The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

Had a conversation with someone over the weekend about flu vaccinations at a major twin cities hospital. They said the vaccination craze is overdone and that the general agreement at their hospital is that they don't see much of a difference in outcomes in those with vaccinations.

Before insta-flaming begins - I'm getting my vaccination next week.

With regards to what vaccine? And how do you measure results? And is this just annecdotal instead of the mountain of peer-reviewed studies that say otherwise?

I’m not trying to flame you here, I’m just shocked that a medical professional would say that.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

With regards to what vaccine? And how do you measure results? And is this just annecdotal instead of the mountain of peer-reviewed studies that say otherwise?

I’m not trying to flame you here, I’m just shocked that a medical professional would say that.

Gotta be the Flu Vaccine which has always been hit or miss. That being said my doctor and clinic still recommends it.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

With regards to what vaccine? And how do you measure results? And is this just annecdotal instead of the mountain of peer-reviewed studies that say otherwise?

I’m not trying to flame you here, I’m just shocked that a medical professional would say that.

He didn't say it was a medical professional. Maybe it was a janitor?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

With regards to what vaccine? And how do you measure results? And is this just annecdotal instead of the mountain of peer-reviewed studies that say otherwise?

I’m not trying to flame you here, I’m just shocked that a medical professional would say that.

Not statistical. It was a simple conversation at a party. She was a nurse that apparently did walk ins referring to flu vaccination. I'm just saying what I heard.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

As I've recently said, I've never had the flu vax (nor have I ever contracted the flu). I agree, it's hit or miss when they guess at which strains will be big in the coming season. I can't honestly think of a good reason why I've never gotten the vax, other than laziness. I will probably get hammered with the flu eventually, particularly with all this air travel I've done the past 2.5 years.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

From the WaPo:

“Chickenpox has taken hold of a school in North Carolina where many families claim religious exemption from vaccines.”

Poor kids with idiot parents

Too bad it's not the parents getting it.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

As I've recently said, I've never had the flu vax (nor have I ever contracted the flu). I agree, it's hit or miss when they guess at which strains will be big in the coming season. I can't honestly think of a good reason why I've never gotten the vax, other than laziness. I will probably get hammered with the flu eventually, particularly with all this air travel I've done the past 2.5 years.

I have never got one either nor have I gotten the flu. I was never very susceptible to the flu when I was a kid I got strep all the time but never the flu.

I have friends that are teachers that get the shot every year and still get the flu all the time so I dont see much urgency in it.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

Had a conversation with someone over the weekend about flu vaccinations at a major twin cities hospital. They said the vaccination craze is overdone and that the general agreement at their hospital is that they don't see much of a difference in outcomes in those with vaccinations.

I would be interested in knowing which hospitals you refer to because I do know several people who would have access to that data at "a major twin cities hospital." In one of the the prior vaccine debates I had with Bob Gray, I outlined the strong evidence that is available for mandating influenza vaccinations among health care workers. I do not have the time to get into all of that again, but suffice to say when it is looked at systemically, the "vaccination craze" is not overdone and it saves lives.

Not statistical. It was a simple conversation at a party. She was a nurse that apparently did walk ins referring to flu vaccination. I'm just saying what I heard.

That makes more sense. I have nurses tell patients wrong information all of the time regarding vaccinations. There was a recent case of an antivaccine nurse in texas getting fired for breaking HIPPA after posting on facebook about a kid she saw go to the PICU when they got measles. She said it was "scary" but did not change her antivaccine thoughts. She even mused about swabbing the kid to infect others who were not vaccinated for "natural immunity." Health care workers say stupid things all the time...nurses and doctors alike.

I have never got one either nor have I gotten the flu. I was never very susceptible to the flu when I was a kid I got strep all the time but never the flu.

I have friends that are teachers that get the shot every year and still get the flu all the time so I dont see much urgency in it.

You may have gotten the flu and did not know. Most people cannot pick out the symptoms and if it is mild, you may not know about it. I also do not trust people who say they have gotten it unless they have gotten the rapid PCR to confirm as there is a lot of crossover with other viral illnesses.

