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TV: The Golden Era Reborn

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Re: TV: The Golden Era Reborn

Has anyone else been watching the Ken Burns documentary on the Vietnam War? It's just really good.

I haven't, but it's only because I didn't realize it was on. I need to set my DVR and catch up. Everything that man does is golden.
 
Re: TV: The Golden Era Reborn

I haven't, but it's only because I didn't realize it was on. I need to set my DVR and catch up. Everything that man does is golden.

The final episodes of Baseball and New York were crap. But yes, most of the time he's terrific.
 
Re: TV: The Golden Era Reborn

The final episodes of Baseball and New York were crap. But yes, most of the time he's terrific.

The final inning of Baseball was perfectly fine. The pieces about steroids and Domincan players were particularly good.

Vietnam is also good thus far.
 
Re: TV: The Golden Era Reborn

Rally looking forward to seeing this. Wondering also if it corroborates any of the points Rob't McNamara raised in his two books about the war, which I expected to be pure apologist bullshat but which were pretty interesting.
 
Re: TV: The Golden Era Reborn

"America's involvement in Vietnam began in secrecy. It ended 30 years later in failure. Witnessed by the entire world."

begins a brutal and sobering opening to The Vietnam War. The first nine minutes were a warning to the viewer about what was to come. As someone far too young to even have a father who fought in the war, this is going to an experience.
 
"America's involvement in Vietnam began in secrecy. It ended 30 years later in failure. Witnessed by the entire world."

begins a brutal and sobering opening to The Vietnam War. The first nine minutes were a warning to the viewer about what was to come. As someone far too young to even have a father who fought in the war, this is going to an experience.

A guy had a great line in tonight's episode. "It's very hard to dispel ignorance if you retain arrogance."
 
Re: TV: The Golden Era Reborn

"America's involvement in Vietnam began in secrecy. It ended 30 years later in failure. Witnessed by the entire world."

begins a brutal and sobering opening to The Vietnam War. The first nine minutes were a warning to the viewer about what was to come. As someone far too young to even have a father who fought in the war, this is going to an experience.

IMO, it was one of the first, if NOT the first time US forces faced very odd strategies. Saw a special on the History Channel a couple years ago about "The Art Of War" by Sun Tzu, and the Vietnam War was one of the wars they highlighted. Cited some specific examples where the US was simply out-smarted. We were used to just facing off and let's rumble, bruh (in general). Whoops.
 
Re: TV: The Golden Era Reborn

So this happened today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIY6zFL95hE&t=0s

Defenders was basically a pile of crap, but I'm dumb enough to hold out hope. I'm hoping that Punisher can live out on it's own tangent. Frank Castle, even in mainline Marvel comics, is a character who does his own thing and really only shows up elsewhere on few occasions. I'm hoping NETFLIX can do that here. I really like the conspiracy angle they're playing. Take Frank's story out of NYC/Hell's Kitchen and let him do his own thing.
 
Re: TV: The Golden Era Reborn

So this happened today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIY6zFL95hE&t=0s

Defenders was basically a pile of crap, but I'm dumb enough to hold out hope. I'm hoping that Punisher can live out on it's own tangent. Frank Castle, even in mainline Marvel comics, is a character who does his own thing and really only shows up elsewhere on few occasions. I'm hoping NETFLIX can do that here. I really like the conspiracy angle they're playing. Take Frank's story out of NYC/Hell's Kitchen and let him do his own thing.

The Defenders, as in the Netflix series? I thought it was good enough to watch the whole way through. Nothing outstanding, but worth my while. I won't watch any of the indie series involving them except Jessica (although thought about Luke Cage). Note: had watched Jessica S1 before The Defenders.
 
"America's involvement in Vietnam began in secrecy. It ended 30 years later in failure. Witnessed by the entire world."

begins a brutal and sobering opening to The Vietnam War. The first nine minutes were a warning to the viewer about what was to come. As someone far too young to even have a father who fought in the war, this is going to an experience.
And yet 3 episodes in there's already talk about how "Anti-American" it is. :rolleyes:
 
Re: TV: The Golden Era Reborn

IMO, it was one of the first, if NOT the first time US forces faced very odd strategies. Saw a special on the History Channel a couple years ago about "The Art Of War" by Sun Tzu, and the Vietnam War was one of the wars they highlighted. Cited some specific examples where the US was simply out-smarted. We were used to just facing off and let's rumble, bruh (in general). Whoops.

