The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

[joecct]

So, signups for the ACA now over 2M for private plans, 4M for expanded Medicare and another 3M young adults on their parents plan.

Good luck with that repeal drive, knuckledraggers! I'm sure 9M people (and counting) are going to love having their insurance taken away the day that GOP Kingdom on Earth arrives with President Cruz at the helm.

What if the vast majority of the sign ups (but not necessarily enrolled) are the very sick or could not get insurance before crowd?

If the healthy do not sign up, ACA should collapse via fiscal impossibility.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

What if the vast majority of the sign ups (but not necessarily enrolled) are the very sick or could not get insurance before crowd?

If the healthy do not sign up, ACA should collapse via fiscal impossibility.

It would have to be pretty extreme for that to occur. While I'm not exactly a youngster myself, I'm not old enough to have no faith in the people in their 20's. They want the same things the rest of us do, good jobs, decent medical coverage, etc. IMHO, the logic that young people will pay the fine instead of getting insurance is the same mindset that believed young people wouldn't vote in the 2012 election. Essentually its painting the largest generation of people in this country (the Millenials) as having little interest in civic affairs.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

It would have to be pretty extreme for that to occur. While I'm not exactly a youngster myself, I'm not old enough to have no faith in the people in their 20's. They want the same things the rest of us do, good jobs, decent medical coverage, etc. IMHO, the logic that young people will pay the fine instead of getting insurance is the same mindset that believed young people wouldn't vote in the 2012 election. Essentually its painting the largest generation of people in this country (the Millenials) as having little interest in civic affairs.

Many youngsters these days can't find a decent job, the way that many of us could right out of college. Since they're on their own, in many regards, they'll put all of their cash into rent, food, car, and entertainment, and not necessarily in that order. $95/year in fines is still cheaper than what a lot of them would see even with subsidized premiums. Since people under 30 often think of themselves as invulnerable, they're most likely to pay the small fine. Once that fine increases, then you're going to see more of them get on board, but not until then. And depending upon how much premiums go up in the next few years, they may continue to do so even in the future.

We just don't know how that's going to work out, but we do know that they're not enrolling in plans like the pols that sold us (themselves?) this law claimed they would.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Many youngsters these days can't find a decent job, the way that many of us could right out of college. Since they're on their own, in many regards, they'll put all of their cash into rent, food, car, and entertainment, and not necessarily in that order. $95/year in fines is still cheaper than what a lot of them would see even with subsidized premiums. Since people under 30 often think of themselves as invulnerable, they're most likely to pay the small fine. Once that fine increases, then you're going to see more of them get on board, but not until then. And depending upon how much premiums go up in the next few years, they may continue to do so even in the future.

We just don't know how that's going to work out, but we do know that they're not enrolling in plans like the pols that sold us (themselves?) this law claimed they would.

Lotta cliches in that post. I was under 30 once, and never considered myself invulnerable, especially if you've even been in a car accident, had the flu, got hurt playing sports, etc. As arrogant as I am, I don't consider my 20's self any smarter than the 20 year olds of today. You sound like you want people to forgo insurance which if you put aside partisanship is pretty odd.

My prediction? The youngstas will show up for insurance just like anybody else would.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Lotta cliches in that post. I was under 30 once, and never considered myself invulnerable, especially if you've even been in a car accident, had the flu, got hurt playing sports, etc. As arrogant as I am, I don't consider my 20's self any smarter than the 20 year olds of today. You sound like you want people to forgo insurance which if you put aside partisanship is pretty odd.

My prediction? The youngstas will show up for insurance just like anybody else would.

I'm not advocating one way or the other at this point. The law is here, and should these kids refuse to sign up for coverage, it will likely have adverse impacts on my insurance premiums. I am, however, pointing out that we know the kids are signing up, based upon reports that have been given. And while I was more risk averse than most people in their 20's, I know that I wasn't like the majority of people at that age. Research over the years shows us that people don't normally plan for the future until they have children. People are putting off marriage and children until later and later, lending more credence to the thought that people in their 20's will not sign up for coverage.

Most of these people will follow their pocketbooks, as most people in life do. The limited capacity for many young people to plan long-term events in their personal lives will lead to most of these people not enrolling in a plan.

