ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
Sure. And I'm a car mechanic because I pump my own gas.
Sure. And I'm a car mechanic because I pump my own gas.
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The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
- Thread starter MissThundercat
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St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
Are you taking up the No True Scotsman flag from 5mm?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
There is definitely correlation between conservatism and some types of religious faith -- particularly western institutional religion -- though whether the causal arrows run either way is anybody's guess. The psych/brain consensus seems to be that humans have clusters of concepts and beliefs that "like to live together," to keep our cognitive dissonance at a minimum. The things associated with "conservatism" (respect for authority, preference for no or slow adaptation from traditions, investiture of continuity with its own value, etc) like to live together with some forms of religious belief (faith in a supernatural teleology, justification of the status quo as divinely inspired, mistrust of humanity as essentially flawed, deep suspicion of sexuality). Other rather widely held religious tenets (universal love, kindness, pacifism, emphasis of the essential equality of all souls) fit better with "liberalism."
The stuff that follows your colon is, well, stuff that follows your colon.
There is definitely correlation between conservatism and some types of religious faith -- particularly western institutional religion -- though whether the causal arrows run either way is anybody's guess. The psych/brain consensus seems to be that humans have clusters of concepts and beliefs that "like to live together," to keep our cognitive dissonance at a minimum. The things associated with "conservatism" (respect for authority, preference for no or slow adaptation from traditions, investiture of continuity with its own value, etc) like to live together with some forms of religious belief (faith in a supernatural teleology, justification of the status quo as divinely inspired, mistrust of humanity as essentially flawed, deep suspicion of sexuality). Other rather widely held religious tenets (universal love, kindness, pacifism, emphasis of the essential equality of all souls) fit better with "liberalism."
The stuff that follows your colon is, well, stuff that follows your colon.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
No. I don't believe I am. I think this article points out the differences and points to why any Christian would not believe that Mormonism is Christianity.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...fferences-between-mormonism-christianity.html
Christianity is not just believing in Jesus. It is the Holy Trinity. And no Mormon believes in that.
No. I don't believe I am. I think this article points out the differences and points to why any Christian would not believe that Mormonism is Christianity.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...fferences-between-mormonism-christianity.html
Christianity is not just believing in Jesus. It is the Holy Trinity. And no Mormon believes in that.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
You know the joke about the Baptists in heaven, right?
You know the joke about the Baptists in heaven, right?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
Whoa, whoa, whoa. There are non-Trinitarians out there, and Trinitarianism itself has a thousand flavors, many of which loathe one another, and/or even ooze over the line into "is that Trinitarian? Heck, I dunno... let's dance!"
I think that is a completely arbitrary dividing line.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. There are non-Trinitarians out there, and Trinitarianism itself has a thousand flavors, many of which loathe one another, and/or even ooze over the line into "is that Trinitarian? Heck, I dunno... let's dance!"
I think that is a completely arbitrary dividing line.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
"So sayest the Scoob."
Yeah, I'm gonna need a little more than that.
"So sayest the Scoob."
Yeah, I'm gonna need a little more than that.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
If you do not believe Christ is God then you are not a Christian. That is the foundation of the Trinity. So, I fail to see how one can argue the other way.
http://www.gotquestions.org/trinitarianism.html
One of many articles that can be found and read.
"So sayest the Scoob."
Yeah, I'm gonna need a little more than that.
If you do not believe Christ is God then you are not a Christian. That is the foundation of the Trinity. So, I fail to see how one can argue the other way.
http://www.gotquestions.org/trinitarianism.html
One of many articles that can be found and read.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
Your syllogism has a famous mistake in it that I can't remember the pretty Latin name for.
1. All C are B.
2. Some B are T.
3. Therefore, all C are T.
Nope nope nope.
Your syllogism has a famous mistake in it that I can't remember the pretty Latin name for.
1. All C are B.
2. Some B are T.
3. Therefore, all C are T.
Nope nope nope.
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
Is a church donation not charity?
So several atheist websites are calling out a recent study that says that 19% of an average church budget goes to actual monetary outreach charity (16% missions and 3% charity). The atheists consider this a sham, but to me its all pretty straightforward. There are standard operating costs of leasing or owning an enormous structure plus all the bills. There is also pastors and management. I think 19% of their budget going to monetary charity is pretty good...corporations earn lots of profit from sales (where churches have none) and a tiny fraction. Also churches generate lots of additional volunteerism in the community. Also, most every church provides a wide variety of support services at the church for anyone - and some mega churches have hundreds of support service programs. All in all, a pretty worthy donation.
Is a church donation not charity?
