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Trickle down?

Re: Trickle down?

Back to the beginning. In my opinion the NHL has a huge and ongoing influence over DI hockey. In fact the vast majority of college ice surfaces are 85'X200', the same dimensions required by the NHL. In fact, fans recite the number of former players [including early departures] from their favorite college team now in the NHL as proof of their program's success, and coaches use this statistic as a recruiting tool. In my opinion the NHL 85'X200' ice surface enables a push, clutch and grapple style of play. In fact the current NHL refereeing style permits six-man scrums to continue for some time after the puck is out of sight.
I am concerned that college hockey referees will increasingly emulate their NHL equivalents in permitting frequent and protracted six-man scrums along the boards, replete with pushing, clutching, and grappling. I have seen more than enough clutch-and-grapple college hockey, whether or not it conforms to the NHL style of play.
 
Re: Trickle down?

Osorojo said:
Olympic/international sized ice surfaces promote skill, speed, agility and strategy in hockey, to the benefit of the game. I haven't checked, but I fear all the new college rinks under construction will feature NHL-sized rinks. This will speed the departure of early departues but will ultimately degrade the appeal of both "amateur" and professional hockey in the U.S..
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Osorojo said:
Nah. The smaller ice surface quickly accustoms top scholarship recruits to NHL-style shove-and-grapple hockey, meaning they can depart at or before the end of their freshman year [rather than their sophomore year] and a new class of one-and-done wonders can be recruited, trained, and depart the next year. That's clearly how trickle-down NHL rules, NHL enforcement, and NHL venue size will speed individual early departures and the overall early departure rate from college hockey. Don't play dumb unless you have no other option.
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You clearly suggested that those of us who might disagree with those very clear statements are dumb or playing dumb. I, for one, freely admit to being dumb on many topics, but I usually earn the distinction (and I may have here). Do you have any facts to support your claim that small sheets attract/produce more one-and-doners? If you do, that's great, but for UND, Minnesota, and Wisconsin, at least, the opposite seems to be true, and those programs are among the biggest college NHL feeders.
 
Re: Trickle down?

burd: My opinion is that playing on NHL sized ice encourages NHL style hockey, which in my opinion includes way too much shoving and grappling. It is a fact that shoving and grappling is permitted to a much greater extent by NHL officials than by NCAA officials. I fear this style of officiating will spread to college hockey.
In fact, the great majority of college ice surfaces either conform to NHL dimensions or vary by no more than two feet in width. Consequently, even those few colleges with significantly larger ice surfaces play about half their regular games on NHL sized ice. I conclude, perhaps incorrectly, that players accustomed to playing on NHL sized ice and accustomed to the styles of play encouraged by these dimensions are relatively more attractive to NHL programs. My opinion is that being accustomed to playing on NHL sized ice is one cause making college players initially attractive to the pros, but certainly it's not a necessary condition for pro interest in a player. On the flip side, I think if the NHL went to 100'X200' rinks that the number of European players in the NHL would far surpass the considerable number of Europeans currently on NHL rosters. Would you agree?
 
Re: Trickle down?

How far back are we going when talking about one-and-doners? Stu Bickel is the poster child for forgettable one-and-doners, he played for the Gophers.
 
Re: Trickle down?

SCSU Euro said:
How far back are we going when talking about one-and-doners? Stu Bickel is the poster child for forgettable one-and-doners, he played for the Gophers.
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I was thinking of players that went from college to the NHL (at least within a year or so). Bickel played in the minors for 3 seasons before getting his chance at the NHL. That being said, he was definitely a 1 and done player...that played on Olympic size ice.
 
Re: Trickle down?

The big sheet at Lake Whitt (UNH) has not translated to any one-and-doners, so Oso must be right. However, Jamie Van Riemsdyk was a two-and-doner, so Oso must be wrong. ;)
 
Re: Trickle down?

Slap Shot said:
Proving once again you're a UND fan first and a human being second. ;)



btw - can someone tell me why osorojo even bothers posting at a site dedicated to college hockey?
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I'm all about the hating... but how was this not a topic about college hockey? :)
 
Re: Trickle down?

stuckinwi said:
I'm all about the hating... but how was this not a topic about college hockey? :)
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I don't think he has any interest in advancing the sport at the collegiate level, but perhaps that observation is less obvious than I thought. ;)
 
Re: Trickle down?

Osorojo said:
burd: My opinion is that playing on NHL sized ice encourages NHL style hockey, which in my opinion includes way too much shoving and grappling. It is a fact that shoving and grappling is permitted to a much greater extent by NHL officials than by NCAA officials. I fear this style of officiating will spread to college hockey.
In fact, the great majority of college ice surfaces either conform to NHL dimensions or vary by no more than two feet in width. Consequently, even those few colleges with significantly larger ice surfaces play about half their regular games on NHL sized ice. I conclude, perhaps incorrectly, that players accustomed to playing on NHL sized ice and accustomed to the styles of play encouraged by these dimensions are relatively more attractive to NHL programs. My opinion is that being accustomed to playing on NHL sized ice is one cause making college players initially attractive to the pros, but certainly it's not a necessary condition for pro interest in a player. On the flip side, I think if the NHL went to 100'X200' rinks that the number of European players in the NHL would far surpass the considerable number of Europeans currently on NHL rosters. Would you agree?
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You may be right in some or much of what you are saying Oso, but I'll tell you how I'm a little lost in the discussion. For quite a few years college hockey fans, at least in the WCHA, complained that college officials allow too much obstruction--less so than the NHL, which was actually ahead of the game in calling hooking, holding, and slashing, and interference penalties. The theory was, I think, that the Europeans, Swedes, and Soviets brought a more passing/finesse style game to the NHL and eventually created an appetite for a freer flowing game. For example, many fans thought Zach Parise and players like him were more suited for the NHL game at that time because they did not endure as much clutching and grabbing there as they did in the WCHA and may have been disposed to leave earlier in order to take advantage of the way the game was being called in the NHL. That may or may not be true, but if anything, the clutching and grabbing is called more in the college game now than it was 8 years ago, and many attribute that to the changes that were made at the NHL level first.

Where ice size factors in I'm not sure, but it seems too simplistic to say smaller sheets in the NHL are causing a more obstructive game at the college level. Do I have statistice to support what I'm saying--no, but the discussion has been going on for quite a few years.
 
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Re: Trickle down?

Slap Shot said:
Proving once again you're a UND fan first and a human being second. ;)



btw - can someone tell me why osorojo even bothers posting at a site dedicated to college hockey?
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There are times when I think that its probably quite an accomplishment that he found a hockey website to spout off on, and he's not ranting about sports inequity and major juniors on a quilting message board.
 
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