The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

Debate went as I predicted.

I just read some coverage on CNN and I have to say Dems, including Sanders, need to go for the jugular on this one. Sanders was quoted as saying nobody here wants to see people die. Well, Bernie, technically that may be true, but many Goopers are indifferent if people die as long as tax cuts for the rich are enacted. Or better put, prioritize tax cuts for billionaires over life saving health coverage. That point needs to be hammered home and I'm somewhat surprised it wasn't. Dems get too chummy with the opposition in these kind of debates to their own detriment.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

What was the point of the debate if it had zero chance of passing anyways?

 

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

I just read some coverage on CNN and I have to say Dems, including Sanders, need to go for the jugular on this one. Sanders was quoted as saying nobody here wants to see people die. Well, Bernie, technically that may be true, but many Goopers are indifferent if people die as long as tax cuts for the rich are enacted. Or better put, prioritize tax cuts for billionaires over life saving health coverage. That point needs to be hammered home and I'm somewhat surprised it wasn't. Dems get too chummy with the opposition in these kind of debates to their own detriment.

Focus groups always indicate that if you point out that Republican policies are indistinguishable from the behavior of sociopaths that is considered "shrill." One of the rules of right/left debates in the US is that the righty can call the lefty anything they want and it's "strong" and "politically incorrect," but if a lefty actually quantifies the effect of righty policies that's "class war" and "hating America."

The right has the rich, the corporate media, and the benefit of the public's distraction, ignorance, and indifference, as well as deep cultural roots of racism, sexism, and xenophobia. That always gives them the home field. We always have to be ten times smarter.

Luckily, we are.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

What was the point of the debate if it had zero chance of passing anyways?

Well, Amy did point out that there are a number of bipartisan bills that will fix flaws in Obamacare. One could hope that they would pass but I doubt it. What we have to remember is after the Democrats passed Obamacare and then lost control of government Mitch and the House made it a point of never allowing anything to pass that would help the law. And that's still true today. It really needs some tweaking.

Also, the debate was scheduled BEFORE the bill was dead. Bernie pointed out that number one they needed to kill the bill. Number two they needed to pass some fixes. Number three on the list was his single payer bill which Lindsey and Cassidy spent the whole time turning into socialism. Which it's not. But, definitions never did matter to the right.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

There wont be any fixes...the GOP gets nothing out of fixes. They ran on repeal. Fixes is a full on Dem win.

There is no way to frame this as a win for the GOP. The only ones who think so are the 40% who dont pay attention to the truth anyways.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

I don't give a fuk about focus groups and neither should you. That's all media generated sh it of no real value. Of the many pieces of roadkill Trump left in his wake on the way to the GOP nomination, one of them was Frank Lutz and his focus groups. I'm surprised the guy isn't working at the car wash right now.

I admire Bernie for the way he's handling the incremental approach to get where he thinks we need to be. However, Dem voters want somebody who's going to crack heads. Goopers need to be called out and humiliated for their policy proposals. To try to prop them up in the spirit of a mythical bipartisanship that's been dead for 20 or so years is a fool's errand. Dems needed to approach this debate with a good cop/bad cop strategy instead of two good cops.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

Another thing that happened at the debate was interesting. Graham/Cassidy's bill relies on Governor's to "do the right thing" since all the money goes back to them. Bernie I think (and Amy for that matter) reminded them why Obamacare happened in the first place. The number one driver of bankruptcy in the United States was Health Care issues. And before Obamacare the Governor's were not doing anything to solve that problem. That's usually what happens is when one branch or part of Government fails another steps in to fill the void.

The question becomes do we trust the State's now when they couldn't be trusted before? OR, do the Republicans actually come out in favor of Bankruptcy due to a Health Care crisis in your life or family? That's a valid position to take but they seem afraid to phrase that that's what they really believe in.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

I don't give a fuk about focus groups and neither should you. That's all media generated sh it of no real value.

No, I am referring to the test marketing the parties do privately when they're figuring out messaging. The GOP benefits from the Big Lie strategy: the sh-t they support is so lethal merely pointing it out makes you look crazy to the typical uniformed person in the public. You have to find other ways around the GOP's stranglehold on the public debate. Direct attack very rarely works because they hide behind the flag, the troops, the cops, motherhood, apple pie, and all their other PC skirts.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

Another thing that happened at the debate was interesting. Graham/Cassidy's bill relies on Governor's to "do the right thing" since all the money goes back to them. Bernie I think (and Amy for that matter) reminded them why Obamacare happened in the first place. The number one driver of bankruptcy in the United States was Health Care issues. And before Obamacare the Governor's were not doing anything to solve that problem. That's usually what happens is when one branch or part of Government fails another steps in to fill the void.

