue loyalty - but we all know how hires are made in the athletic world. ASAP. Walter McCarty is one example. Miami's hires are another. No one understands this more than the organizations themselves.
Speaking of talking out of rear-ends, I think its amazing what your message board schtick has become. You entire USCHO existence is now rushing to other school's threads to tell them that they don't deserve to, and shouldn't expect to have a place at the competitive table in NCAA hockey for wins or recruits (and as a result should just accept how their program is run). If you couldn't read my post and understand that while I don't think a Mark White hire addresses the needs of the program as I see them (or aligns with what Souza has stated the hire needs to address) AND that if he is the hire than he should be on campus doing the job by now (considering the position opened 9 weeks ago Saturday, the HC again stated a need for haste and the critically important point on the recruiting calendar) than I think that says more about you (in a few ways) than anyone else...
If there is one issue you could take with my post - its the idea that perhaps despite most on the board, most 'sources' of people on the board and most of my own sources indicating that they believe White is the guy, he may not be. Again, UNH's season ended NINE weeks ago. So, it really doesn't matter if its White (though every day someone else is not announced is even more indication it is him), or another candidate I like or dislike - the delay is too long (for whatever the reason) and it is detrimental to a UNH hockey program that already finds itself behind the 8-ball in the recruiting process in so many ways. When a lot of work is needed, Nick, yes every few months (not weeks) is extremely important...
We can be naive and argue loyalty - but we all know how hires are made in the athletic world. ASAP. Walter McCarty is one example. Miami's hires are another. No one understands this more than the organizations themselves.
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Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?
If Winnipeg has expressly told White he cannot leave the organization that is a different story. It would still lead me - if I was the HC - to pursue other options based on timing, need and the depths to which UNH has sunk (lets not pretend that another lost recruiting class wont bury them further or that another year in the hole wont make it even more difficult to climb out of). I've been targeted for being negative about UNH recruiting for a long time - I'm still hoping to be made a fool of, but so far things have continued to slide and slide and slide...
Loyalty is easy to respect, but as I said below any common sports fan paying attention would understand how these transactions occur. Organizations especially. People come and go constantly. People leave contracts early all the time to pursue other opportunities. Do you think the Celtics thought McCarty was being disloyal? I bet they wished him well and we're happy for him. How many Winnipeg scouts are done for the year with their four teams and could easily pick up the Bruins in the event they both make the finals? Could White not be hired, focus primarily on his UNH responsibilities and still keep up on the Bruins?
If this delay is such a trivial matter than perhaps you and Nick can explain to me why, Miami has hired its two assistants, UNO has replaced its assistant lost, Minnesota has hired an HC (and then a staff), SCSU has hired an HC and even UAF (despite the cluster of a search) has landed an HC all well within the same timeframe...?? A number of those movers probably had contracts, too. If the Denver thread is correct and Montgomery is heading to Dallas, what are the odds they beat UNH to a hire too? It would certainly help UNH - if they had any designs on poaching a DU recruit (or fallout from other schools who do) - to have a full staff. But, JMHO...
Finally, fear not Jeff - a few posters (and likely at least a few people at UNH) know exactly who I am, many more could figure it out in 20 minutes of research. If Mike Souza would like to sit down and discuss what he's doing at UNH, the obstacles he's overcoming and my concerns I'd be more than happy to do it face to face. I would say exactly what I say here.
If Winnipeg has expressly told White he cannot leave the organization that is a different story. It would still lead me - if I was the HC - to pursue other options based on timing, need and the depths to which UNH has sunk (lets not pretend that another lost recruiting class wont bury them further or that another year in the hole wont make it even more difficult to climb out of). I've been targeted for being negative about UNH recruiting for a long time - I'm still hoping to be made a fool of, but so far things have continued to slide and slide and slide...
