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The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

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Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

FreshFish said:
A major health insurance company considers whether to withdraw from offering PPACA-Exchange policies at all.
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This is a big deal. Why would UHG consider this? Because its expensive. Why is it expensive? Because it allows for a transparent marketplace in a field where healthcare insurance is a commodity and therefore price is much more important than the marketplace would allow it to be.

This is a big deal. And it shows that public exchanges are working for the public in a big way.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

5mn_Major said:
This is a big deal. Why would UHG consider this? Because its expensive. Why is it expensive? Because it allows for a transparent marketplace in a field where healthcare insurance is a commodity and therefore price is much more important than the marketplace would allow it to be.

This is a big deal. And it shows that public exchanges are working for the public in a big way.
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How is it working for the public if it's forcing companies to offer a product below cost? With the way the system has been created, it's hurting the end consumers as more and more companies remove themselves from the state marketplaces and consumers eventually end up with either a single or no option at all. That doesn't help the consumers at all.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

St. Clown said:
How is it working for the public if it's forcing companies to offer a product below cost? With the way the system has been created, it's hurting the end consumers as more and more companies remove themselves from the state marketplaces and consumers eventually end up with either a single or no option at all. That doesn't help the consumers at all.
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My understanding is that more and more companies are joining the marketplace, not leaving it.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...acare-rates-data-available-analysis/19027939/

As United hasn't made a decision yet, for the 2017 enrollment season, we can only go on the facts....
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

St. Clown said:
How is it working for the public if it's forcing companies to offer a product below cost? With the way the system has been created, it's hurting the end consumers as more and more companies remove themselves from the state marketplaces and consumers eventually end up with either a single or no option at all. That doesn't help the consumers at all.
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Considering the massive massive massive profits and price gouging that was going on before as far as I'm concerned the ****ing insurance companies are getting exactly what they deserve. You reap what you sow. And if UHG wants to bow out, go right ahead, don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out. Soon they'll be singe payer and then UHG will be nothing but a wasteland.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

JF_Gophers said:
Are people actually worried about terrorist attacks? ISIS doesn't crack my top 100 concerns.
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If you live in NYC or DC or you're going to the Super Bowl, you should be a little worried. Nowhere else. While the occasional attack somewhere else is possible, the odds are essentially zero of an attack on any given place.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Kepler said:
If you live in NYC or DC or you're going to the Super Bowl, you should be a little worried. Nowhere else. While the occasional attack somewhere else is possible, the odds are essentially zero of an attack on any given place.
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jeb's brother has kept us safe :D
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

St. Clown said:
How is it working for the public if it's forcing companies to offer a product below cost? With the way the system has been created, it's hurting the end consumers as more and more companies remove themselves from the state marketplaces and consumers eventually end up with either a single or no option at all. That doesn't help the consumers at all.
Click to expand...

Its capitalism. Companies must have costs/benefits that are in line with the marketplace or they go away. Every company out there faces the same issue. In some industries, the product is the same. An airline ticket is often treated like any other. Health insurance service is often the same as any other health insurance service. Historically what's made health insurance market different was that the marketplace was so consumer unfriendly that shoppers had no idea what was the best deal for them. Hence insurance companies could charge anything they want. Not any more. Having said that, UHG will be fine.

Heath insurance industry: welcome to the information age. I hope your ready.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

5mn_Major said:
Its capitalism. Companies must have costs/benefits that are in line with the marketplace or they go away. Every company out there faces the same issue. In some industries, the product is the same. An airline ticket is often treated like any other. Health insurance service is often the same as any other health insurance service. Historically what's made health insurance market different was that the marketplace was so consumer unfriendly that shoppers had no idea what was the best deal for them. Hence insurance companies could charge anything they want. Not any more. Having said that, UHG will be fine.

