The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

[The Rube]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

When your livelihood is literally killing you.

While I feel sorry for the after-effects, if one worked for the coal companies, one knew the risks and the results, for the most part. Doesn't excuse the coal companies, but the workers are not totally blameless, nor are the communities.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

It's the companies who are blasting the mountains and clogging up the streams with the tailings, which is poisoning the groundwater. Not sure how that puts any blame on the workers. They do what they're told, or else they're unemployed. Mines are regulated at the state and federal levels, so if the companies have owned the land for years, there's not much the community can do to stop it.

The companies should be paying for the cleanup, and they shouldn't be allowed to use this mining technique just because it's (presumably) a lot cheaper than drilling.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

It's the companies who are blasting the mountains and clogging up the streams with the tailings, which is poisoning the groundwater. Not sure how that puts any blame on the workers. They do what they're told, or else they're unemployed. Mines are regulated at the state and federal levels, so if the companies have owned the land for years, there's not much the community can do to stop it.

The companies should be paying for the cleanup, and they shouldn't be allowed to use this mining technique just because it's (presumably) a lot cheaper than drilling.

You sign up for a job, you know the risks (or presumable risks). In some cases, yeah it sucks, because it's either that or not have a job, or have a crappier job. However, you still signed up.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

You're deflecting from the point, Rube. Just because a job is dangerous and you signed up for it, doesn't mean your employer shouldn't be required to adhere to best practices designed to prevent accidents and environmental damage, and minimize the risk of short/long-term health problems.

This all comes down to the ridiculous amount of influence Big Coal has on West Virginia and its state legislators.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

You're deflecting from the point, Rube. Just because a job is dangerous and you signed up for it, doesn't mean your employer shouldn't be required to adhere to best practices designed to prevent accidents and environmental damage, and minimize the risk of short/long-term health problems.

This all comes down to the ridiculous amount of influence Big Coal has on West Virginia and its state legislators.

1. They should take all precautions.
2. Doesn't mean the workers are completely innocent, as they contribute to the cause.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

You sign up for a job, you know the risks (or presumable risks). In some cases, yeah it sucks, because it's either that or not have a job, or have a crappier job. However, you still signed up.

Contaminated drinking water at home isn't related to their employment.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

Contaminated drinking water at home isn't related to their employment.

It is, though. Impact of the company. Gotta think two steps ahead, you know?

Sounds silly, but Total Wine's impact on a city affects other things. Two mom-n-pop stores closed, because Total Wine bought them out to get a license in my city. That had a negative impact on jobs and choices of businesses to buy alcohol from. Coal company establishes themselves, and it hurts the environment. Choosing to work for them helps them keep them there.

Again, it's crappy. Sometimes a worker has no choice, s/he has to feed the family, but that does not absolve them fully. I dislike corporations, yet I work for one. I gotta pay the bills.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

It is, though. Impact of the company. Gotta think two steps ahead, you know?

Sounds silly, but Total Wine's impact on a city affects other things. Two mom-n-pop stores closed, because Total Wine bought them out to get a license in my city. That had a negative impact on jobs and choices of businesses to buy alcohol from. Coal company establishes themselves, and it hurts the environment. Choosing to work for them helps them keep them there.

Again, it's crappy. Sometimes a worker has no choice, s/he has to feed the family, but that does not absolve them fully. I dislike corporations, yet I work for one. I gotta pay the bills.

So no corporate responsibility, it's the workers fault. Well at least you are on board for a living wage at other crappy jobs so they have options. Oh wait...

 

[Handyman]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-cards="hidden" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Former West Virginia official who made racist Michelle Obama remark defrauded $18,000 from FEMA <a href="https://t.co/HOTGmT4EUu">https://t.co/HOTGmT4EUu</a> <a href="https://t.co/M0P3afYrxO">pic.twitter.com/M0P3afYrxO</a></p>— The Hill (@thehill) <a href="https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1097011782915379201?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 17, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[The Rube]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

So no corporate responsibility, it's the workers fault. Well at least you are on board for a living wage at other crappy jobs so they have options. Oh wait...

Where did I say that? As usual, you take one snippet of something and go extreme with it and make it into something that was never said.

What I actually am saying is that there no angels in the situation. The coal companies have most of the blame, and the workers have a little of the blame.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

Where did I say that? As usual, you take one snippet of something and go extreme with it and make it into something that was never said.

What I actually am saying is that there no angels in the situation. The coal companies have most of the blame, and the workers have a little of the blame.

Workers are blamed for what?

 

[The Rube]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

Workers are blamed for what?

Take a look at the Enbridge situation here in MN.

By working for the company, they are accepting the possibility of some of the aftermath, if anything happens.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

Take a look at the Enbridge situation here in MN.

By working for the company, they are accepting the possibility of some of the aftermath, if anything happens.

No. That's not the way it works.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

No. That's not the way it works.

Yes, that is the way it works. If a company has no workers they cannot operate. It works the same if a company has no customers; then they go out of business.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

Yes, that is the way it works. If a company has no workers they cannot operate. It works the same if a company has no customers; then they go out of business.

So, you're saying that a corporation is less culpable because workers work for them? Mitigating their responsibility?

No ****ing way in hell.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

So, you're saying that a corporation is less culpable because workers work for them? Mitigating their responsibility?

No ****ing way in hell.

That is not what I'm saying. What I am saying is by working for a company, one is at least begrudgingly accepting that company's practices and effects on the community it's in. Simply put, no employee is 100% blame-free.

A peon is much less to blame than the CEO, of course, and obviously. However....

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

That is not what I'm saying. What I am saying is by working for a company, one is at least begrudgingly accepting that company's practices and effects on the community it's in. Simply put, no employee is 100% blame-free.

A peon is much less to blame than the CEO, of course, and obviously. However....

No.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

Workers are blamed for what?

Forget it, he's rolling.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

Forget it, he's rolling.

Some don't shop at Hub Hobby or Chick-Fil-A because of their stances/etc. Same difference for employment. You work for, or shop at, a business, you accept their practices/beliefs/etc. And sometimes, yeah, don't really have a choice, it might be the only game in town, I get that part. However, that still means you accept what they do; might not be your first choice, but you still accept it.

 

[aparch]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

So if you found out your employer had a large contract to provide items for Trump's Border Children Summer Camps, and items for those camps routinely moved through your warehouse, you'd accept being "a part of the problem?" Or would you just find another job, because there are plenty of similar jobs in the area you could work at...



And a sixteen year old working at Chick-Fil-A isn't "accepting" of the beliefs of the owner. They're working a shi**y minimum wage job for spending money.