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The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
- Thread starter Kepler
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Jimjamesak
Already insane, UAA making it worse
<img src="http://pinkie.mylittlefacewhen.com/media/f/img/mlfw3981-implied_facepalm.gif"></img>I notice Kep isn't good at answering questions. I think he joined another commune again.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
The GOP has learned to vote party. The Democrats have not. Until that changes I don't see anything anyone can do. The way Kep has written that he wants us to actually believe that Trump was a better candidate than Hillary Clinton.
If that's true then just lock the doors and batten down the hatches cause everything is going red.
Getting a lot of pushback from the people who want to see Bernie naked (Kepler, Jimjamesak, etc). One problem though. I've never pegged Sanders voters as the problem of low turnout!Look it up. I don't know yet who didn't show this year. It could have been Sanders people. It could have been African Americans. It could have been women. Eventually those #'s will come out, but for right now its an unknown.
HOWEVER, a much, much larger point remains. For those who want to blame Hillary Clinton almost exclusively for this you're papering over much larger problems for the Democratic party. Their entire base, be it centrists, conservadems or flaming liberals aren't participating in elections at the same rate Republicans are, even though the GOP is working off of a smaller base. This has happened repeatedly.
Jim claims bad candidates keep people way. Well, that didn't seem to hurt Trump now did it? Furthermore, lets say people were uninspired by Hillary but would have voted for a true liberal? Great! Then why did uber-liberal Russ Fiengold get LESS votes in his senate race than Hillary did for Prez in Wisconsin??? If she was the problem, shouldn't he have won at least? Or at least out voted her?
Too many Dems, and I'll say its usually the hard left, think the problem is a lack of purity in the Dem candidates, even though I fail to see what was wrong with many of the Senate candidates the Dems put up last year. I say the problem is an expectation of purity or we won't vote out of Democratic voters. In politics, like life, you sometimes accept 80% of what you want because its better than 0%. Far too many lefty voters, no matter where they fall on the ideological spectrum, don't understand this. I'd also argue its most likely the moderate/centrist Dem voters who do get this more than the vegan co-op crowd.
But Kep, do us a favor and post all of your best Trump like sexist nicknames for Clinton that you used out here during the campaign. That really helped the cause.
The GOP has learned to vote party. The Democrats have not. Until that changes I don't see anything anyone can do. The way Kep has written that he wants us to actually believe that Trump was a better candidate than Hillary Clinton.
If that's true then just lock the doors and batten down the hatches cause everything is going red.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Fifteen years ago everyone was saying the exact opposite.
Truth to the matter is that the party with the majority of voters always succumbs to fracturing. The Big Tent that both of the big parties want will invariably lead to said fracturing, and thus causing the pendulum to swing back to the other when it comes to gaining power over the government. It's not quite clockwork, but it's close enough.
Fifteen years ago everyone was saying the exact opposite.
Truth to the matter is that the party with the majority of voters always succumbs to fracturing. The Big Tent that both of the big parties want will invariably lead to said fracturing, and thus causing the pendulum to swing back to the other when it comes to gaining power over the government. It's not quite clockwork, but it's close enough.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Really, and where was the fracturing of the GOP going exactly? There have been two major movements on the right that I can think of off the top of my head. The Christian Right, and the Tea Party. In both cases those factions VOTED GOP and joined the Republican Party.
What do the Democrats do? They vote for Nader or some other schmuck or they stay home.
I don't buy your premise.
Really, and where was the fracturing of the GOP going exactly? There have been two major movements on the right that I can think of off the top of my head. The Christian Right, and the Tea Party. In both cases those factions VOTED GOP and joined the Republican Party.
What do the Democrats do? They vote for Nader or some other schmuck or they stay home.
I don't buy your premise.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
And you and I both know that part of that is because two states on opposite coasts vote liberal. (California alone means you need to grade on a massive curve) You can dress it up how you like but losing the Electoral College 3 out of the last 5 (against absolutely dreadful candidates) shows the Left arent motivated enough to win in the states where it matters most unless the candidate gets them tingly in their giblets. They dont want to play the game which is why they are always whining about changing it. (see: you and the Electoral College)
Its like sports...losers blame the refs. Winners play the game and look for ways to win. Losers talk about "winning with class" while winners win and say "if you dont like beat me!" Dems are too precious and arent willing to get their hands dirty. Sure they will march after the fact and raise holy hell...wanna take bets on whether they show up for the midterms? I will let you pick the odds! We know they wont because they never do. The only way the GOP will be pushed out is if their own people turn on them...