Loyalty is easy to respect, but as I said below any common sports fan paying attention would understand how these transactions occur. Organizations especially. People come and go constantly. People leave contracts early all the time to pursue other opportunities. Do you think the Celtics thought McCarty was being disloyal? I bet they wished him well and we're happy for him. How many Winnipeg scouts are done for the year with their four teams and could easily pick up the Bruins in the event they both make the finals? Could White not be hired, focus primarily on his UNH responsibilities and still keep up on the Bruins?
If this delay is such a trivial matter than perhaps you and Nick can explain to me why, Miami has hired its two assistants, UNO has replaced its assistant lost, Minnesota has hired an HC (and then a staff), SCSU has hired an HC and even UAF (despite the cluster of a search) has landed an HC all well within the same timeframe...?? A number of those movers probably had contracts, too. If the Denver thread is correct and Montgomery is heading to Dallas, what are the odds they beat UNH to a hire too? It would certainly help UNH - if they had any designs on poaching a DU recruit (or fallout from other schools who do) - to have a full staff. But, JMHO...
Finally, fear not Jeff - a few posters (and likely at least a few people at UNH) know exactly who I am, many more could figure it out in 20 minutes of research. If Mike Souza would like to sit down and discuss what he's doing at UNH, the obstacles he's overcoming and my concerns I'd be more than happy to do it face to face. I would say exactly what I say here.
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Greg Ambrose
Registered User
Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?
I would say that if he bolted after the team expected him to stay, yes there would be some begrudge there. Especially since this is Winnipeg's first legit shot to win the Cup. They looked very impressive in the split with Nashville, in Nashville. There is something to be said for being a dutiful employee and give an honest days work for an honest day's pay. I knew Mark a bit when he was a player and got to know his father pretty well. Cutting and running is not part of the White DNA, I can tell you that.
I would say that if he bolted after the team expected him to stay, yes there would be some begrudge there. Especially since this is Winnipeg's first legit shot to win the Cup. They looked very impressive in the split with Nashville, in Nashville. There is something to be said for being a dutiful employee and give an honest days work for an honest day's pay. I knew Mark a bit when he was a player and got to know his father pretty well. Cutting and running is not part of the White DNA, I can tell you that.
Greg Ambrose
Registered User
Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?
I do Jeff. And everybody who follows UNH knows who Watcher is, as well as CHC. Welcome aboard.
I do Jeff. And everybody who follows UNH knows who Watcher is, as well as CHC. Welcome aboard.
Speaking of "Expos Forever," what MLB record held by the Expos has been now tied by the Red Sox?
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Appreciate the objectivity here Jeff; speculation without facts and judgments about things we really have no direct knowledge of is always a hallmark of any message board. (I am not pointing any fingers I've most likely done this myself). It does bother me, tho when the integrity of coaches come into question as that seems abit unwarranted (IMHO) but I'll digress...
I'd be happy to give my name (most here know it) but I'm already in enough hot water at the 'Whitt already so I'll leave it at that
. Haha watch it (the new assistant) be someone else all together!
HockeyRef
Well-known member
Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?
Awesome story about Rich's Boyd's journey with Chron's...produced by Dylan Chanter!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGfag-uPYgk
Awesome story about Rich's Boyd's journey with Chron's...produced by Dylan Chanter!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGfag-uPYgk
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?
Most grand slams by a team in the month of April, I believe. God I do miss my 'Spos ... 
BTW - the debate over the presumed hiring of Mark White has made for a good read. Good points, both ways, but right now I'm leaning in Dan's direction. The laissez faire attitude - again, IF this is accurate, and my limited sources suggest it probably is - still smacks of a basic misread of UNH's current station in the D-1 hockey world (i.e. low and still falling), and the overall institutional complacency that's landed them here in the first place.
I'm not sure Coach Souza understands the true scope of the challenge that he's taken on here. Let's put it this way ... at his last two jobs (Brown and UConn) he had built-in excuses for not succeeding:
* At Brown, both he and White were relative newbie assistants at a program with virtually no history ... so even if you tread water, that might not be considered a "fail";
* At UConn, Souza was an assistant in a program that was a newcomer to D-1, with limited short term expectations. Which he did not exceed (again) during his relatively short stay.
