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The WJC Thread. USA! USA! USA!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gurtholfin
  • Start date Start date
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Gurtholfin said:
You always bring up Kaner. How do you know that he's not better for having been in the NTDP?

Did he tell you this? Did you secretly have a 2nd Kaner clone that you put through a more typical program who turned out exactly the same? Or is it just your opinion that you cannot prove or even back up with decent bs?

Maybe, the super-skilled, but undersized Kaner was able to learn how to function in a world of guys who are larger than him while in the NTDP and playing against college and junior players that are older, stronger and bigger than him.

I can picture Kane as a Pee Wee player flying all over the ice and scoring lots of points, but not playing an even remotely complete two-way game (not that he really does that now). Maybe the NTDP helped him to get better at this? Maybe?

Point is, you're talking out your butthole and I have no idea why I'm even engaging you.
Click to expand...



dont than.

all of the players who went thru ndtp would have in all sense and purpose been just as good a player they are today by playing in the uSHL

If Kane had played for Blais(last years WJC winning coach) he would have been the exact same player. I would assume he would have been capable of teaching him just as much
What we wouldnt have is the obsession of ndtp to force only the national kids onto the WJC rosters and camps.

If these kids had played for Carlson at Cedar Rapids or Blaise or Fargo or Waterloo, they would have been just as good, we woldnt have so much political crap on camp selection and kane would still have a ring.


and most importantly, the 6-13 year olds wopuldnt have had to pony up 4 mllion bucks and it could have been used for more national development

have you ever looked at the annual budget for admin and staff for ndtp?
the chances of it going away are zero, and for all the wrong reasons
 
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

bigblue_dl said:
To actually get some decent conversation going on in here, instead of everyone being dumbfounded by hokydope's stupidity:

Here are the 2 pools for this years tourney, and the game schedule. Notice the Canada-Russia-Sweden trifecta in the same group.

Group A:
USA
Finland
Switzerland
Slovakia
Germany

Group B:
Canada
Sweden
Russia
Czech Republic
Norway

Sunday, December 26th: (I'm guessing the times are eastern time)
12:30 - Germany v. Switzerland
4:00 - Russia v. Canada
4:00 - Norway v. Sweden
8:00 - Finland v. USA

Monday, December 27th:
7:00 - Slovakia v. Germany
7:00 - Czech Rep. v. Norway

Tuesday, December 28th:
12:30 - Switzerland v. Finland
4:00 - Canada v. Czech Rep.
7:00 - Sweden v. Russia
8:00 - USA v. Slovakia

Wednesday, December 29th:
3:30 - Finland v. Germany
7:30 - Norway v. Canada

Thursday, December 30th:
3:00 - Switzerland v. Slovakia
3:00 - Sweden v. Czech Rep.
7:00 - Russia v. Norway
7:00 - Germany v. USA

Friday, December 31st:
12:30 - Slovakia v. Finland
4:00 - Canada v. Sweden
7:00 - Czech Rep. v. Russia
8:00 - USA v. Switzerland

Quarterfinals:
Sunday, January 2nd, 3:30PM
Sunday, January 2nd, 7:30PM

Semifinals:
Monday, January 3rd, 3:30PM
Monday, January 3rd, 7:30PM

Championship:
Wednesday, January 5th, 7:30PM
Click to expand...

Also, remember that some of these games are at Dwyer Rink. I'm pretty sure all of the USA and Canada games will be at the Au- er HSBC Arena, since the 200-level tickets as part of a day pass are $80 for those two teams. And that's just pool play.

BTW, this Saturday at 9AM, single game tickets will be going on sale, at least that's what they announced at the Sabres game last night.
 
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Hokydad said:
dont than.

all of the players who went thru ndtp would have in all sense and purpose been just as good a player they are today by playing in the uSHL

If Kane had played for Blais(last years WJC winning coach) he would have been the exact same player. I would assume he would have been capable of teaching him just as much
What we wouldnt have is the obsession of ndtp to force only the national kids onto the WJC rosters and camps.

If these kids had played for Carlson at Cedar Rapids or Blaise or Fargo or Waterloo, they would have been just as good, we woldnt have so much political crap on camp selection and kane would still have a ring.


and most importantly, the 6-13 year olds wopuldnt have had to pony up 4 mllion bucks and it could have been used for more national development

have you ever looked at the annual budget for admin and staff for ndtp?
the chances of it going away are zero, and for all the wrong reasons
Click to expand...


People get paid to do jobs. That's how it works.

So your solution to the NTDP is to have all of our best players play for a couple of selected junior teams with specific coaches? You could control this? What do you do when Blais bolts to UNO, send those kids to college with him?

So you're saying that junior teams offer the same level of structure, training, coaching and discipline as the NTDP?

You have absolutely no idea how Kane would have turned out had he gone the junior route. He's a bit of a hellion, so maybe he would have had a bit too much freedom in the juniors and would now have 4 kids with 3 women and be in AA. You have no idea.

