TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

[Gurtholfin]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

Does one deserve to be basically stripped of a future career due to ONE incident 30+ years ago? And will this be SOP for the future?

And remember, IF there are more allegations, yes, that changes the discussion drastically.

No... it doesn't.

And I never said he should be stripped of his career.

You and DX minimized what he (allegedly) did because of various rationalizations.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

No... it doesn't.

And I never said he should be stripped of his career.

You and DX minimized what he (allegedly) did because of various rationalizations.

No, I didn’t. You can keep repeating that if it makes you feel better.

It’s odd you accuse us of doing the same thing you’re doing right now.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

I have nothing else to say on Spacey, until further notice.

Brent is right, there were B-list Hollywood figures with a rep who should've had the whistle blown on them MUCH sooner.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

No, I didn’t. You can keep repeating that if it makes you feel better.

It’s odd you accuse us of doing the same thing you’re doing right now.

I quoted your words and asked for a clarification.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

I quoted your words and asked for a clarification.

I gave you one, actually I think two.

Edit: Well, I gave it in reply to Maize. And clarified it in other posts.

Edit 2: actually, the post at 10:21 as well.

 

[The Rube]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

I have nothing else to say on Spacey, until further notice.

Brent is right, there were B-list Hollywood figures with a rep who should've had the whistle blown on them MUCH sooner.

I *think* Seagal had a couple cases settled, or he was charged and nothing came of it, but don't remember for sure.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

I gave you one, actually I think two.

Edit: Well, I gave it in reply to Maize. And clarified it in other posts.

Edit 2: actually, the post at 10:21 as well.

You even brought Sandusky into it hinting that if it had only been a one time thing (raping a boy in a shower) that it might have been forgivable as a one time horrific decision.

If that's not what you meant, you need to choose your words better.

The first time.... not in some backtrack.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

You even brought Sandusky into it hinting that if it had only been a one time thing (raping a boy in a shower) that it might have been forgivable as a one time horrific decision.

If that's not what you meant, you need to choose your words better.

The first time.... not in some backtrack.

First, on the Sandusky issue, I clearly said it was regarding Paterno. You misread it. It was fairly clear I wasn’t excusing Sandusky. Before it was known that Paterno knew and covered it up, I wasn’t calling for his job. It wasn’t even clear he knew. Should he have been fired even if he didn’t know? Maybe. But that’s no what we’re talking about.

On your second point, I’ll accept that criticism. I should choose my words better. We all should.

On your third point: a big fat I’m sorry I didn’t have a 40-page, peer-reviewed thesis with fully cited sources. I forgot we were on USCHO.

Edit: and what in your infinite wisdom should be his punishment? Extralegally speaking of course. Which is what I’ve been talking about from the beginning.

 

[Handyman]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

I mean, to sum up...

It's okay to attempt a sexual assault on a minor as long as it was only once and was many years ago.


Did I read that right?

Literally no one said that.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

I didn't bring up the drunk driver thing!

Again, NO one is saying the Rapp thing is "okay."

Does one deserve to be basically stripped of a future career due to ONE incident 30+ years ago? And will this be SOP for the future?

What if the allegations (and potential subsequent proof) came out the next day instead of 30+ years ago? Because in essence Spacey has gotten one hell of a free ride (and subsequent career) by this not having come out previously. Now that's it 30+ we just shrug and say, "Well what's done is done."?

You even brought Sandusky into it hinting that if it had only been a one time thing (raping a boy in a shower) that it might have been forgivable as a one time horrific decision.

If that's not what you meant, you need to choose your words better.

The first time.... not in some backtrack.

I didn't get that from his post at all.

 

[joecct]

That's exactly what dx is arguing. What a joke.

30+ years ago and drunk? Oh, that's OK. That's like saying he drove drunk and hit/seriously injured someone, and he's got no problem with it. It was just once.

Kennedy rules?

Brent - If a coach, priest or a teacher can't get a free pass, neither can an actor. There must be one standard.

We need to be sure the allegation(s) are true. Witchhunts are famous for collecting the innocent as well as the guilty.

What IS surprising is that nobody has sued for $$$$$.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

Literally no one said that.

Seriously? It was said and with a chance to walk it back, was said again and again.

I’m talking about ruining someone’s career over a single incident. If it isn’t a onetime horrible mistake, then obviously that changes things.

No.

1. Is the allegation true? Most likely
2. Should this single allegation end Spacey's career? No.
3. Will this "single allegation/game over" pattern continue for anyone accused of such incidents (assuming it was a single incident, and not a pattern)? I have no idea.

Now, was it a one time thing and it never happened again? Say the drunk driver in your situation learned from his mistake and never drove drunk again? Should be be punished for the rest of his life? That's what were asking here.....

So I’m wondering. Is this all a big overreaction to something that happened 31 years ago and (hopefully) isn’t part of a pattern, wasn’t part of an aggressive coverup, and Spacey shows legitimate remorse?

If it comes out that this was part of a pattern and not an isolated incident where Spacey made an extremely poor decision, then obviously that changes things.

