The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

Were our taxes then spent in a reasonable and responsible manner, lots of people would agree with you. It is not the taxation per se that bothers me, it is how the money is squandered on so many pork barrel projects, like the John Murtha Airport that has three flights per week, and on and on and on. We do not get the value we deserve from the spending, too much of it goes to prop up legislators' re-election campaigns or to fund duplicate services (there are 48 different jobs programs, for example. 15 Cabinet departments. So much redundancy across the board. )

That's stuff is bad, no doubt, but most of that is noise compared to the big ticket items in the federal budget, which take most of the money. The numbers can probably be sliced a little differently depending on assumptions, but these are at least roughly representative:
Health Care - 28%
Pensions - 24%
Defense - 19%
Welfare - 10%
Interest - 10%

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_budget_detail_fy13bs12015n

That's 91 percent of federal spending on those five items. Everything else put together is small potatoes, though again I agree we shouldn't waste any federal dollars on pork barrel, etc. But eliminating that stuff wouldn't fundamentally or even scratch the surface of addressing the federal budget problems we face.

 

[unofan]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

Yes, my mother, my aunts and uncles, just about every relative over age 75, all their friends and neighbors, quite a few people are in that position. For most retired people, if I am not mistaken, 85% of Social Security is not taxable, so that puts a real lot of people in the lowest bracket once you factor in the standard deduction and the personal exemption (taxable income ~ $25,000 or less), especially with interest rates as low as they are today.

Social Security income is non-waged income, which the good doctor included in his taxation list.

Social security is taxable if the sum of your other income plus half your SS benefits is over 25k as a single filer or 32k as a joint filer. There's a higher threshold that increases the taxes on SS income (which is where the 85% comes into play. At that point, 85 percent off your additional benefits are subject to taxation).

I'll be honest, I don't know how many old people are below that threshold. But as of 2011, the average person in the bottom quintile made 25k in income, of which 16k was labeled "market income," and would include wages, dividends, interest, capital gains, etc.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

Social security is taxable if the sum of your other income plus half your SS benefits is over 25k as a single filer or 32k as a joint filer. There's a higher threshold that increases the taxes on SS income (which is where the 85% comes into play. At that point, 85 percent off your additional benefits are subject to taxation).

I'll be honest, I don't know how many old people are below that threshold. But as of 2011, the average person in the bottom quintile made 25k in income, of which 16k was labeled "market income," and would include wages, dividends, interest, capital gains, etc.

unofan, you're looking at it from the perception of today's income tax brackets. I was operating within the realm of busterman's two-tiered tax sytem proposal/idea. I already knew that SS income has taxable components to it as I'd been filing my mother's taxes for her for quite some time prior to her passing.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

Were our taxes then spent in a reasonable and responsible manner, lots of people would agree with you. It is not the taxation per se that bothers me, it is how the money is squandered on so many pork barrel projects, like the John Murtha Airport that has three flights per week, and on and on and on. We do not get the value we deserve from the spending, too much of it goes to prop up legislators' re-election campaigns or to fund duplicate services (there are 48 different jobs programs, for example. 15 Cabinet departments. So much redundancy across the board. )

Bingo.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

It's a fair assumption that most people at the bottom are in waged jobs.

I don't know many people living on interest or dividends in the bottom quintiles, do you?

My uncle gives his regards.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

Bingo.

That's on us. If we didn't re-elect these criminals at north of 95%, we wouldn't be saddled with that stuff.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

That's on us. If we didn't re-elect these criminals at north of 95%, we wouldn't be saddled with that stuff.

Assuming we actually elected them. Ballots are not secret, as they document whose ballot is whose (we saw this when a police department decided to sue every citizen that voted to limit their power), and it is a computer that counts the votes (at least in this state, since they got rid of the mechanical voting machines), meaning it is able to be manipulated.

It's a bit curious as to how they can be so bad, yet remain in power for so long...

 

[unofan]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

unofan, you're looking at it from the perception of today's income tax brackets. I was operating within the realm of busterman's two-tiered tax sytem proposal/idea. I already knew that SS income has taxable components to it as I'd been filing my mother's taxes for her for quite some time prior to her passing.