Your stupidity is astounding. If you want to make your argument, fine, but at least have ONE valid point.
 
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

I'm guessing that USA and Canada games are all being carried on the NHL network again? As well as selected other games...
 
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

bigblue_dl said:
I'm guessing that USA and Canada games are all being carried on the NHL network again? As well as selected other games...
Click to expand...

I don't know, I haven't seen the schedule. Also, I know at least on the 28th (that's when I am attending) that there will be 3 games at HSBC, with likely the Russia game at another arena (I believe Dwyer). I'm sure we'll see on NHL Network's website within the near future what their broadcast plans are.
 
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

You have absolutely no idea how Kane would have turned out had he gone the junior route. He's a bit of a hellion, so maybe he would have had a bit too much freedom in the juniors and would now have 4 kids with 3 women and be in AA. You have no idea.

Your stupidity is astounding. If you want to make your argument, fine, but at least have ONE valid point.[/QUOTE]

and neither do you.......

yes, they would have been just as good after playing 2 years in USHL. to say otherwise is foolish

didnt seem to hurt Schwartz much last year

what do the natl kids do, sneak in to the weight room at 3 am and do squats. the same squats the ushl kids are doing the exact same number of days?

cam fowler would have been same player either way as would the rest

i fairness, the 3rd and 4th liners would all have been better as they might have had 1st or 2nd line options in ushl

do they serve special protein shakes or secret vitamins there?

what happens when one coach leaves? they replace him with another one, almost always better than the ndtp guys. remember it was rolston who choked the previous year with a huge lead vs canada.

they would be the exact same after playing in ushl
 
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Hokydad said:
all of the players who went thru ndtp would have in all sense and purpose been just as good a player they are today by playing in the uSHL
Click to expand...
Prove it. At least provide some sort of evidence to back up this claim.
Hokydad said:
If Kane had played for Blais(last years WJC winning coach) he would have been the exact same player. I would assume he would have been capable of teaching him just as much
Click to expand...
Prove it. At least provide some sort of evidence to back up this claim. Your assumption does not equal proof.
Hokydad said:
If these kids had played for Carlson at Cedar Rapids or Blaise or Fargo or Waterloo, they would have been just as good, we woldnt have so much political crap on camp selection and kane would still have a ring.
Click to expand...
Prove it. At least provide some sort of evidence to back up this claim.

We're waiting.
 
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

The detractors of the USNDTP usually point to Canada's model of decentralized player development as the superior model. This system works well in Canada, because the Canada pool is much deeper to begin with, and there is also a deeper coaching pool for them, and everywhere in Canada, you can find a high level of junior competition. Not so in the USA, where players are fewer, coaching is hit-and -miss and US junior leagues lack depth.

The USTDP works because our pool is not as deep as Canada's, and our top players do get better by playing against each other every day in practice, and by lifting weights in a serious trainining enviroment. It's not an accident that US team performance in many international competitions has gone up dramatically since the USNTDP was started, and the other big dividend is the fact that our international teams now have a built in nucleus of guys who know each other well. The elite sports training center model works well in many other sports, as well, and NHL teams have been effusive in praise of what USA Hockey is doing in Ann Arbor, as well.

Sure it costs some money, but I think it's mostly well spent. Before the Development program, the only International competitions the US won were Olympic compeitions, where the USA would have 5 months to develop a team on a pre-Olympic tour. Of course, some players will develop anywhere you put them, but all in all, it's working. Politics? Sure there are, as there are in all elite sports organizations have them. It's no joke. The international results alone are worth the investment, even if the player development impact aspect is harder to measure.
 
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Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Originally Posted by Hokydad
If Kane had played for Blais(last years WJC winning coach) he would have been the exact same player. I would assume he would have been capable of teaching him just as much

Prove it. At least provide some sort of evidence to back up this claim.

We're waiting.[/QUOTE]

Blais wins gold, Rolston chokes and doesnt and almost gets fired. should have, wonder what politics stopped it

i use the same proof you use when you say ndtp is the main reason why we are having intl success. bs. they would be the same today from ushl. all were the best when they went in, the same as most are now. to the contrary, the 3rd and 4th liners went backwards as they were left off special teams
 
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

There is some information on the broadcasting on the NHL network website:

Sunday, December 26

Start Time Program Title
10:00 AM HD Classics: 2010 World Junior Championship Quarterfinal - Finland vs. USA
12:00 PM HD Classics: 2010 World Junior Championship Semifinal - USA vs. Sweden
2:00 PM HD Classics: 2010 World Junior Championship Gold Medal Game - USA vs. Canada
4:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Russia vs. Canada
8:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Finland vs. USA

Tuesday, December 28

Start Time Program Title
4:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Canada vs. Czech Republic
8:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: USA vs. Slovakia

Wednesday, December 29

Start Time Program Title
4:00 AM Encore Presentation - 2011 WJC USA vs. Slovakia from 12/28/10
9:00 AM Encore Presentation - 2011 WJC USA vs. Slovakia from 12/28/10
7:30 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Norway vs. Canada