As one soldier pointed out in one of the episodes, the military always starts out fighting a war in the exact same way they fought the last war. They usually discover that warfare has changed, and the question becomes how quickly can your army adapt.

A North Vietnamese soldier explained the plans of their commanders quite nicely. He said their commanders told them "we have to fight them by grabbing their belt buckles. We grab their belt buckles, we win. We don't grab their belt buckles, we will be killed by their mortar fire and their planes."

Burns has done a really nice job thus far laying out the deadly cocktail that was Vietnam. A fear of encroaching Communism without asking the question, "Who farking cares if the communists take over Vietnam? It's Vietnam for crying out loud." The American Exceptionalism that expanded into arrogance through the years following WWII. An unconventional battlefield that didn't permit you to measure wins and losses by ground gained or cities captured, but required creation of a new measuring tool (body count) that only encouraged lying to save face, and once you start lying about that, where does the lying stop?

It will be interesting to see if this documentary changes American opinion about its Vietnam vets. Getting a little late now, but I suppose better late than never.
 
Re: TV: The Golden Era Reborn

It was a good idea that was botched by Washington.

Vietnam was a micro managed war. IIRC, LBJ was looking at photos daily deciding where to bomb. Everything was reduced to numbers. The big thing was "body count". But the VC and NVA were dragging off their dead, so we were using math to decide how many commies died.

Hire competent people, give them a job to do, and get the hell out of the way.

And don't forget the corruption that was rampant in South Vietnam.
 
Re: TV: The Golden Era Reborn

Everything was reduced to numbers. The big thing was "body count".

I thought it was interesting how McNamara was a former executive from Ford and a systems analyst whiz, and they brought him in to run the Defense Department that way. Now don't get me wrong, making sure things in the military and done logically and efficiently can be a very good thing, especially when compared to the monarch and a bunch of nobles shooting from the hip in days or yore, but as we saw from Vietnam trying to reduce everything to statistics that can be analyzed is going too far in the other direction. As one of the talking heads pointed out, among all of their numbers they missed what impact they were having on the people of Vietnam.

Also, France, if you want your empire, don't do such a **** job of holding on to it in the first place.
 
Re: TV: The Golden Era Reborn

As one soldier pointed out in one of the episodes, the military always starts out fighting a war in the exact same way they fought the last war. They usually discover that warfare has changed, and the question becomes how quickly can your army adapt.

A North Vietnamese soldier explained the plans of their commanders quite nicely. He said their commanders told them "we have to fight them by grabbing their belt buckles. We grab their belt buckles, we win. We don't grab their belt buckles, we will be killed by their mortar fire and their planes."

Burns has done a really nice job thus far laying out the deadly cocktail that was Vietnam. A fear of encroaching Communism without asking the question, "Who farking cares if the communists take over Vietnam? It's Vietnam for crying out loud." The American Exceptionalism that expanded into arrogance through the years following WWII. An unconventional battlefield that didn't permit you to measure wins and losses by ground gained or cities captured, but required creation of a new measuring tool (body count) that only encouraged lying to save face, and once you start lying about that, where does the lying stop?

It will be interesting to see if this documentary changes American opinion about its Vietnam vets. Getting a little late now, but I suppose better late than never.

I just heard Burns interviewed about the series...this was a passion project and something that hit very close to home for him. And the best part was the fluidity, they would interview someone who would then interview others. Sometimes the interpreters gave them info. Then they would interview someone from one side of a battle, then vice versa and let each side know what the other side was thinking. Very cool stuff.
 
It was a good idea that was botched by Washington.

Vietnam was a micro managed war. IIRC, LBJ was looking at photos daily deciding where to bomb. Everything was reduced to numbers. The big thing was "body count". But the VC and NVA were dragging off their dead, so we were using math to decide how many commies died.

Hire competent people, give them a job to do, and get the hell out of the way.

And don't forget the corruption that was rampant in South Vietnam.

It was a terrible idea.
 
Re: TV: The Golden Era Reborn

Well joe does think Climate Change is overblown because he once read an article in the Telegraph so take his thoughts with a grain...

Vietnam was a terrible idea from the word jump.
 
Re: TV: The Golden Era Reborn

Vietnam was even dumber and less justified than the Second Gulf War.

If we're very lucky, ISIS will be defeated and Iraqis will also transition to a one-party "market-socialist" oil state and welcome American tourists with open arms in about 40 years.
 
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