But let’s say this was a single horrible decision. Do we cast him out because of it? Because it seems like this is what we do now. I’ve never done anything as bad as this, but I’m sure we’ve all done some pretty stupid and maybe horrible things in our lives. I’m sure we wouldn’t want to be judged by our actions 30 years prior.

I have zero reason to doubt Rapp. Spacey didn’t even outright deny it. He said he doesn’t remember it and I think it was Rapp who said Spacey was extremely intoxicated. Probably a good chance cocaine was involved given it was the 80s.

So I’m not talking about whether this was true. I’m asking assume that it is true but a one time thing.

I mean, if this is a one-time thing, it's not like we're having a Weinstein conversation here. Spacey may not remember it at all.

And yes, Rapp said Spacey was acting drunk.

For something he did over 30 years ago? Really?

In my world, no one gets a mulligan on attempted sexual assault. Especially of a child.

You don't get to dabble at or try out being a predator to see if it's for you. You're either a pedo or you're not.

And being drunk or high is no excuse.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

I misinterpreted the Sandusky/Paterno tie-in. My bad.


Separating the alleged act from Spacey...

On the face of it, this looks like a knee-jerk overreaction. First thing I said to my wife when we heard about it. I honestly think it's being used as a convenient reason to cancel a show that should have ended at least a season ago - I say that as a pretty big fan of both HoC and Spacey.

In a vacuum, no, you don't ruin someone's career over one unsubstantiated allegation. It should be allowed to play out.

You have to wonder if people in the know are afraid of other dirt surfacing though. That... and as mentioned earlier, Spacey doesn't come out and say - "That's not even remotely possible." "I'm not attracted to pubescent boys and I'm not a sexual predator."

Instead, he claims possible intoxication and comes out as gay.


I've been blackout drunk a few times way back in the day. When I was in that state, in no way could I have lifted someone and carried them like a bride nor would I have been able to assault someone.

If true, Spacey was not so messed up that he didn't know what he was doing.

It's the classic excuse making in this situation.

"You're not going to ruin this boy's life over one bad decision, are you?" "He was drunk and didn't know what he was doing."

 

[unofan]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

In Europe, that is a common sentence, IIRC.

Yeah, but Europe also protects convicted statutory rapist Roman Polanski, so they have their own moral failings.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

What if the allegations (and potential subsequent proof) came out the next day instead of 30+ years ago? Because in essence Spacey has gotten one hell of a free ride (and subsequent career) by this not having come out previously. Now that's it 30+ we just shrug and say, "Well what's done is done."?.

Now that is an interesting point. We might not know the name Kevin Spacey. Then again, Woody Allen is still around.

 

[unofan]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

Kennedy rules?

Brent - If a coach, priest or a teacher can't get a free pass, neither can an actor. There must be one standard.

We need to be sure the allegation(s) are true. Witchhunts are famous for collecting the innocent as well as the guilty.

What IS surprising is that nobody has sued for $$$$$.

Of course, coaches, teachers, and priests inherently have an authoritarian role over kids that actors, athletes, your average joe on the street do not. There's definitely a legitimate reason for treating them harsher.

 

[Handyman]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

Seriously? It was said and with a chance to walk it back, was said again and again.


















In my world, no one gets a mulligan on attempted sexual assault. Especially of a child.

You don't get to dabble at or try out being a predator to see if it's for you. You're either a pedo or you're not.

And being drunk or high is no excuse.

No what they were saying was should it be different if it was a one time thing and not part of a pattern. Use some flipping reading comprehension. Not one of them excused it. Christ my girlfriend said the same thing and she is about as hardcore as it gets on this issue.

And while alcohol and drugs never excuse bad behavior...they definitely can trigger it. We all know people that would never do anything violent but if they have a shot of Jack would beat up a 2 year old for looking at them funny. Not an excuse, but a factor.

And just so you dont get confused I am not in any way defending anything Spacey might have done. The problem with the timing is we will never really know what happened which sucks the most for Rapp.

 

[Handyman]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

Now that is an interesting point. We might not know the name Kevin Spacey. Then again, Woody Allen is still around.

Most people ignore Woody Allen about this stuff. (especially the later allegations) Annie Hall is just so great no way he diddled his daughter...

 

[The Rube]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

Kennedy rules?

Brent - If a coach, priest or a teacher can't get a free pass, neither can an actor. There must be one standard.

We need to be sure the allegation(s) are true. Witchhunts are famous for collecting the innocent as well as the guilty.

What IS surprising is that nobody has sued for $$$$$.

That's the other part. Spacey didn't exactly deny nor admit it happened. Add to that, how many years ago it was, and who knows? I'm still guessing it happened, but that's just it: a guess.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: TV: There She Is, The Old Radiation King

No what they were saying was should it be different if it was a one time thing and not part of a pattern. .

I understood that fully.

That line of reasoning is precisely what I have an issue with.


It matters not if it was a "one time thing" or 30 years ago.


You don't get to take back assault and the victim has to live with the "one time thing" for the rest of their life.