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The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
- Thread starter joecct
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Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
Outside of Edwards I dont know anyone who even put up a fight against Kerry. As far as I remember it was pretty obvious he was going to win but that was a log time ago now so I may be wrong.
Outside of Edwards I dont know anyone who even put up a fight against Kerry. As far as I remember it was pretty obvious he was going to win but that was a log time ago now so I may be wrong.
Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
Howard Dean had a big, big lead in national polls heading into the Iowa caucus. But their campaign operation in Iowa was a disaster and finishing third there basically ended his campaign. Nobody really challenged Kerry after that.
Howard Dean had a big, big lead in national polls heading into the Iowa caucus. But their campaign operation in Iowa was a disaster and finishing third there basically ended his campaign. Nobody really challenged Kerry after that.
Bob Dole was a nice guy who was the sacrificial lamb against the Clinton buzz saw. The only way Dole could have won was to make Clinton's character the issue. He didn't and got slaughtered.
McCain was 2 elections too late. The country was not a fan of Bush43 and wanted something different. BHO was completely different. Plus, whomever foisted Palin into the #2 spot deserved a big bonus check from the DNC.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
Do you honestly think Dean or Edwards would have won? They essentially had no one who would win that election and that election had a lot of wind blowing the Democrats direction.
Do you honestly think Dean or Edwards would have won? They essentially had no one who would win that election and that election had a lot of wind blowing the Democrats direction.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
Dole was not quite the honorable boy scout he is now portrayed as. He was not above dirty politicking (no successful pol is), and there was an extremely well organized campaign to smear Clinton right from the start.
But you nailed it on the rest. McCain's moment was 2000, but Rove's lies destroyed him in SC.
Dole was not quite the honorable boy scout he is now portrayed as. He was not above dirty politicking (no successful pol is), and there was an extremely well organized campaign to smear Clinton right from the start.
But you nailed it on the rest. McCain's moment was 2000, but Rove's lies destroyed him in SC.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
No...that election was awful. Edwards was the guy I was hoping would have a shot in 2008 until I found out who he really was. I never liked Dean and never for a second wanted him to win the nomination. (that is why I forgot about him
) Kerry seemed like Dukakis to me...
The Dems quit that election before it started.
No...that election was awful. Edwards was the guy I was hoping would have a shot in 2008 until I found out who he really was. I never liked Dean and never for a second wanted him to win the nomination. (that is why I forgot about him
) Kerry seemed like Dukakis to me...The Dems quit that election before it started.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
In '04 the country was still hopped up on War Fever and the RWNM was still new enough that it hadn't been sussed out as garbage by the center-right. For that matter, there was still a center-right -- conservatism hadn't been completely overtaken by wild eyed ratf-ckery.
A very good Dem candidate could have won in '04, but we had none. I don't see any of the nom fighters winning the general.
In '04 the country was still hopped up on War Fever and the RWNM was still new enough that it hadn't been sussed out as garbage by the center-right. For that matter, there was still a center-right -- conservatism hadn't been completely overtaken by wild eyed ratf-ckery.
A very good Dem candidate could have won in '04, but we had none. I don't see any of the nom fighters winning the general.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
But the point is in 2008 there was no challenge for him and Dole was getting the job because no one else really wanted it. This election isnt like that. There is no one who will get the nom just cause the Dems either owe him or Donald wont be beat. If the Dems dont act like Dems they have a good shot.
But the point is in 2008 there was no challenge for him and Dole was getting the job because no one else really wanted it. This election isnt like that. There is no one who will get the nom just cause the Dems either owe him or Donald wont be beat. If the Dems dont act like Dems they have a good shot.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
We didn't act like Dems in 92 or 08. I have hope.
The only "it's his turn" candidate would be Handsome Joe. I like him and he could probably win back a lot of middle of the road, otherwise sensible whites who didn't really believe the RWNM's bullsh-t about Hillary but just didn't want more Clinton Drama. One thing that helps is that Biden's ur problem is athlete's tongue, but compared to Trump he (or anybody) doesn't even register out of the noise.
We didn't act like Dems in 92 or 08. I have hope.
The only "it's his turn" candidate would be Handsome Joe. I like him and he could probably win back a lot of middle of the road, otherwise sensible whites who didn't really believe the RWNM's bullsh-t about Hillary but just didn't want more Clinton Drama. One thing that helps is that Biden's ur problem is athlete's tongue, but compared to Trump he (or anybody) doesn't even register out of the noise.
Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
Really liked Howard Dean in 2004. Put universal care back on the political map and realized before almost all other Dems that the GOP had already gone batchit crazy and Dems had to say so publically. He also had a good sense that Dems collectively were far too long winded and wishy washy when trying to explain any policy position. Unfortunately there was no space for him. He could have used one campaign to get a little more seasoned before running again but by the time 2008 came along really Obama had adopted many of his themes.