The Dems have the numbers, they just dont have the stones to actually fight for what they believe in.
And you and I both know that part of that is because two states on opposite coasts vote liberal. (California alone means you need to grade on a massive curve) You can dress it up how you like but losing the Electoral College 3 out of the last 5 (against absolutely dreadful candidates) shows the Left arent motivated enough to win in the states where it matters most unless the candidate gets them tingly in their giblets. They dont want to play the game which is why they are always whining about changing it. (see: you and the Electoral College)
Its like sports...losers blame the refs. Winners play the game and look for ways to win. Losers talk about "winning with class" while winners win and say "if you dont like beat me!" Dems are too precious and arent willing to get their hands dirty. Sure they will march after the fact and raise holy hell...wanna take bets on whether they show up for the midterms? I will let you pick the odds! We know they wont because they never do. The only way the GOP will be pushed out is if their own people turn on them...
The Dems have the numbers, they just dont have the stones to actually fight for what they believe in.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Normally I agree but the GOP ended up still voting for Drumpf in equal numbers as before despite the supposed fracturing that was happening within. The GOP is Party First...they dont even care about issues just making sure their name is at the top of the marquee.
The Dems need to get closer to that and fast. Stop acting like precious little flowers and wake up.
Normally I agree but the GOP ended up still voting for Drumpf in equal numbers as before despite the supposed fracturing that was happening within. The GOP is Party First...they dont even care about issues just making sure their name is at the top of the marquee.
The Dems need to get closer to that and fast. Stop acting like precious little flowers and wake up.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Really? Then how did the GOP lose Congress first and then the Presidency?
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Hello? Anyone home? Dems didn't stay home that year. They liked the candidate. Everyone was all Obama excited. Congress I gather they lost because of the war. You know, the one the GOP said they would win "Fast".
Hello? Anyone home? Dems didn't stay home that year. They liked the candidate. Everyone was all Obama excited. Congress I gather they lost because of the war. You know, the one the GOP said they would win "Fast".
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
They liked Obama enough to come out to vote in 2006, when liberals traditionally stay home? Truth of the matter is that a large portion of Republican voters were disillusioned by both Congress and W. They stayed home because a fracturing of the party occurred. Every single talking head at the time discussed how the GOP was losing itself to its own divisions.
They liked Obama enough to come out to vote in 2006, when liberals traditionally stay home? Truth of the matter is that a large portion of Republican voters were disillusioned by both Congress and W. They stayed home because a fracturing of the party occurred. Every single talking head at the time discussed how the GOP was losing itself to its own divisions.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Which means disenchantment is cyclical and the out of power party is more and more able to generate Righteous Anger against the status quo, which the incumbent has to try to defend.
All of these systemic effects benefit the Dems next time. Add in that the incumbent president is actually mentally unstable.
Which means disenchantment is cyclical and the out of power party is more and more able to generate Righteous Anger against the status quo, which the incumbent has to try to defend.
All of these systemic effects benefit the Dems next time. Add in that the incumbent president is actually mentally unstable.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
2006 wasnt just about Liberals voting...IIRC GOPers voted out their own people as well. The base of the GOP was not pleased about the Dubya Administration and the War was not helping in any way.
4 years later the Dems reverted back to the mean, the GOPers voted again and we got the gridlock of the majority of the Obama Administration.
2006 wasnt just about Liberals voting...IIRC GOPers voted out their own people as well. The base of the GOP was not pleased about the Dubya Administration and the War was not helping in any way.
4 years later the Dems reverted back to the mean, the GOPers voted again and we got the gridlock of the majority of the Obama Administration.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
I answered that below. It was the GOP's stupid war that did that.
They voted for Trump this year and from what he saying on the campaign trail he's not a Republican. They're loving life now though cause he's going to do a lot of things they want to do.
Hillary would have done the same for the Democrats. But, no, purity problem.
There is a difference here. I don't buy the pendulum. It's base voters and everything can be explained with the bases of the two parties.
I answered that below. It was the GOP's stupid war that did that.
They voted for Trump this year and from what he saying on the campaign trail he's not a Republican. They're loving life now though cause he's going to do a lot of things they want to do.
