What's new
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

And that's kind of my point- the righties keep pointing out that Obama has been the worst ever many times, and R's are so much better. Apparently forgetting that Bush got smacked down a few times, too.

Oh, like that one where he didn't need a FISA court order to spy on American citizens? That one?

But Obama was so much worse, trying to reduce air pollution, enforce overtime pay laws and such. taking away people's rights. Such dreadful conduct.
 
...if we suddenly find out Trump committed a heinous crime, treason, or gives the Nazi salute at his next rally.
Oh please. His supporters would see those as: "Cutting fat from the ogliarchies that horde excess," "telling it like it is and getting the job done no matter what," or "being a uniter by getting everyone rallied together."


History just loves irony, doesn't it?
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

OK, joke's over. Time to pull me out of the sensory deprivation tank and pop William Hurt back in.
 
Last edited:
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

My concern about the Obama acts that I delineated is not so much the immediate impact on our "constitutional rights" but a slow erosion of some of the protections our form of government has had in place to prevent rule by dictatorship. Every president would love the authority to just declare what the law is. To the extent that any president chips away at that limitation, it is ultimately a bad thing.

But I'm sure you were fine with Bush's expansion of domestic spying authority all in the name of national security, right?
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

Your original question/premise was that "many" (unnamed) complain that Obama has committed numerous unconstitutional acts, so you want to know what "rights" have been taken away.

First, I have no idea precisely what the "many" have claimed. However, in a previous thread (in which I described Obama as average or above average, as I recall) I pointed out my two main concerns about the Obama presidency.

First, we had a dumpster fire of a system for paying for healthcare in this country before he took office. I personally believe all the ACA did was pour gas on that fire, as opposed to solving any real problems for any appreciable length of time (I don't believe temporarily adding people to the list of insureds, only to see them be forced off, with others, in the next couple of years because of outrageous premium prices is really an improvement.)

Second, I think Obama's practice of "if Congress won't act, I will" sets a dangerous precedent and is arguably unconstitutional. Another example beyond the aforementioned immigration action includes some appointments of judges under the NLRA which were later set aside as being unlawful. There were also some portions of the ACA that were legislated that certain things had to be done by certain times, and when it became politically expedient to shift those deadlines, he did so unilaterally without Congress, who really has to do the legislating.

His acts weren't so brazen as taking peoples guns away, declaring that certain segments of society no longer have the right to marry, or that type of thing. But I don't know that anyone has actually accused him of doing those things, although some may have accused him of wanting to do certain acts.

My concern about the Obama acts that I delineated is not so much the immediate impact on our "constitutional rights" but a slow erosion of some of the protections our form of government has had in place to prevent rule by dictatorship. Every president would love the authority to just declare what the law is. To the extent that any president chips away at that limitation, it is ultimately a bad thing.

Except that the ACA only had a bit struck down and other parts were ruled as constitutional by the SCOTUS. Most of what you wrote was just partisan talking points instead of actual unconstitutional acts.
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

Can't we all just hate all politicians together? Equal hate for all.
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

Your original question/premise was that "many" (unnamed) complain that Obama has committed numerous unconstitutional acts, so you want to know what "rights" have been taken away.

First, I have no idea precisely what the "many" have claimed. However, in a previous thread (in which I described Obama as average or above average, as I recall) I pointed out my two main concerns about the Obama presidency.

First, we had a dumpster fire of a system for paying for healthcare in this country before he took office. I personally believe all the ACA did was pour gas on that fire, as opposed to solving any real problems for any appreciable length of time (I don't believe temporarily adding people to the list of insureds, only to see them be forced off, with others, in the next couple of years because of outrageous premium prices is really an improvement.)

This remains to be seen what really happens. Especially how Trump deals with it. Could have it been better if nothing happened? Possible, but we would also be in a situation where many people would not have any healthcare nor a realistic path to even get it.

One thing you do have to admit- instead of fixing the flaws in the system, all that's been tried is to just get rid of it, lock, stock, and barrel. So it's hard to even come up with "what could happen if improved" realistically.

Second, I think Obama's practice of "if Congress won't act, I will" sets a dangerous precedent and is arguably unconstitutional. Another example beyond the aforementioned immigration action includes some appointments of judges under the NLRA which were later set aside as being unlawful. There were also some portions of the ACA that were legislated that certain things had to be done by certain times, and when it became politically expedient to shift those deadlines, he did so unilaterally without Congress, who really has to do the legislating.

His acts weren't so brazen as taking peoples guns away, declaring that certain segments of society no longer have the right to marry, or that type of thing. But I don't know that anyone has actually accused him of doing those things, although some may have accused him of wanting to do certain acts.

My concern about the Obama acts that I delineated is not so much the immediate impact on our "constitutional rights" but a slow erosion of some of the protections our form of government has had in place to prevent rule by dictatorship. Every president would love the authority to just declare what the law is. To the extent that any president chips away at that limitation, it is ultimately a bad thing.