Heath insurance industry: welcome to the information age. I hope your ready.
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It's not capitalism. If someone is legally compelled to purchase a product or face a legal penalty, it is in no way, shape or form capitalism.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Kepler said:
If you live in NYC or DC or you're going to the Super Bowl, you should be a little worried. Nowhere else. While the occasional attack somewhere else is possible, the odds are essentially zero of an attack on any given place.
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I am not so sure. They seem to like to throw a little diversion terrorism in to the mix to keep the authorities busy in one place while they make a major attempt at terror in another. If they shoot up a soft target like a restaurant on 1st Avenue and get all the attention of the police in that area, it makes it a bit easier to have their larger planned assault over in Penn Station or at the sporting event arena.
I agree with you that at any given time most places are incredibly safe and you are far more likely to get into a car accident on the way to dinner, but personally i would still feel a bit ill at ease in any major city like NY or DC for at least the moment.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

St. Clown said:
It's not capitalism. If someone is legally compelled to purchase a product or face a legal penalty, it is in no way, shape or form capitalism.
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Exchanges allow for capitalism. Be great if all service markets used exchanges.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

I'm not sure I buy UHG leaving the exchanges. 3M pulled this gambit with the pentagon recently. They sent the secretary of defense (?)(the army?) a letter stating that unless they get the big contract they were promised, they would exit the body armor business taking away basically the entire world's supply of ceramic body armor.

I think it's a bargaining tactic of some sort.



Edit: oh, and the army sent a check a month or two after the letter.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

5mn_Major said:
Exchanges allow for capitalism. Be great if all service markets used exchanges.
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No, they don't. You really don't understand what capitalism is. If there's legally enforced participation in a specific market, it's not capitalism. It's that plain, and that simple. You're completely misusing the term.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

St. Clown said:
No, they don't. You really don't understand what capitalism is. If there's legally enforced participation in a specific market, it's not capitalism. It's that plain, and that simple. You're completely misusing the term.
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Like anyone really has a choice whether or not they purchase health care of some sort. Or get it for free. Everyone has to have it. It'd be like not participating in the food market. Or water market.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

ScoobyDoo said:
Like anyone really has a choice whether or not they purchase health care of some sort.
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Until a couple years ago the average participant in the healthcare sector did. Then it was capitalism. Now it's a mixed economy, some choices that are limited by way of compulsory government edict.
 
Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

St. Clown said:
Until a couple years ago the average participant in the healthcare sector did. Then it was capitalism. Now it's a mixed economy, some choices that are limited by way of compulsory government edict.
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Meh. Just another reason to shove all the funding to the general fund. I don't get to opt out of the 90% of our defense spending that's pure corporate graft, either. If you object to it strenuously you can always run as a candidate who will exclude it from the budget and vaya con Dios.

Capitalism fails when it's scoped to activities which take a net loss. Covering poor people's health care takes a net loss. So the choices are, you can be an Objectivist college sophomore and conclude that means poor people should be left to sicken and die, or you can say welp that sucks but it's the price of civilization and cover them. And who covers them? People who can afford it.
 
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Re: The PPACA Thread Part III - Let's have a healthy debate!

Kepler said:
Meh. Just another reason to shove all the funding to the general fund. I don't get to opt out of the 90% of our defense spending that's pure corporate graft, either. If you object to it strenuously you can always run as a candidate who will exclude it from the budget and vaya con Dios.

Capitalism fails when it's scoped to activities which take a net loss. Covering poor people's health care takes a net loss. So the choices are, you can be an Objectivist college sophomore and conclude that means poor people should be left to sicken and die, or you can say welp that sucks but it's the price of civilization and cover them. And who covers them? People who can afford it.
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Yeah, the problem is capitalism really created the healthcare mess we're in.

If it was like food or water or other necessities, you'd just buy it directly from the vendor. If you're poor or can't afford it, you'd look to a government program to provide you with assistance, and hope that society sees it's way clear to adopt such a program. If we'd gone in that direction, I bet the cost of various medical services would look substantially different today.

But somewhere along the line a smart businessman concluded he could make a buck by taking on some of the risk previously borne by individuals, in exchange for a small fee, or "premium". And from there it exploded out of control.
 
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