Thursday, December 30

Start Time Program Title
3:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Sweden vs. Czech Republic
7:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Germany vs. USA

Friday, December 31

Start Time Program Title
4:00 AM Encore Presentation - 2011 WJC Germany vs. USA from 12/30/10
9:00 AM Encore Presentation - 2011 WJC Germany vs. USA from 12/30/10
4:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Canada vs. Sweden
8:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: USA vs. Switzerland

Sunday, January 2

Start Time Program Title
3:30 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Quarterfinal # 1
7:30 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Quarterfinal # 2
 
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Hokydad said:
Blais wins gold, Rolston chokes and doesnt and almost gets fired.
Click to expand...

Brooks won gold in 80, but silver in 02. Was he less of a coach in 02?

Still stupid.
 
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

FlagDUDE08 said:
I don't know, I haven't seen the schedule. Also, I know at least on the 28th (that's when I am attending) that there will be 3 games at HSBC, with likely the Russia game at another arena (I believe Dwyer). I'm sure we'll see on NHL Network's website within the near future what their broadcast plans are.
Click to expand...
You are correct that Dwyer is hosting the "overflow" games from HSBC.
 
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

just spent the week in toronto... tsn was broadcasting a preview show or something last night at 1030p. there were ads for that all day, all week. also promos for the tourney itself. big deal (as we all know with them). but seeing it 24/7 brought it home.
 
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

mookie1995 said:
just spent the week in toronto... tsn was broadcasting a preview show or something last night at 1030p. there were ads for that all day, all week. also promos for the tourney itself. big deal (as we all know with them). but seeing it 24/7 brought it home.
Click to expand...

This would make it so sweet if we could beat them again. They'd probably invade, if they had their own army, that is.
 
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

of the 9 hockey east players on the pre-tourney roster, who do you guys think will make it? my guess is coyle, clendening and dumoulin are all locks. clendening only because of his ntdp involvement, of course
 
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Redd10 said:
of the 9 hockey east players on the pre-tourney roster, who do you guys think will make it? my guess is coyle, clendening and dumoulin are all locks. clendening only because of his ntdp involvement, of course
Click to expand...

Correct on Coyle, Clendening and Dumoulin. Sounds like Samuelsson will make it, too. I don't think he should, but I'm hearing he will. Nieto, Brickley and Oleksiak are all right on the bubble, but will probably be out barring an injury. Wey would have to be absolutely spectacular in camp and probably have a couple guys go down to make it.

Edit: And obviously Kreider's a lock, too.
 
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Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Redd10 said:
of the 9 hockey east players on the pre-tourney roster, who do you guys think will make it? my guess is coyle, clendening and dumoulin are all locks. clendening only because of his ntdp involvement, of course
Click to expand...

Uh... Chris Kreider.
 
Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

Re: The WJC Thread that HOKYDOPE didn't Start. USA! USA! USA!

bigblue_dl said:
There is some information on the broadcasting on the NHL network website:

Sunday, December 26

Start Time Program Title
10:00 AM HD Classics: 2010 World Junior Championship Quarterfinal - Finland vs. USA
12:00 PM HD Classics: 2010 World Junior Championship Semifinal - USA vs. Sweden
2:00 PM HD Classics: 2010 World Junior Championship Gold Medal Game - USA vs. Canada
4:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Russia vs. Canada
8:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Finland vs. USA

Tuesday, December 28

Start Time Program Title
4:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Canada vs. Czech Republic
8:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: USA vs. Slovakia

Wednesday, December 29

Start Time Program Title
4:00 AM Encore Presentation - 2011 WJC USA vs. Slovakia from 12/28/10
9:00 AM Encore Presentation - 2011 WJC USA vs. Slovakia from 12/28/10
7:30 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Norway vs. Canada

Thursday, December 30

Start Time Program Title
3:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Sweden vs. Czech Republic
7:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Germany vs. USA

Friday, December 31

Start Time Program Title
4:00 AM Encore Presentation - 2011 WJC Germany vs. USA from 12/30/10
9:00 AM Encore Presentation - 2011 WJC Germany vs. USA from 12/30/10
4:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Canada vs. Sweden
8:00 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: USA vs. Switzerland

Sunday, January 2

Start Time Program Title
3:30 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Quarterfinal # 1
7:30 PM 2011 World Junior Championship: Quarterfinal # 2
Click to expand...

Semi-finals
Mon, Jan. 3
15:30
Mon, Jan. 3
19:30
If qualified, USA to play in 19:30 game, if USA not qualified and CAN qualified, CAN to play in 15:30 game.

5th-place game

Tue, Jan. 4
19:30
Loser 21
vs.
Loser 23

Bronze-medal game
Wed, Jan. 5
15:30
Loser 25
vs.
Loser 26

Final
Wed, Jan. 5
19:30
Winner 25
vs.
Winner 26
 
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