If you are young and healthy, you should get the vaccine to help those who cannot be vaccinated, the young, and the elderly. Having less spread of influenza saves lives. Or it may be the year it affects the young and healthy and we have a pandemic. There is also good data supporting that yearly vaccines provide protection extending out further than just 1 year.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

With regards to chicken pox: "Each year, more than 3.5 million cases of varicella, 9,000 hospitalizations, and 100 deaths are prevented by varicella vaccination in the United States."
https://www.cdc.gov/chickenpox/surveillance/monitoring-varicella.html

People die from this or are sick enough to take a hospital bed from another person who may need it. With regards to shingles, we actually do not know yet if the vaccinated population will require re-vaccination or a different shingles vaccine recommendation. Stay tuned...

 

[The Rube]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

When I was growing up it was pretty standard that if one child contracted chicken pox, you would expose other children to that child. It was thought that it was much better to get the disease as a child than as an adult. There was no vaccine then, for children, as I recall.

Pretty much the same with me, too. While I wasn't a part of one, parents would hold Chicken Pox Parties if a classmate got it. IIRC, unless it's a rare case, you can only get chicken pox once.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

Most people cannot pick out the symptoms and if it is mild

I have never known a case of mild flu. The few times I've gotten the flu I've been on my back for at least 3-4 days, usually longer. Even in high school. (Save for the swine flu. That was shorter in duration for me.)

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

I have never known a case of mild flu. The few times I've gotten the flu I've been on my back for at least 3-4 days, usually longer. Even in high school. (Save for the swine flu. That was shorter in duration for me.)

There are a lot of things that are "flu like" illness that are not influenza. Alternatively influenza symptoms are not specific and occur on a spectrum that ranges from asymptomatic to mild cough/cold like symptoms to requiring intensive care, intubation etc. It is very common for someone to misidentify themselves having the flu when they don't or thinking they have a winter cold when they actually have influenza.

Unless their certain testing is positive, you cannot really confirm that the viral illness is influenza based on symptoms alone. Also note that a "rapid flu" test often has poor sensitivity, meaning it can miss a fair bit of cases but can do the job in an ambulatory setting because the treatment is based on symptoms, not necessarily the exact pathogen. For hospitalized patients, we do confirmatory testing that takes more time but is more accurate because diagnosis and isolation is much more crucial. I have learned long ago that it is impossible to argue against an anecdote, and I certainly do not know enough information about your history to say one way or the other, but it is certainly possible if you were not tested each time with the correct test that you may be misidentifying the illness.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

There are a lot of things that are "flu like" illness that are not influenza. Alternatively influenza symptoms are not specific and occur on a spectrum that ranges from asymptomatic to mild cough/cold like symptoms to requiring intensive care, intubation etc. It is very common for someone to misidentify themselves having the flu when they don't or thinking they have a winter cold when they actually have influenza.

Unless their certain testing is positive, you cannot really confirm that the viral illness is influenza based on symptoms alone. Also note that a "rapid flu" test often has poor sensitivity, meaning it can miss a fair bit of cases but can do the job in an ambulatory setting because the treatment is based on symptoms, not necessarily the exact pathogen. For hospitalized patients, we do confirmatory testing that takes more time but is more accurate because diagnosis and isolation is much more crucial. I have learned long ago that it is impossible to argue against an anecdote, and I certainly do not know enough information about your history to say one way or the other, but it is certainly possible if you were not tested each time with the correct test that you may be misidentifying the illness.

It's possible we had it misidentified, but I don't suspect that was the case (my own opinion). I might have gotten tested once, but I specifically recall feeling like death the two times I've had the flu. I generally don't get achy muscles, very high fevers, or cold sweats when I get a cold. I was unable to keep even Ritz crackers down for a day or so. I also distinctly remember struggling to even turn in bed because I was so lethargic. They also lasted significantly longer than any other cold.

I understand why you're hesitant. My doctor brother is the same way for "flu" and "strep". And he's not wrong. What most people think is the flu is usually just a cold or a stomach bug. I don't think I was ever diagnosed as having the flu, however, I can still make a fairly educated guess based on me.

I'm not sure I buy the line that it's common for someone to misidentify themselves as having a cold when they actually have the flu. I just don't think the flu is that common. Otherwise, I would tend to agree with you on everything else.