That will NOT be the case at UNH. Nor should it be. Plus, it's his alma mater. A simple sense of pride should be motivation enough, and he's been here when things were great.
Maybe it's the absolute absence of anything - and I mean zip, zero, nada - that would indicate a sense of urgency, that concerns me. We've become conditioned to that over the last decade of slip sliding away from Coach Souza's predecessor, and with BS35+6 holding to form and just hoping his innovative, genius three year transition plan comes to fruition, many of us are starving for a sign - any sign - of intent, of positive energy, of urgency to turn this mess around. Sitting on our hands, waiting for the incoming assistant to enjoy his last parade at his soon-to-be-former employer, should not be surprising. But it is maddening, and it's GD frustrating too. JMHO.
Most grand slams by a team in the month of April, I believe.
God I do miss my 'Spos ... BTW - the debate over the presumed hiring of Mark White has made for a good read. Good points, both ways, but right now I'm leaning in Dan's direction. The laissez faire attitude - again, IF this is accurate, and my limited sources suggest it probably is - still smacks of a basic misread of UNH's current station in the D-1 hockey world (i.e. low and still falling), and the overall institutional complacency that's landed them here in the first place.
I'm not sure Coach Souza understands the true scope of the challenge that he's taken on here. Let's put it this way ... at his last two jobs (Brown and UConn) he had built-in excuses for not succeeding:
* At Brown, both he and White were relative newbie assistants at a program with virtually no history ... so even if you tread water, that might not be considered a "fail";
* At UConn, Souza was an assistant in a program that was a newcomer to D-1, with limited short term expectations. Which he did not exceed (again) during his relatively short stay.
That will NOT be the case at UNH. Nor should it be. Plus, it's his alma mater. A simple sense of pride should be motivation enough, and he's been here when things were great.
Maybe it's the absolute absence of anything - and I mean zip, zero, nada - that would indicate a sense of urgency, that concerns me. We've become conditioned to that over the last decade of slip sliding away from Coach Souza's predecessor, and with BS35+6 holding to form and just hoping his innovative, genius three year transition plan comes to fruition, many of us are starving for a sign - any sign - of intent, of positive energy, of urgency to turn this mess around. Sitting on our hands, waiting for the incoming assistant to enjoy his last parade at his soon-to-be-former employer, should not be surprising. But it is maddening, and it's GD frustrating too. JMHO.
NCAA watcher
Registered User
Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?
Unfortunately, it's not a disease that one overcomes or cures, so much of the life is learning to manage the issues. My brother in law had it, managed it well into his early 50s so that we assumed everything was under control . But one of the side products is a very heightened risk for colon and bowel cancers. The key is to know those risks and be super vigilant with regular checkups and colonoscopies.
Unfortunately, it's not a disease that one overcomes or cures, so much of the life is learning to manage the issues. My brother in law had it, managed it well into his early 50s so that we assumed everything was under control . But one of the side products is a very heightened risk for colon and bowel cancers. The key is to know those risks and be super vigilant with regular checkups and colonoscopies.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?
Random observations ('cuz that's what we do in the offseason on here, isn't it?):
Best of luck to Rich Boyd in his ongoing battle with Crohn's disease.
Glad to see Chanter won't have to rely on a future career in hockey. "Foxhole Productions" anyone?
Souza's desk is looking a little too bare for my liking, for a guy facing a humongous challenge in his new job.
Random observations ('cuz that's what we do in the offseason on here, isn't it?):
Best of luck to Rich Boyd in his ongoing battle with Crohn's disease.
Glad to see Chanter won't have to rely on a future career in hockey. "Foxhole Productions" anyone?
Souza's desk is looking a little too bare for my liking, for a guy facing a humongous challenge in his new job.
Where is Ryan Donato?
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