Hillary would have done the same for the Democrats. But, no, purity problem.
There is a difference here. I don't buy the pendulum. It's base voters and everything can be explained with the bases of the two parties.
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Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Your point about Feingold is a fair one. Some of my friends and I (who went door-to-door) were just recently asking ourselves what could explain that vote.
Your point about Feingold is a fair one. Some of my friends and I (who went door-to-door) were just recently asking ourselves what could explain that vote.
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
That's emblematic of the crackerjack analysis I've seen out of pundidiots which is what I'm fighting against. Not sure what inspired Kep to launch a personal attack against me as I've said 100 times I don't know which subset of Dems stayed home (libs, blacks, women, youngsters, etc) but I suspect he thought I was going the "its Bernie's fault" route.
BUT, a clear headed view is needed. Hillary outran IIRC every Dem Senate candidate in a swing state race (will have to double check NH). Dems also I believe only gained seats in the House in districts that she won herself, and lost 24 seats that she won. By my count the only candidate who pulled out a tough race by winning more votes than her was Cooper for NC Gov.
So, the problem isn't based on Hillary. The problem is Dems collectively didn't show up throughout the country for any races, save for NC governor. I base that on her outrunning everyone in their own states. Maybe some of them were bad candidates, but ALL of them? C'mon already. This is the kind of question that needs to be answered or the same thing will keep happening as Scooby and Handy are correctly warning about.
That's emblematic of the crackerjack analysis I've seen out of pundidiots which is what I'm fighting against. Not sure what inspired Kep to launch a personal attack against me as I've said 100 times I don't know which subset of Dems stayed home (libs, blacks, women, youngsters, etc) but I suspect he thought I was going the "its Bernie's fault" route.
BUT, a clear headed view is needed. Hillary outran IIRC every Dem Senate candidate in a swing state race (will have to double check NH). Dems also I believe only gained seats in the House in districts that she won herself, and lost 24 seats that she won. By my count the only candidate who pulled out a tough race by winning more votes than her was Cooper for NC Gov.
So, the problem isn't based on Hillary. The problem is Dems collectively didn't show up throughout the country for any races, save for NC governor. I base that on her outrunning everyone in their own states. Maybe some of them were bad candidates, but ALL of them? C'mon already. This is the kind of question that needs to be answered or the same thing will keep happening as Scooby and Handy are correctly warning about.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Just to be clear, I'm not saying you're an idiot. I'm merely pointing out your ideas are idiotic. You're still voting D so I know you have some sense.
OTOH you have repeatedly used nasty and personal language denigrating everyone who doesn't march in lock step with your silly views, even after being called out on it, and even after it's become pretty apparent that it doesn't fly here, and just when we've all but forgotten all your assurances about the elections and your denigration of everyone with the impoliteness not to drink your Kool Aid.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying you're an idiot. I'm merely pointing out your ideas are idiotic. You're still voting D so I know you have some sense.
OTOH you have repeatedly used nasty and personal language denigrating everyone who doesn't march in lock step with your silly views, even after being called out on it, and even after it's become pretty apparent that it doesn't fly here, and just when we've all but forgotten all your assurances about the elections and your denigration of everyone with the impoliteness not to drink your Kool Aid.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
Exactly. Back around June/July/August you posted some sort of test that a professor had come up with that said if the score was over X, the incumbent party will lose. Didn't that point to the Dems losing power?
Exactly. Back around June/July/August you posted some sort of test that a professor had come up with that said if the score was over X, the incumbent party will lose. Didn't that point to the Dems losing power?
By being stupid. When in power, the GOP have an innate ability to shoot themselves in the foot.
unofan
Well-known member
Re: The States: Mad Scientist Laboratories of Democracy
The Stache asked state workers in Iowa to voluntarily give up their 1.25% pay bump that happened on January 1 because of a mid year deficit created by his corporate tax breaks. The only thing he offered in return was a possibility of avoiding some layoffs in the future. In other words, nothing.
What a farking joke. I hope the unions tell him to pound sand.
The Stache asked state workers in Iowa to voluntarily give up their 1.25% pay bump that happened on January 1 because of a mid year deficit created by his corporate tax breaks. The only thing he offered in return was a possibility of avoiding some layoffs in the future. In other words, nothing.
What a farking joke. I hope the unions tell him to pound sand.
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