But, especially as it pertains to my point which is that most poor people are in waged jobs, I stand by that as a fair assumption.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

Assuming we actually elected them. Ballots are not secret, as they document whose ballot is whose (we saw this when a police department decided to sue every citizen that voted to limit their power), and it is a computer that counts the votes (at least in this state, since they got rid of the mechanical voting machines), meaning it is able to be manipulated.

It's a bit curious as to how they can be so bad, yet remain in power for so long...

I like a good conspiracy as much as the next guy, but the exit polls agree with the ballot results -- we actually are re-electing them. Either elections are decided by lofo voters who are manipulated by advertising or our guys are actually delivering what we want, and it's a tragedy of the commons.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

Either elections are decided by lofo voters who are manipulated by advertising or our guys are actually delivering what we want, and it's a tragedy of the commons.

It's both - the boys and girls in Congress give the lofo majority what they want. And it's your Congresshuman that's the problem, never mine.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

It's both - the boys and girls in Congress give the lofo majority what they want. And it's your Congresshuman that's the problem, never mine.

Only gonna get worse as voters self-segregate.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

I like a good conspiracy as much as the next guy, but the exit polls agree with the ballot results -- we actually are re-electing them. Either elections are decided by lofo voters who are manipulated by advertising or our guys are actually delivering what we want, and it's a tragedy of the commons.

I'd only give #2 a partial. Ever notice how the politicians change their tone or cover up bad things (like Benghazi) when an election is upcoming? They're preying on the sheeple with a short term memory.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

unofan, you're looking at it from the perception of today's income tax brackets. I was operating within the realm of busterman's two-tiered tax sytem proposal/idea. I already knew that SS income has taxable components to it as I'd been filing my mother's taxes for her for quite some time prior to her passing.

I'm shocked no one's going after that system for having only two tiers, because that's exactly what the "evil Reagan" did.

 

[joecct]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

I still say it is high time to tax the religious institutions...

Actually, I'd make sure that not $1 of public money is directed at a religious institution. The RI compromises itself when it applies (and gets) grants from the State.

 

[Rover]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

I'm shocked no one's going after that system for having only two tiers, because that's exactly what the "evil Reagan" did.

For the record Flaggy, I believe the problem with Reagan was that he was senile, not evil....

 

[joecct]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

I wasn't very clear on my idea. Let me try and elaborate.

All influx of $ is to be considered income (wages, interest, gifts, gambling, stolen, SS, whatever)
Anyone with income files a return.
An acceptable amount to live on is set as a standard deduction (say 3-4x poverty level)
Net income is taxed at a flat rate
Simple and equitable.

I also believe JFK had it right when he said ask not what you country can do for you. I think our citizens need to be invested in the process and paying taxes is part of that. I would take this policy one step further in requiring those who do not pay any taxes to provide community service. Nothing big. 1-2 days/fiscal year. Opt not to do it, that's fine, you just lose your franchise for that year. I'm sure some will feel that this somehow makes me a bigot or a fascist but maybe if we required a little responsibility, we might get a little better Gov't. (Yea, who am I trying to kid?)

It'll never happen but I can dream

I've been saying pretty much the same thing for years. Glad we agree.

The "underground" (cash) economy is estimated to be almost as large as the "taxed" economy. Grabbing that section of the economy may produce unwanted effects. What if, to get at that sector, we taxed consumption with a basic exemption for everyone (food, clothing, utilities)???????

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

I've been saying pretty much the same thing for years. Glad we agree.

The "underground" (cash) economy is estimated to be almost as large as the "taxed" economy. Grabbing that section of the economy may produce unwanted effects. What if, to get at that sector, we taxed consumption with a basic exemption for everyone (food, clothing, utilities)???????

FairTax, eh? There'd be another loophole, or the same loophole would exist...

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

For the record Flaggy, I believe the problem with Reagan was that he was senile, not evil....

He may not have been, but he was surrounded by more crooks than Capone.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

He may not have been, but he was surrounded by more crooks than Capone.

Reagan was the classic Useful Idiot. He was the happy, vacuous public face of a gang of thieves. The man himself was simply always an actor, mouthing lines written by somebody else.

 

[joecct]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS Part VI - Roberts rules disorder

Not this forum's usual read, but a discussion on Indiana's Religious Freedom Statute.