The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

It depends on how he filed and what type of income. There is a "self employment tax" that you have to pay if you are self employed and not paying a payroll tax and a portion (maybe all?) of that self employment tax goes towards social security.

I don't believe he's self employed. Its almost like he generates all his income from dividends. You don't pay payroll taxes on dividends. You play a capital gains tax and call it a day. Romney might be considered "retired" for federal stats purposes.

 

[ericredaxe]

I don't believe he's self employed. Its almost like he generates all his income from dividends. You don't pay payroll taxes on dividends. You play a capital gains tax and call it a day. Romney might be considered "retired" for federal stats purposes.

Correct... If all his income is dividend income, that would not be subject to social security.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Correct... If all his income is dividend income, that would not be subject to social security.

If your income is over a certain amount-and you have diviend income-isnt that dividend income now subject to a special medicare tax? I am not sure about this so I defer to others who might know more about it.

 

[ericredaxe]

If your income is over a certain amount-and you have diviend income-isnt that dividend income now subject to a special medicare tax? I am not sure about this so I defer to others who might know more about it.

Could be yes... I'd have to defer as well.

 

[mookie1995]

It depends on how he filed and what type of income. There is a "self employment tax" that you have to pay if you are self employed and not paying a payroll tax and a portion (maybe all?) of that self employment tax goes towards social security.

yup. i did that when i was tutoring at bu. i would add in 13% on my forms on the cash income i made (my 6% plus the non-existing match).

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Good article (on point )

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/01/obamacare-no-longer-doomed-will-become-scandal.html

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

If your income is over a certain amount-and you have dividend income-isnt that dividend income now subject to a special medicare tax? I am not sure about this so I defer to others who might know more about it.

Yes. Dividend income and realized capital gains are now subject to an additional 3.8% tax surcharge imposed as part of Obama'care' if your income is above a certain threshold.

DrD, you might learn more about it between now and 4-15-14....

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Newsroom/Net-Investment-Income-Tax-FAQs

The Net Investment Income Tax is imposed by section 1411 of the Internal Revenue Code. The NIIT applies at a rate of 3.8% to certain net investment income of individuals, estates and trusts that have income above the statutory threshold amounts.

The Net Investment Income Tax went into effect on Jan. 1, 2013.

In general, investment income includes, but is not limited to: interest, dividends, capital gains, rental and royalty income, non-qualified annuities, income from businesses involved in trading of financial instruments or commodities and businesses that are passive activities to the taxpayer (within the meaning of section 469).

It's a shame that a basic math test is not required of everyone who wants to run for Congress or work on a Congressional staff.....you could tax "the rich" at 100% and still not have enough money to pay for the progressive agenda.....

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Yes. Dividend income and realized capital gains are now subject to an additional 3.8% tax surcharge imposed as part of Obama'care' if your income is above a certain threshold.

DrD, you might learn more about it between now and 4-15-14....

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Newsroom/Net-Investment-Income-Tax-FAQs




It's a shame that a basic math test is not required of everyone who wants to run for Congress or work on a Congressional staff.....you could tax "the rich" at 100% and still not have enough money to pay for the progressive agenda.....

Actually, a similar tax is already in place for this filing season: Qualified dividends and Capital Gains are now taxed at 20% instead of 15% for certain income threshold levels. 76.2% of a watermelon is still better than 85% of a grape, though.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Can someone post me an Obamacare horror story that hasn't been debunked???

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media...legrams-obamacare-mea-culpa-180798.html?hp=r7

Even Texas papers have been forced to admit they got played. Are there any editors left to fact check stories in journalism anymore?

 

[DrDemento]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Yes. Dividend income and realized capital gains are now subject to an additional 3.8% tax surcharge imposed as part of Obama'care' if your income is above a certain threshold.

DrD, you might learn more about it between now and 4-15-14....

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Newsroom/Net-Investment-Income-Tax-FAQs




It's a shame that a basic math test is not required of everyone who wants to run for Congress or work on a Congressional staff.....you could tax "the rich" at 100% and still not have enough money to pay for the progressive agenda.....

Thanks FF for the post. I had known a bit about this new 'revenue enhancement' but needed more details. Interesting how they just keeping finding new ways to squeeze more juice out of the fruit. Once they reach the point of no more income, inheritance, dividends, to find a tax for-where do they look for money next? BTW this is not a biased post in any way-I strongly suspect that this process would go on no matter who was in the WH and which party controlled either the house or senate. Is the next step just to have you list all assets and levy a percentage asset tax on everything you have?