So several atheist websites are calling out a recent study that says that 19% of an average church budget goes to actual monetary outreach charity (16% missions and 3% charity). The atheists consider this a sham, but to me its all pretty straightforward. There are standard operating costs of leasing or owning an enormous structure plus all the bills. There is also pastors and management. I think 19% of their budget going to monetary charity is pretty good...corporations earn lots of profit from sales (where churches have none) and a tiny fraction. Also churches generate lots of additional volunteerism in the community. Also, most every church provides a wide variety of support services at the church for anyone - and some mega churches have hundreds of support service programs. All in all, a pretty worthy donation.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
Maybe we need a more formal subset of charity called "effective charity," to capture the amount of a donation that actually goes through to the recipient. But even there it would be hopelessly convoluted, for the reasons which you've cited.
I'm not clear on what we're trying to prove? Are you arguing that Christians are better people? Because I'm thinking that's fairly self-serving, to say the least. Are you arguing that Christians produce more good in the world? That's certainly an open question, though I would say that religious conservatives at least had better be giving more to charity to make up the deficit of good they are screwing the indigent out of through their politics.
Maybe we need a more formal subset of charity called "effective charity," to capture the amount of a donation that actually goes through to the recipient. But even there it would be hopelessly convoluted, for the reasons which you've cited.
I'm not clear on what we're trying to prove? Are you arguing that Christians are better people? Because I'm thinking that's fairly self-serving, to say the least. Are you arguing that Christians produce more good in the world? That's certainly an open question, though I would say that religious conservatives at least had better be giving more to charity to make up the deficit of good they are screwing the indigent out of through their politics.
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
But only one of them pays taxes.
Corporations also inspire volunteerism (my company has tons of programs) and donations (United Way campaign, etc). On the flip side, churches definitely have sales (for fundraisers, etc).
But only one of them pays taxes.
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
What if Corporation ABC creates a foundation under 501(c)(3) of the tax code? And contributions by the corporation to the foundation are tax deductible and the foundation itself is exempt from taxation? Conceivably ABC could lower their tax bill significantly by plowing excess profits into the foundation?
ADDENDUM: I've been criticized in other threads about my posting of Pat Buchanan columns. OK, if you don't like Pat, you may also have an aversion of Father George Rutler. I've listened to him on TV and wondered where he wrote his essays. Now I know. This man (priest) is not a shrinking violet that many in Holy Mother Church have turned into.
The article deals with the current state of affairs and the Catholic perspective. Some may read it and ponder its words. Others will read it and ignore it, and others won't read it because it disagrees with their thinking. Your choice.
What if Corporation ABC creates a foundation under 501(c)(3) of the tax code? And contributions by the corporation to the foundation are tax deductible and the foundation itself is exempt from taxation? Conceivably ABC could lower their tax bill significantly by plowing excess profits into the foundation?
ADDENDUM: I've been criticized in other threads about my posting of Pat Buchanan columns. OK, if you don't like Pat, you may also have an aversion of Father George Rutler. I've listened to him on TV and wondered where he wrote his essays. Now I know. This man (priest) is not a shrinking violet that many in Holy Mother Church have turned into.
The article deals with the current state of affairs and the Catholic perspective. Some may read it and ponder its words. Others will read it and ignore it, and others won't read it because it disagrees with their thinking. Your choice.
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Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
Sure - but if they thought they could get away with it (as churches can), I'm pretty sure they'd already be doing it.
St. Clown
Liberal Rebel Scum, apparently
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
Yes. It's living in Wisconsin. I saw that in a movie about God, angels both good and fallen, demons, the Last Scion, and pro(fits), so it must be true.
Re: The Religion Thread: A Believer-Atheist Alliance
From Slate (not exactly Christian)...
Given the scale of American business, it is surprising how small a role corporations play in charitable giving in the U.S., now comprising only a little more than 1 percent of the $1.5 trillion charitable economy.
This number is shockingly small when you think of the entire corporate budget which is how we're judging churches...rather than just profit. But its greatly welcome.
It would be very difficult to track as pastors and staff spend much of their time doing support services and other forms of outreach.
Oh...the point was made a few posts back that contribution to a church is not really charitable in nature. And so I was pointing out that churches create substantial community service value add beyond simply giving 19% of their money away.
From Slate (not exactly Christian)...
Given the scale of American business, it is surprising how small a role corporations play in charitable giving in the U.S., now comprising only a little more than 1 percent of the $1.5 trillion charitable economy.
This number is shockingly small when you think of the entire corporate budget which is how we're judging churches...rather than just profit. But its greatly welcome.
It would be very difficult to track as pastors and staff spend much of their time doing support services and other forms of outreach.
Oh...the point was made a few posts back that contribution to a church is not really charitable in nature. And so I was pointing out that churches create substantial community service value add beyond simply giving 19% of their money away.
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
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