The question becomes do we trust the State's now when they couldn't be trusted before? OR, do the Republicans actually come out in favor of Bankruptcy due to a Health Care crisis in your life or family? That's a valid position to take but they seem afraid to phrase that that's what they really believe in.

That's why they need to constantly be called out on it.

Look, for one of the few times I can remember in recent years Dems have framed a big issue succinctly so that everyone from the sheep like media to low information voters can understand. GOP is trying to throw millions of people off Medicaid to pay for tax cuts for billionaires, and all of their so-called explanations are bullsh*t. Grind them into the ground on that.

 

[Jimjamesak]

That's why they need to constantly be called out on it.

Look, for one of the few times I can remember in recent years Dems have framed a big issue succinctly so that everyone from the sheep like media to low information voters can understand. GOP is trying to throw millions of people off Medicaid to pay for tax cuts for billionaires, and all of their so-called explanations are bullsh*t. Grind them into the ground on that.

For once I agree with you Rover. Dems need to stand up and fight for once. Quit trying to be the "smart" party and actually call the Republicans out on their BS and keep hammering them on it.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

Kyle Griffin
✔
@kylegriffin1

WASHINGTON (AP) -- GOP sources: Senate Republicans will not vote this week on latest health care bill.

Round 3? 4? over for now

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

Round 3? 4? over for now

It's dead. Turtle Boy pulled it.

At the White House on Tuesday, Mr. Trump expressed his displeasure.

“At some point there will be a repeal and replace, but we’ll see whether or not that point is now or will it be shortly thereafter,” Mr. Trump said. “But we are disappointed in certain so-called Republicans.”

WASHINGTON — Senator Mitch McConnell on Tuesday officially pulled the plug on the latest plan to repeal the Affordable Care Act, telling senators they will not vote on the measure and effectively admitting defeat in the last-gasp drive to fulfill a core promise of President Trump and Republican lawmakers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/26/...-cassidy-trump.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

 

[Handyman]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

Well if America wants it repealed they will give the Senate GOP enough votes to offset the dissent. The Midterms are the referendum...

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

Well if America wants it repealed they will give the Senate GOP enough votes to offset the dissent. The Midterms are the referendum...

I have no doubt they will get the necessary votes. America has clearly wanted Obamacare gone and would rather just have the Affordable Care Act as the only choice.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

Well if America wants it repealed they will give the Senate GOP enough votes to offset the dissent. The Midterms are the referendum...

Agreed, and this is about as good of an issue as the Dems could have hoped for. 5 Dems in tough seats (MT, MO, ND, WV, ID) need to press challengers on their stance on this. Its the one salient issue they can run on.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

I assume you mean Indiana and not Idaho. I'm not sure that there are more than 50,000 Dems in that state.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

I assume you mean Indiana and not Idaho. I'm not sure that there are more than 50,000 Dems in that state.

Good catch! Donnelly in IN.

 

[joecct]

Well if America wants it repealed they will give the Senate GOP enough votes to offset the dissent. The Midterms are the referendum...

If the GOP leadership (oxymoron?) had half a brain (I'm being optimistic here), they would have had replace ready on 1/21/17. Blow the dust off of it, change a few commas and have it ready for the President's signature by Valentine's Day.

In the other hand, if the Machiavellian GOP leadership really hates tD, then this is all part of a plan to get him out in 4 years (or less).

 

[BassAle]

If the GOP leadership (oxymoron?) had half a brain (I'm being optimistic here), they would have had replace ready on 1/21/17. Blow the dust off of it, change a few commas and have it ready for the President's signature by Valentine's Day.

In the other hand, if the Machiavellian GOP leadership really hates tD, then this is all part of a plan to get him out in 4 years (or less).

Some people are on to the fact that the GOP doesn't have a better idea than Obamacare


The way forward is strengthen and improve, not repeal and replace.

Step 1, i would look into allowing anyone 55? or older to buy into Medicare rather than get private insurance. Shifting older people out of the private market should help rates in the exchanges. Baby steps towards single payer.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!

If the GOP leadership (oxymoron?) had half a brain (I'm being optimistic here), they would have had replace ready on 1/21/17. Blow the dust off of it, change a few commas and have it ready for the President's signature by Valentine's Day.

In the other hand, if the Machiavellian GOP leadership really hates tD, then this is all part of a plan to get him out in 4 years (or less).

The ACA took 14 months from Obama taking office to passage.

You really think the R's could have spun together an actual replacement law in a month? They ran for seven years on straight repeal. The fact that doing so would lead to a Democratic landslide by 2020 and single payer never occurred to anyone except John Boehner after the Court didn't kill the ACA.