Really liked Howard Dean in 2004. Put universal care back on the political map and realized before almost all other Dems that the GOP had already gone batchit crazy and Dems had to say so publically. He also had a good sense that Dems collectively were far too long winded and wishy washy when trying to explain any policy position. Unfortunately there was no space for him. He could have used one campaign to get a little more seasoned before running again but by the time 2008 came along really Obama had adopted many of his themes.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
True to a point. Obama adopted Dean's language but not his policy ambitions. But as always with Obama it is difficult to know what he would have done without a Congressional opposition of terrorists and saboteurs.
In the event, Obama got into bed with the banksters. While Dean may have as well, that wasn't the way he was at least campaigning. (But it wasn't the way Obama campaigned, either.)
True to a point. Obama adopted Dean's language but not his policy ambitions. But as always with Obama it is difficult to know what he would have done without a Congressional opposition of terrorists and saboteurs.
In the event, Obama got into bed with the banksters. While Dean may have as well, that wasn't the way he was at least campaigning. (But it wasn't the way Obama campaigned, either.)
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
As I said before Dean was better as DNC Chair than he was as the candidate. His strategies were crucial and definitely went against the normal Dem BS.
The nice thing is we dont need anyone to be the big gun right now. We have time to figure it out.
As I said before Dean was better as DNC Chair than he was as the candidate. His strategies were crucial and definitely went against the normal Dem BS.
The nice thing is we dont need anyone to be the big gun right now. We have time to figure it out.
You need a DNC focused on the state races, not just DC.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
The DCCC is supposed to take the lead there, but the DNC is sometimes a terrible steward of the party $$$. The Clintons were notorious for not lifting a finger to help anybody who wasn't an FOB (or FOH). Obama, for all his rhetoric, wasn't very good at it either, primarily because his people were so freaking arrogant and never built bridges with the party.
The problem I have heard at the Liberal Conspiracy Meetings is that our state parties are in sh-t ship, and that destroys us at the grassroots, with the problems then cascading all the way up the chain. The GOP for all its many, many, many faults has always approached state & local with brutal business acumen. The Kochs are out there buying local judges and aldermen and county ombudsmen, because they can then put the fix in where the votes are counted and the challenges are adjudicated. Their machine runs on funneling national money to local nutbars who then just blow out their elections, and the ROI is spectacular. For the price of one race of one House Member the GOP buys dozens of state legislators who redraw the lines to create a perpetually safe district.
The only time the GOP is ever smart about money is when they're using it for criminal purposes, but when they do it is a thing of beauty.
The DCCC is supposed to take the lead there, but the DNC is sometimes a terrible steward of the party $$$. The Clintons were notorious for not lifting a finger to help anybody who wasn't an FOB (or FOH). Obama, for all his rhetoric, wasn't very good at it either, primarily because his people were so freaking arrogant and never built bridges with the party.
The problem I have heard at the Liberal Conspiracy Meetings is that our state parties are in sh-t ship, and that destroys us at the grassroots, with the problems then cascading all the way up the chain. The GOP for all its many, many, many faults has always approached state & local with brutal business acumen. The Kochs are out there buying local judges and aldermen and county ombudsmen, because they can then put the fix in where the votes are counted and the challenges are adjudicated. Their machine runs on funneling national money to local nutbars who then just blow out their elections, and the ROI is spectacular. For the price of one race of one House Member the GOP buys dozens of state legislators who redraw the lines to create a perpetually safe district.
The only time the GOP is ever smart about money is when they're using it for criminal purposes, but when they do it is a thing of beauty.
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Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
New York's alright if you like single payer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q_odSgDQeE
New York's alright if you like single payer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q_odSgDQeE
Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
Kep, you do realize if NY enacted gay marriage via the legislative process, a ban on fracking, free college tuition, AND single payer health care over the last 7 years, you're looking at the Dem nominee in 2020, right?
Kep, you do realize if NY enacted gay marriage via the legislative process, a ban on fracking, free college tuition, AND single payer health care over the last 7 years, you're looking at the Dem nominee in 2020, right?
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: The PPACA Thread Part V: Doctor! Doctor! Give me the news!
Do you mean Cuomo?
I mean... I guess? I'm strictly neutral, which is a helluva improvement on where we've been.
Pledge to restore Glass–Steagall and enact a Tobin tax and we'll talk.
Kep, you do realize if NY enacted gay marriage via the legislative process, a ban on fracking, free college tuition, AND single payer health care over the last 7 years, you're looking at the Dem nominee in 2020, right?
Do you mean Cuomo?
I mean... I guess? I'm strictly neutral, which is a helluva improvement on where we've been.
Pledge to restore Glass–Steagall and enact a Tobin tax and we'll talk.
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