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

It would have to be pretty extreme for that to occur. While I'm not exactly a youngster myself, I'm not old enough to have no faith in the people in their 20's. They want the same things the rest of us do, good jobs, decent medical coverage, etc. IMHO, the logic that young people will pay the fine instead of getting insurance is the same mindset that believed young people wouldn't vote in the 2012 election. Essentually its painting the largest generation of people in this country (the Millenials) as having little interest in civic affairs.

I must be. d*m* kids... and stay off my lawn.

I can't say I was concerned about medical coverage in my 20s until I got married. So I'm not sure how much I buy into that. Of course there will be some but as a whole I'm not convinced you can say that.

 

[Rover]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

I must be. d*m* kids... and stay off my lawn.

I can't say I was concerned about medical coverage in my 20s until I got married. So I'm not sure how much I buy into that. Of course there will be some but as a whole I'm not convinced you can say that.

Look if you're saying I was smarter in my 20's than the average person you'll get no argument from me!

However, it would be worthwhile to remember that every generation thinks the ones that came after them are candy***es. So, I've found people in their 50's and 60's have quite a bit of disdain and/or skepticism about the young adults in this country. I don't (although to be fair I'm much younger than 50 ). In fact, it was the basic premise of the Romney campaign in 2012 - that these people couldn't be bothered to vote like they did in 2008. Must have been a shock when they did indeed show up as roughly the same % of the overall voting population.

So, have a little faith in those candy***es. They might not be so bad after all, even if they do have terrible taste in music.

 

[Tiggsy]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Look if you're saying I was smarter in my 20's than the average person you'll get no argument from me!

However, it would be worthwhile to remember that every generation thinks the ones that came after them are candy***es. So, I've found people in their 50's and 60's have quite a bit of disdain and/or skepticism about the young adults in this country. I don't (although to be fair I'm much younger than 50 ). In fact, it was the basic premise of the Romney campaign in 2012 - that these people couldn't be bothered to vote like they did in 2008. Must have been a shock when they did indeed show up as roughly the same % of the overall voting population.

So, have a little faith in those candy***es. They might not be so bad after all, even if they do have terrible taste in music.

Not to burst your bubble... well maybe a little... but I don't think it has anything to do with being smarter. Just that your prioirites are different. I still don't think I need the insurance policy I have for myself but I got it to cover my entire family. I'd be more than happy with the absolute cheapest policy I can find and the only reason I got one in the first place is because it was offered through my first employer out of college. It's your own choice and it's up to you to deal with the consequences if there are any. Don't expect anyone to bail you out because of your own choices or if there was bad luck involved. I believe I saved quite a bit of money with a cheap policy that I hardly ever used. Maybe it helped pay off my first car which, looking back now, was more important to me at the time so I don't regret that decision at all.

 

[Priceless]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

I assume all these people that are invulnerable and choose not to get health insurance will do the right thing and forgo medical care if they, for example, wake up one morning and find they have a massive tumor in their head and will die without treatment.

Right?

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

I assume all these people that are invulnerable and choose not to get health insurance will do the right thing and forgo medical care if they, for example, wake up one morning and find they have a massive tumor in their head and will die without treatment.

Right?

Or we could place medical debt into the same category as student loan debt, not allow people to claim bankruptcy in order to clear it out after these people do get the care for which they've not insured themselves. Insurance's greatest bargaining chip is wiped away with the combination of guaranteed coverage and the ability to declare bankruptcy without it impacting insurance premium rates. So you change the status of that debt, make having health insurance that much of a bigger carrot tied to the stick. Make there be real consequences for opting out of the system.

 

[walrus]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

I assume all these people that are invulnerable and choose not to get health insurance will do the right thing and forgo medical care if they, for example, wake up one morning and find they have a massive tumor in their head and will die without treatment.

Right?

No pre existing conditions issues, just go sign up and everything is covered

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

No pre existing conditions issues, just go sign up and everything is covered

Why? There's nothing preventing me from walking in to the ER and getting what I need. And, hell, I can just declare bankruptcy and I'm all good

 

[joecct]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

No pre existing conditions issues, just go sign up and everything is covered

Assuming you're inside the sign-up window (whatever that is - it seems to be shifting). Otherwise I THINK you need a significant event. But if you can hang on until the start of the new period and effective date, you MAY be OK.