YMMV.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

It's possible we had it misidentified, but I don't suspect that was the case (my own opinion). I might have gotten tested once, but I specifically recall feeling like death the two times I've had the flu. I generally don't get achy muscles, very high fevers, or cold sweats when I get a cold. I was unable to keep even Ritz crackers down for a day or so. I also distinctly remember struggling to even turn in bed because I was so lethargic. They also lasted significantly longer than any other cold.

I understand why you're hesitant. My doctor brother is the same way for "flu" and "strep". And he's not wrong. What most people think is the flu is usually just a cold or a stomach bug. I don't think I was ever diagnosed as having the flu, however, I can still make a fairly educated guess based on me.

I'm not sure I buy the line that it's common for someone to misidentify themselves as having a cold when they actually have the flu. I just don't think the flu is that common. Otherwise, I would tend to agree with you on everything else.

YMMV.

Fair enough. One last thing and I will stop because this is the wrong thread but I do enjoy the discussion The flu can be quite common. Last year it was estimated to cause a symptomatic illness in 49 million people including about 89,000 deaths in the united states.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html

 

[aparch]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

Michigan Republicans: the epitome of "Indian Givers."


"Michigan panel OKs scaling back minimum wage, sick time laws"

Bills advancing in Michigan's Republican-controlled Legislature would scale back new citizen-initiated laws to raise the minimum wage and require employers to provide paid sick leave.

The Senate Government Operations Committee passed the legislation 3-2, along party lines, Wednesday.

One bill would keep intact what eventually will be a $12 minimum hourly wage but remove a provision that raises the minimum for tipped employees to the level for other workers. Another bill would significantly change pending paid sick day requirements, reducing the number of hours from 72 to 36 annually.

Legislators passed the ballot initiatives in September rather than let them go to the ballot, making it easier to amend them now.

Lawmakers have enacted citizen initiatives seven times in the last 55 years but have never substantially scaled one back.

https://www.uppermichiganssource.co...cEI43QAFKr8q2bhEziBk2EutYhcJTz9C4MW7vED1IaSis

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

Michigan Goopers need to be hammered with that in 2020.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

Speaking of Michigan Goopers, they're busy shoving through shady bills, and generally throwing a post-election temper tantrum.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/po...549002/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

https://www.freep.com/story/news/ma...157002/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...tor-tom-casperson-tree-regulation/2142217002/

https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/2018/11/28/enbridge-line-5-straits-mackinac/2137883002/

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Several bills introduced today to make the Promote the Vote provisions harder to accomplish.</p>— Kathy Gray (@michpoligal) <a href="https://twitter.com/michpoligal/status/1068243949112836096?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 29, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Michigan Senate guts minimum wage hike, paid sick leave <a href="https://t.co/kRVrdoasC1">https://t.co/kRVrdoasC1</a> via ⁦<a href="https://twitter.com/freep?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@freep</a>⁩</p>— Kathy Gray (@michpoligal) <a href="https://twitter.com/michpoligal/status/1068103362833465344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 29, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Lame-duck bill would restrict state policing of fraudulent charities <a href="https://t.co/9AQccX5zNd">https://t.co/9AQccX5zNd</a> via ⁦<a href="https://twitter.com/freep?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@freep</a>⁩</p>— Kathy Gray (@michpoligal) <a href="https://twitter.com/michpoligal/status/1068103255920713729?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 29, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Nearly half-million acres of Michigan wetlands could soon lose protection <a href="https://t.co/ikMOlENcA1">https://t.co/ikMOlENcA1</a> via ⁦<a href="https://twitter.com/freep?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@freep</a>⁩</p>— Kathy Gray (@michpoligal) <a href="https://twitter.com/michpoligal/status/1068102939686969344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 29, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

And so much more to come, I'm sure. Goopers gonna Goop.

 

[joecct]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

Geography is no longer taught??

@CoryNBC: A groom trying to get a marriage license in D.C. had to convince a clerk that New Mexico is a state. When he first presented his driver's license to the clerk, she looked at it, went to talk to a supervisor and then asked to see his "New Mexico passport." http://nbc4dc.com/lkK7FWK

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

How did this woman pass a civil service exam?

 

[joecct]

Re: The States: At Least Michigan is Better Than Indiana

On a much more serious note, a 6.7 earthquake hit the Anchorage area today. Jimjamesak - hope you're ok.