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The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

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Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

FlagDUDE08 said:
I'm not referring to "Civil Asset Forfeiture", but rather taxation.
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Murray Rothbard called. He said, "Geez, I never believed anybody would actually fall for that taxation is theft line. I was just using it to meet girls."
 
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Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

joecct said:
Will the cost be a money pit?
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Just ask the Brits or Canadians, and how they have to ration out their healthcare. People wait a very long time to be seen by doctors in those countries, unless the need is life threatening.
 
joecct said:
Will the cost be a money pit?
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Is current insurance a money pit?

Medicare is more efficient than private insurance, and would be cheaper per capita if younger people could be added to its rolls.

If you take Medicare + Medicaid + all other insurance + expenses incurred by the uninsured and compare it to the expenditures in a hypothetical single payer, I am guessing the latter saves a significent percentage in the long run.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

BassAle said:
We currently have the most expensive healthcare in the world. What we have now is a money pit.
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What we have is also the most advanced, with more highly technical care available to more people than anywhere in the world. Comparing per capita costs between nations isn't an apples-to-apples deal.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

I like the state by state approach because you can individualize it to see what works. Since VT tried single payer a few years back, would love to see them for example apply some lessons learned and take the lead on state based public option. Mass could do it I suppose but we already lead the nation in coverage. Also, I think the latest effort here is on efficiencies since expansion is now a done deal.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

St. Clown said:
What we have is also the most advanced, with more highly technical care available to more people than anywhere in the world. Comparing per capita costs between nations isn't an apples-to-apples deal.
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Every time I read statements like this, I can only think of this scene, especially since the movie was just on again last night and is one of my all time favorites.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

St. Clown said:
What we have is also the most advanced, with more highly technical care available to more people than anywhere in the world. Comparing per capita costs between nations isn't an apples-to-apples deal.
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Well, many other countries do have lower infant mortality rates and a longer life expectancy and often spend less than half of what we spend per capita.

What can we learn from other countries? That is not to say we need to copy their model exactly, but many countries have been aggressive at reducing costs and realizing efficiencies. It's time to drop the "America! **** Yeah!" attitude and realize maybe we aren't always the best at everything. Maybe we can learn from the experience of others.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/business/what-sweden-can-tell-us-about-obamacare.html?_r=0
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

St. Clown said:
Just ask the Brits or Canadians, and how they have to ration out their healthcare. People wait a very long time to be seen by doctors in those countries, unless the need is life threatening.
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There are a lot of similarities to our country. The emergency department is filled with people who are told the specialist they want to see is a 2+ month wait.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

BassAle said:
Well, many other countries do have lower infant mortality rates and a longer life expectancy and often spend less than half of what we spend per capita.

What can we learn from other countries?
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To reduce poverty and wealth inequality. Among the developed nations, the more a country embraces laissez faire and leaves its less fortunate citizens to the wolves, the less healthy the country is overall.
 
SJHovey said:
Every time I read statements like this, I can only think of this scene, especially since the movie was just on again last night and is one of my all time favorites.
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Aside from going Bing!, it has to do with more immediate access to Imagi g equipment and useful things. Going Bing! is a plus, though.
 
BassAle said:
Well, many other countries do have lower infant mortality rates and a longer life expectancy and often spend less than half of what we spend per capita.

What can we learn from other countries? That is not to say we need to copy their model exactly, but many countries have been aggressive at reducing costs and realizing efficiencies. It's time to drop the "America! **** Yeah!" attitude and realize maybe we aren't always the best at everything. Maybe we can learn from the experience of others.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/business/what-sweden-can-tell-us-about-obamacare.html?_r=0
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It's hardly that attitude. We bring a lot of expenses upon ourselves- just take trip to Walmart sometime. Obesity jumps up our national costs, as does poverty, which often go together like fat men and pies.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Kepler said:
To reduce poverty and wealth inequality. Among the developed nations, the more a country embraces laissez faire and leaves its less fortunate citizens to the wolves, the less healthy the country is overall.
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So basically success is not something we should attain, because it gets stolen from us and given to the failures. Real way of motivating people to successful there.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

WisconsinWildcard said:
There are a lot of similarities to our country. The emergency department is filled with people who are told the specialist they want to see is a 2+ month wait.
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My wife needs to see a specialist. In our town it is a 3-4 month wait. She's going to drive an hour+ away to see someone sometime this summer rather than wait that long.

My primary care doctor's office called a few weeks ago to say it's time for my yearly checkup. They were booking in November. For a primary care doctor. (who I need to change anyway because I moved and now it takes too long to get to his office.)
 
FlagDUDE08 said:
So basically success is not something we should attain, because it gets stolen from us and given to the failures. Real way of motivating people to successful there.
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Last time I looked there's still plenty of rich, successful people in Europe. Even in places like Sweden.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

BassAle said:
My wife needs to see a specialist. In our town it is a 3-4 month wait. She's going to drive an hour+ away to see someone sometime this summer rather than wait that long.

My primary care doctor's office called a few weeks ago to say it's time for my yearly checkup. They were booking in November. For a primary care doctor. (who I need to change anyway because I moved and now it takes too long to get to his office.)
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I have never experienced anything like that here.
 
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