Insurance is legalized gambling. I pay $4K a year to make sure that I don't get hammered if something really bad (aka Priceless) happens. If I was Bill Gates, maybe I pay the tax since I can buy the hospital where I am undergoing treatment.

I know that - .- -.-- did not have health insurance when he was being treated for the cancer that ultimately took his life.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Why? There's nothing preventing me from walking in to the ER and getting what I need. And, hell, I can just declare bankruptcy and I'm all good

You make it sound like there should be no repercussions for choosing to not take actions required within the framework of this all-benevolent <strike>dictate</strike> law with its <strike>fine</strike> tax implications..

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

You make it sound like there should be no repercussions for choosing to not take actions required within the framework of this all-benevolent <strike>dictate</strike> law with its <strike>fine</strike> tax implications..

What do I know? As you've stated numerous times I'm just a leech anyway. If anything I'm a leech and stupid because I actually carry insurance.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

What do I know? As you've stated numerous times I'm just a leech anyway. If anything I'm a leech and stupid because I actually carry insurance.

You're still smarting from finding out that you receive more in direct benefits (how many kids for K-12 education at $9,000-13,000 annual cost?) than you'll pay in taxes?

As for insurance, we're responsible not dupes, for carrying our own insurance. We're all dupes for allowing people to not carry health insurance and then get out of paying the hospital for their mandated care by declaring bankruptcy, thus shifting higher costs back to us.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

You're still smarting from finding out that you receive more in direct benefits (how many kids for K-12 education at $9,000-13,000 annual cost?) than you'll pay in taxes?

As for insurance, we're responsible not dupes, for carrying our own insurance. We're all dupes for allowing people to not carry health insurance and then get out of paying the hospital for their mandated care by declaring bankruptcy, thus shifting higher costs back to us.

No, we're dupes for paying taxes and paying insurance. Something the rich as a percentage of their overall income does much less of.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

No, we're dupes for paying taxes and paying insurance. Something the rich as a percentage of their overall income does much less of.

Bull sh**. When Obama and Romney released their taxes for the 2012 campaign, they paid an effective rate of 14.8% for Romney, and the President was in the 14% range, too, with both of them earning in the 8-digit range for incomes. For the standard taxpayers such as you or me, we pay an average effective tax rate of roughly 11.7%, per the IRS's figures.

Here's a link to the Tax Foundation (conservative group) that includes a table using the IRS's metadata for filings in the 2009 tax year. Those tax rates will be roughly the same in 2011, which is when the candidates were releasing their figures.
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/romneys-tax-returns-and-effective-tax-rates-rich

 

[Scott W]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Bull sh**. When Obama and Romney released their taxes for the 2012 campaign, they paid an effective rate of 14.8% for Romney, and the President was in the 14% range, too, with both of them earning in the 8-digit range for incomes. For the standard taxpayers such as you or me, we pay an average effective tax rate of roughly 11.7%, per the IRS's figures.

Here's a link to the Tax Foundation (conservative group) that includes a table using the IRS's metadata for filings in the 2009 tax year. Those tax rates will be roughly the same in 2011, which is when the candidates were releasing their figures.
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/romneys-tax-returns-and-effective-tax-rates-rich

Never bring facts into an argument with Scooby, he will refuse to acknowledge them.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The PPACA Implementation Phase II - Love it or Lose it!

Bull sh**. When Obama and Romney released their taxes for the 2012 campaign, they paid an effective rate of 14.8% for Romney, and the President was in the 14% range, too, with both of them earning in the 8-digit range for incomes. For the standard taxpayers such as you or me, we pay an average effective tax rate of roughly 11.7%, per the IRS's figures.

Here's a link to the Tax Foundation (conservative group) that includes a table using the IRS's metadata for filings in the 2009 tax year. Those tax rates will be roughly the same in 2011, which is when the candidates were releasing their figures.
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/romneys-tax-returns-and-effective-tax-rates-rich

None of that takes into account payroll taxes or insurance.