Arguably, sure. But as we've discussed in the past, he's done nothing unique in that respect, too. Again, Obama ended up being just like every other President before him. He tried something that he thought was legal- some of it has gone through, others- the court stopped it- just as the system is supposed to do. He can only act in areas that the Executive Branch can interpret an existing law- that's it.

Realistically, are either of those concerns any different than any other previous President? And lets not forget that a lot of the expansion of Presidential power happened because of Dick Cheney, not Obama. Like you point out, Presidents grab power they are given.
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

Prior to the start of his first term, I give him a 25% chance of running for re-election.

I had a similar prediction, but for very different reasons:

Trump is very efficient, and accomplishes all he sets out to do in his first term. Trump in 2020: "my work here is done."

Pence 2020
Ivanka 2024, our first woman President.


(not at all what I am advocating, merely what I expect).
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

Won't liberals have overthrown the government by then? Since they don't want to move enmass to swing states.
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

Many have complained that the Obama two terms did a lot of un-constitutional stuff.

Can anyone be very specific about that? Especially things that were unique and not just carried over from the Bush years.

What rights have people lost over the last 8 years?

Not my position necessarily, you asked for an explanation of others' thinking: Most of the unconstitutional stuff has been "separation of powers" issues, overstepping the limits on the Executive by extra-legal circumvention of the Legislative. IIRC, there have already been four rulings by Judicial that overturned Executive actions as unconstitutional (there was a non-recess "recess" appointment to NLRB that was vacated, an Executive order on immigration or naturalization that was overturned, and two others that I recall happening whose details escape me right now).
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

So to re-ask my question from the other thread...

Many have complained that the Obama two terms did a lot of un-constitutional stuff.

Can anyone be very specific about that? Especially things that were unique and not just carried over from the Bush years.

What rights have people lost over the last 8 years?

How about the NDAA? I'm fairly certain indefinite detention is a violation of the 6th amendment.
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

I had a similar prediction, but for very different reasons:

Trump is very efficient, and accomplishes all he sets out to do in his first term. Trump in 2020: "my work here is done."

Pence 2020
Ivanka 2024, our first woman President.


(not at all what I am advocating, merely what I expect).

Efficient? ayfkm? Running the country into bankruptcy court, perhaps, if that were possible.
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

From Elizabeth Warren's Facebook.

Donald Trump’s transition team is talking openly about implementing the sweeping national database of American Muslims he promised during his campaign. Last night, one of Trump’s SuperPAC allies said it would probably be fine because our government placed Japanese-Americans in internment camps during World War II.

Registering and tracking Americans based on race, national origin, or religious beliefs is not fine. It’s idiotic. It’s disgusting. It’s unconstitutional. And it’s a recruiting bonanza for ISIS.

In May, the Smithsonian released this video of Muslim-American children reading letters from Japanese-American children who were forced to grow up in those camps. Listen to the voices of these children. We must do everything we can to make sure this kind of moral and national security disaster never happens again.

At this time I'd like to remind Elizabeth and everyone here that this is what American voted for. She can whine all she wants but it won't do any good.
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

At this time I'd like to remind Elizabeth and everyone here that this is what American voted for. She can whine all she wants but it won't do any good.

The election's ancient history. The people voted against Hillary. That job is complete, she is politically dead and gone. It's important for people to come forward and say "I didn't vote for this Himmler sh-t."

What percentage of Americans are really going to approve of their government putting a religious test on civil liberties? Maybe the same 29% impotent knucks who are always looking for an excuse to hurt somebody to make themselves feel a little less small. F-ck them. 71% of the country can stop them.
 
Last edited:
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

The election's ancient history. The people voted against Hillary. That job is complete, she is politically dead and gone. It's important for people to come forward and say "I didn't vote for this Himmler sh-t."
That's not the way I read it. Obama has placated. The media has placated. The Congress has placated. The people have placated.

Time to start reaping what's been sewn.
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

That's not the way I read it. Obama has placated. The media has placated. The Congress has placated. The people have placated.

Time to start reaping what's been sewn.

Now that Trump has been elected, Scooby is whole again.
 
Re: Trump First Term I: I for One Welcome Our New Trumpy Overlord

As for immigration, here's a stat that will surprise most people because it hasn't been publicized that much. And as Casey Stengel would say, you can look it up. The Obama administration actually deported more aliens than the previous three administrations put together. In some ways, he was more Trump like towards illegal immigrants than the two Bush's
Let's make sure we are comparing apples to apples here. IIRC, the Obama administration's definition of "deportation" included those turned back within a certain distance from the border, even if still in Mexico. Is/was that the same definition applied to the Bush's? Seems like a pretty "liberal" definition of the term.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top