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Thanks FF for the post. I had known a bit about this new 'revenue enhancement' but needed more details. Interesting how they just keeping finding new ways to squeeze more juice out of the fruit. Once they reach the point of no more income, inheritance, dividends, to find a tax for-where do they look for money next? BTW this is not a biased post in any way-I strongly suspect that this process would go on no matter who was in the WH and which party controlled either the house or senate. Is the next step just to have you list all assets and levy a percentage asset tax on everything you have?

As overall taxation from the feds for the wealthy has come down a lot over the last 30 years, I'm not sure what the problem is.

 

[DrDemento]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

As overall taxation from the feds for the wealthy has come down a lot over the last 30 years, I'm not sure what the problem is.

Are you only thinking about income taxation? Are you also considering other forms of taxation-estate, real estate, sales(whether it be federal or state or local). And of course the increase in 'contributions' to social security, medicare, unemployment insurance, state disability insurance, etc.? Or including the various taxes added to cell phone bills, cable TV bills, utility bills, etc? I've never sat down and calculated what the real effect revenue enhancement rate is today versus when i started earning an income almost 5 decades ago. I would love someone to enlighten me with a comparison of how much of each dollar earned is actually kept over the past 40+ years. Our government has developed a wonderful way of hiding the real percentage of money taken from workers and earners. Speaking for myself and my family only-there is no question that we get to keep far less out of every dollar now that we did years ago.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Are you only thinking about income taxation? Are you also considering other forms of taxation-estate, real estate, sales(whether it be federal or state or local). And of course the increase in 'contributions' to social security, medicare, unemployment insurance, state disability insurance, etc.? Or including the various taxes added to cell phone bills, cable TV bills, utility bills, etc? I've never sat down and calculated what the real effect revenue enhancement rate is today versus when i started earning an income almost 5 decades ago. I would love someone to enlighten me with a comparison of how much of each dollar earned is actually kept over the past 40+ years. Our government has developed a wonderful way of hiding the real percentage of money taken from workers and earners. Speaking for myself and my family only-there is no question that we get to keep far less out of every dollar now that we did years ago.

Are you rich? Do you have kids? Cause if you're not rich and you have kids then you're a leech. In fact they could take all your money and you'd still be a leech. And, even if you're not rich and don't have kids you're probably a leech.

But, if you're rich then there is no question in anyone's mind that you're getting screwed and should find a new accountant and as many tax shelters as you can.

 

[unofan]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Are you only thinking about income taxation? Are you also considering other forms of taxation-estate, real estate, sales(whether it be federal or state or local). And of course the increase in 'contributions' to social security, medicare, unemployment insurance, state disability insurance, etc.? Or including the various taxes added to cell phone bills, cable TV bills, utility bills, etc? I've never sat down and calculated what the real effect revenue enhancement rate is today versus when i started earning an income almost 5 decades ago. I would love someone to enlighten me with a comparison of how much of each dollar earned is actually kept over the past 40+ years. Our government has developed a wonderful way of hiding the real percentage of money taken from workers and earners. Speaking for myself and my family only-there is no question that we get to keep far less out of every dollar now that we did years ago.

Gee, you move up in income as you get older and become a doctor, and you keep less per dollar even as you still make more overall. Funny how progressive taxation works.

That still doesn't change the fact that today's top marginal bracket is dwarfed by those that existed pre-Reagan. Social security contributions have remained pretty steady. Sales taxes are not federal. The federal gas tax hasn't been touched in 20-30 years. taxes on telecomm are primarily state driven. Unemployment/workers' compensation insurance are not taxes. The federal estate tax fluctuates but is generally lower, or at least has a bigger amount exempted today than it did 30 years ago, even accounting for inflation.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Are you rich? Do you have kids? Cause if you're not rich and you have kids then you're a leech. In fact they could take all your money and you'd still be a leech. And, even if you're not rich and don't have kids you're probably a leech.

But, if you're rich then there is no question in anyone's mind that you're getting screwed and should find a new accountant and as many tax shelters as you can.

That must have really stung you, Scooby. Did you truly not have any concept of the amount of government services you were consuming? And the doc probably sent his kid to a private school, and thus not leech from the system like you, Scoobs.

Gee, you move up in income as you get older and become a doctor, and you keep less per dollar even as you still make more overall. Funny how progressive taxation works.

