What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

5mn_Major said:
First, as liberal as Cal is...it would never get the kind of voter consensus to push anything through. If it got close, CA's business community (not insubstantial including SF and silicon valley) would not let it just happen. Even then, the federal government (and I believe including Trump) would not stand by as doubt that it would willingly let over 15% of its population and more of its economy just up and leave. There's also this little thing of history as already pointed out. With what's at stake a none existent likelihood of Texas leaving is probably even more likely than CA.
Click to expand...

I don't think it will actually happen.
Getting rid of the left coast is a flyover state republican's wet dream though. I've seen people wishing this would happen. They think California has too much control over their life.
 
BassAle said:
I don't think it will actually happen.
Getting rid of the left coast is a flyover state republican's wet dream though. I've seen people wishing this would happen. They think California has too much control over their life.
Click to expand...

But Kep wants most of the South to go away. What's the difference?

As Chuck Todd related, the media and the Dems have become coast centric and ignored "flyover" USA in the past election. Don't continue to make that mistake.

The coasts are an important part of this country. However that does not mean that every time they fart out a new idea I have to think it is sweet smelling.
 
joecct said:
But Kep wants most of the South to go away. What's the difference?

As Chuck Todd related, the media and the Dems have become coast centric and ignored "flyover" USA in the past election. Don't continue to make that mistake.

The coasts are an important part of this country. However that does not mean that every time they fart out a new idea I have to think it is sweet smelling.
Click to expand...

And as pretty much a lifelong resident of the Midwest, let's stop pretending that all farmers are Renaissance men and not the common clay of the land, you know, idiots.
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

joecct said:
As Chuck Todd related, the media and the Dems have become coast centric and ignored "flyover" USA in the past election. Don't continue to make that mistake.
Click to expand...

Just saw today's MTP and heard the same thing.

(Side note, President Trump has gotten me move motivated in politics than I had been in the last eight years. I got complacent and felt the nation was in pretty good hands, almost felt like Obama had the nation on auto-pilot. Now our tangerine tinted drunk uncle was handed a set of pilot wings and thinks he's Tom Cruise in Top Gun.)

And it's true. The unions in Chicago were seeing much of the same, while they stumped for Hillary, their members felt they more aligned with Trump.

The Democrats have lost the rust belt, coal miners, and other blue collar workers by somehow not being able to get in touch with these constituents on their level. Somehow, the Dems never related ACA as being beneficial to this target demographic. No one explained "hey, you're going to pay more, but now you're whole family is covered." Having fewer and fewer choices for health insurance also hurt. Were there flaws with ACA? Sure, but it could have been worked over pretty good without repealing. But instead, the rural voters felt that "The gubermint was stealin' my money and misusing it! I'd rather buy a big screen TV with that $500 a year!!"

Dems need to do build their core base back up, without losing the gains they've made in other areas of their new base. They need to reclaim state houses. Need to build up their core states.

Sadly it's going to take more than three and a half years to do.
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

aparch said:
The Democrats have lost the rust belt, coal miners, and other blue collar workers by somehow not being able to get in touch with these constituents on their level. Somehow, the Dems never related ACA as being beneficial to this target demographic. No one explained "hey, you're going to pay more, but now you're whole family is covered." Having fewer and fewer choices for health insurance also hurt. Were there flaws with ACA? Sure, but it could have been worked over pretty good without repealing. But instead, the rural voters felt that "The gubermint was stealin' my money and misusing it! I'd rather buy a big screen TV with that $500 a year!!"
Click to expand...

People who think that way are already lost. No amount of explaining will get them to think that government healthcare is a good idea.
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

aparch said:
Just saw today's MTP and heard the same thing.

(Side note, President Trump has gotten me move motivated in politics than I had been in the last eight years. I got complacent and felt the nation was in pretty good hands, almost felt like Obama had the nation on auto-pilot. Now our tangerine tinted drunk uncle was handed a set of pilot wings and thinks he's Tom Cruise in Top Gun.)

And it's true. The unions in Chicago were seeing much of the same, while they stumped for Hillary, their members felt they more aligned with Trump.

The Democrats have lost the rust belt, coal miners, and other blue collar workers by somehow not being able to get in touch with these constituents on their level. Somehow, the Dems never related ACA as being beneficial to this target demographic. No one explained "hey, you're going to pay more, but now you're whole family is covered." Having fewer and fewer choices for health insurance also hurt. Were there flaws with ACA? Sure, but it could have been worked over pretty good without repealing. But instead, the rural voters felt that "The gubermint was stealin' my money and misusing it! I'd rather buy a big screen TV with that $500 a year!!"