That still doesn't change the fact that today's top marginal bracket is dwarfed by those that existed pre-Reagan. Social security contributions have remained pretty steady. Sales taxes are not federal. The federal gas tax hasn't been touched in 20-30 years. taxes on telecomm are primarily state driven. Unemployment/workers' compensation insurance are not taxes. The federal estate tax fluctuates but is generally lower, or at least has a bigger amount exempted today than it did 30 years ago, even accounting for inflation.

Reading what the Dr. wrote, it had more to do with the "hidden" taxes, less on the income taxes. Though, after Reagan flatten the tax code, the effective rates were very similar to those prior to marginal rate changes because most of the tax deductions were eliminated from the code. Reagan's goal was more to simplify the tax code than to cut the taxes paid, though there was a small reduction for all income brackets.

Federal telecom taxes were increased, but were dubbed as universal coverage "fees" instead, created during Clinton's term. Other than that, you're right in that most of those other taxes are not federal, though there were the rounds of tax increases that came through with the PPACA, as were discussed earlier.

 

[joecct]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Speaking of taxes -- Maryland has a flush tax and a rain tax (supposedly to fund the Chesapeake Bay restoration efforts). With MD, one never knows. Money goes to Annapolis and disappears.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Are you only thinking about income taxation? Are you also considering other forms of taxation-estate, real estate, sales(whether it be federal or state or local). And of course the increase in 'contributions' to social security, medicare, unemployment insurance, state disability insurance, etc.? Or including the various taxes added to cell phone bills, cable TV bills, utility bills, etc? I've never sat down and calculated what the real effect revenue enhancement rate is today versus when i started earning an income almost 5 decades ago. I would love someone to enlighten me with a comparison of how much of each dollar earned is actually kept over the past 40+ years. Our government has developed a wonderful way of hiding the real percentage of money taken from workers and earners. Speaking for myself and my family only-there is no question that we get to keep far less out of every dollar now that we did years ago.

Yes I am and that's something people get confused about. Its not the feds fault if your water and sewer bill go up, nor your property or excise taxes. Speaking strictly about the subject of the Medicare tax, overall taxes on the upper income levels from the feds are down over the last 30 years IIRC.

That's why people need to direct their focus in the right place. If your local officials are incompetent, changing your Senator or Congressman isn't going to get your property taxes any lower in almost all cases.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

That still doesn't change the fact that today's top marginal bracket is dwarfed by those that existed pre-Reagan.

typical myopia, talking merely about the rates while ignoring where the bracket cut-offs hit.

I'm surprised you didn't tell us about how the top bracket in WWII was over 90%. Of course, that only applied to income above $1 million in those dollars, equivalent to over $10 million today.

The top brackets in past years were for very high income levels, above $5 million in today's dollars. Now the top bracket hits at about $400,000.

It's not just the rate, it also is how many people are affected by the rate.


There is a very strong correlation between high tax rates and special interest treatment. Everybody gets a special interest carve out and that engenders tremendous ill will.

Meanwhile, the so-called "poor" receive substantial assistance that is not counted as "income." you get your food, shelther, and healthcare provided to you by others yet that is not counted as "income" in the official statistics. meanwhile, you reference progressive income taxation yet the official statistics inflate the income of high earners by looking at pre-tax income not after-tax income. The system is gamed twice over.

Too much depends upon who you know. the entire notion of equal treatment is derided as quaint and old-fashioned. The only thing that matters these days is who you know. Both parties trade favors to special interests in exchange for votes and ordinary people are hosed repeatedly. it doesn't matter who is in power; it is one group of well-connected constituencies and another group of well-connected constituencies fighting over how to dole out favors. Neither party displays any interest whatsoever in sound economic policies and neither party is ever truthful about anything. it's all politics for them.

for us, hah, get out the vaseline.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

you're right in that most of those other taxes are not federal, though there were the rounds of tax increases that came through with the
PPACA, as were discussed earlier.

it is hard to assess what portion of state and local taxes are used to pay for unfunded federal mandates. if the feds mandate something be done yet provide no funds with which to do it, while that appears to be a state tax, it is actually a hidden federal tax.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

it is hard to assess what portion of state and local taxes are used to pay for unfunded federal mandates. if the feds mandate something be done yet provide no funds with which to do it, while that appears to be a state tax, it is actually a hidden federal tax.

Meh.....perhaps in some limited cases with the state. Not so much with the local yokels. You can't say a state would have saved money if only they could go back to segregated schools, but the feds are forcing an unfunded mandate on us for example.