Dems need to do build their core base back up, without losing the gains they've made in other areas of their new base. They need to reclaim state houses. Need to build up their core states.

Sadly it's going to take more than three and a half years to do.
Click to expand...

Well part of that is many Dems didnt like the ACA and they all hung it on Obama's neck. Then as premiums rose they half heartedly defended it for fear they would lose support as the GOP railed on it in Middle America.

The other part is the average Joe didnt want to hear about why it is better to pay more money to cover themselves, their family and other people. They would rather get their $25 a month plan that covers nothing than pay an actual amount and be able to go to the doctor with it bankrupting you. They see the GOP showing the price increase and forget that the prices were going up anyways.

And of course there is a certain percentage that had no idea the ACA was Obamacare so they actually support it (cause they have it) but they are so uneducated on the actual facts they have no idea. These are the people who hate socialism but get Medicare and Social Security. These are the people who rail against taxes but then whine because the roads and bridges are in disrepair and no one plows the streets.
 
Jimjamesak said:
...If the Feds actually allowed interstate commerce between states where it's legal it'd be even bigger than $7 billion.
Click to expand...
Didn't we already have that discussion?? :)

The Feds should. And if I'm an illegal state, I'm finding a way to tax your trucks carrying that immoral mind bending substance to fill MY coffers.
 
joecct said:
The Feds should. And if I'm an illegal state, I'm finding a way to tax your trucks carrying that immoral mind bending substance to fill MY coffers.
Click to expand...
With Washington, Oregon, California, and Nevada all having legalization you have nice corridor where that is not an issue. Colorado is unfortunately boxed out by a few ultra conservative states, Utah probably the biggest. D.C., Mass, and Maine are on their own...
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

joecct said:
The Feds should. And if I'm an illegal state, I'm finding a way to tax your trucks carrying that immoral mind bending substance to fill MY coffers.
Click to expand...

The Commerce Clause has been mightily abused, but I'm pretty sure even Antonin Scalia would have agreed that would violate it. :p :p :p

I mean, as long as it wasn't fetal tissue...
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

Jimjamesak said:
With Washington, Oregon, California, and Nevada all having legalization you have nice corridor where that is not an issue. Colorado is unfortunately boxed out by a few ultra conservative states, Utah probably the biggest. D.C., Mass, and Maine are on their own...
Click to expand...

The entire west coast is in, and the east coast down to the Potomac will soon follow.

Just one of those cases where the smarter, richer states will get smarter and richer, and the dumber, poorer states will get dumber and poorer.

We are headed for two actual Americas. Jesusland and, well, Southern Canada.
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

joecct said:
Didn't we already have that discussion?? :)

The Feds should. And if I'm an illegal state, I'm finding a way to tax your trucks carrying that immoral mind bending substance to fill MY coffers.
Click to expand...

I don't know about the other states, but CO isn't importing anything, we support local farmers ;)
 
Kepler said:
The entire west coast is in, and the east coast down to the Potomac will soon follow.

Just one of those cases where the smarter, richer states will get smarter and richer, and the dumber, poorer states will get dumber and poorer.

We are headed for two actual Americas. Jesusland and, well, Southern Canada.
Click to expand...
Alaska has already jumped in (although our Legislature really dragged on it) and I imagine Hawaii isn't too far behind. Couple that with B.C. (and possibly Canada as a whole) and you have large portion on the continent carved out.

I know I mentioned the California succession thing but I wonder how it would be if California, Hawaii, Oregon, and Washington all said "f* it we're out!" together?
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

Jimjamesak said:
Alaska has already jumped in (although our Legislature really dragged on it) and I imagine Hawaii isn't too far behind. Couple that with B.C. (and possibly Canada as a whole) and you have large portion on the continent carved out.

I know I mentioned the California succession thing but I wonder how it would be if California, Hawaii, Oregon, and Washington all said "f* it we're out!" together?
Click to expand...

It would be Dr. Mrs. and I on the first flight there, for one thing.
 
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy

Jimjamesak said:
I know I mentioned the California succession thing but I wonder how it would be if California, Hawaii, Oregon, and Washington all said "f* it we're out!" together?
Click to expand...
I think I can take a pretty good guess.

First, because Trump lost the popular vote in those states by about 5 to 5.5 million votes, my guess is the petition would be summarily approved.

However, I bet he'd take a look at another petition at the same time.
 
Kepler said:
It would be Dr. Mrs. and I on the first flight there, for one thing.
Click to expand...
One of our more er enterprising Governors Wally Hickel advocated building a water pipeline from Alaska to California. Should the situation ever arise where the West Coast says "f* it we're out" a shrewd Alaska would probably suggest this.

But we have a lot of idiots here so I doubt they would...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top