The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

[FreshFish]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

What do I know, anyway? Let's hear from the experts!

When it comes to tackling complicated legal issues, one would be hard-pressed to conjure a less likely partnership than Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz and Baylor University President Ken Starr.

...

In a delightful back-and-forth punctuated by yarns and anecdotes, the two legal luminaries affirmed at least two points of agreement: (1) separation of church and state is good for religion; (2) corporations are people and people are corporations and, therefore, Hobby Lobby should be permitted an exemption from the contraceptive mandate imposed by the Affordable Care Act (ACA).
[emphasis apparently in original though my browser is acting weird...]

So all you brainy ones can argue with those two now and leave me out if it.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

I totally disagree on the corporations are people part of the argument. And, so do many actual legal scholars for that matter.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

But I bet a lot of these same business owners feel just fine about their tax dollars (or insurance) paying for boner pills!

How many abortions are caused by viagra, cialis, et al? I missed that statistic somewhere.

Also completely omitted from most news coverage is that there are 20 different birth control devices, etc. mandated under PPACA and Hobby Lobby objects only to 4 of them. So they are okay with the other 16. It truly is only the abortifacients to which they object; there is no objection to those drugs and devices that inhibit contraception from the outset.

of course, a moderate, middle of the road observation suits no one, we must sensationalize! The outrage! the horror! why, i am so apoplectic i can hardly type! spittle is spraying all over my computer screen!

 

[jerphisch]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

I'm always happy to try to help those around me. What may I help you with my fellow poster?

Let's look at this from the opposite point of view. Hobby Lobby doesn't need an exemption from the law, they just want one. So why is a corporate want good while an individuals want is bad?

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Let's look at this from the opposite point of view. Hobby Lobby doesn't need an exemption from the law, they just want one. So why is a corporate want good while an individuals want is bad?

Your posting is unresponsive to my desire to assist you. How may I assist you?

 

[Priceless]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

How many abortions are caused by viagra, cialis, et al? I missed that statistic somewhere.

How many abortions are caused by birth control?

And while we're on the topic, what other legal health procedures are businesses going to find objectionable?

 

[jerphisch]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

How many abortions are caused by birth control?

And while we're on the topic, what other legal health procedures are businesses going to find objectionable?

Providing any coverage at all to teh gays!

 

[SJHovey]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Surprised no discussion on this decision. http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/26/us/northwestern-football-union/index.html?c=us

 

[joecct]

How many abortions are caused by birth control?

And while we're on the topic, what other legal health procedures are businesses going to find objectionable?

Does one define the RU-486 pill as birth control or an abortion causing drug?

 

[unofan]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

How many abortions are caused by viagra, cialis, et al? I missed that statistic somewhere.
... and Hobby Lobby objects only to 4 of them. So they are okay with the other 16.

Of course, as everyone else but you acknowledges, there is somewhere between 50-100 other companies suing over this issue, and Hobby Lobby acknowledges that some of the others object to all forms of birth control even if they themselves do not. So good try, but there is no chance of this ruling being limited in the way you're implying.

Likewise, devout Catholics believe any sex, whether marital or extra-marital, for purposes of anything other than creating offspring is a sin. So a Catholic business should be objecting to paying for anything that promotes sex for pleasure, of which Viagara for a married post-menopausal couple would clearly qualify. So why shouldn't that be considered here. This isn't an abortion case, it's a corporate religion case.

 

[unofan]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Does one define the RU-486 pill as birth control or an abortion causing drug?

Why don't you tell us?

Too scared to post anything other than a question?

Why am I even asking?

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

How many abortions are caused by birth control?

quite a few people define abortion as a method of birth control. under that definition, millions.

what other legal health procedures are businesses going to find objectionable?

again, not sure if you are deliberately missing the point merely to be cute / annoying, it is not the procedure that is found objectionable, it is being forced to pay for it that is the objection. Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood also have the option to drop health insurance entirely, but they don't want to do that, and they do not object to 16 of the 20 methods of contraception (contra - conception) that the law mandates. It is only the 4 that cause abortions that they don't want to pay for. They are not objecting to the employees paying for it with their own money.

It is legal for me to express my free speech rights by supporting a particular candidate, but my employer would object very strongly if I were to use company supplies, telephone, and time to exercise that right.

 

[Rover]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

quite a few people define abortion as a method of birth control. under that definition, millions.

Oh really, Fishy? Do you have anything to back this up? I'm real curious who these "millions" are.

 

[unofan]

, it is not the procedure that is found objectionable, it is being forced to pay for it that is the objection. Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood also have the option to drop health insurance entirely, but they don't want to do that, and they do not object to 16 of the 20 methods of contraception (contra - conception) that the law mandates. It is only the 4 that cause abortions that they don't want to pay for. They are not objecting to the employees paying for it with their own money.

It is legal for me to express my free speech rights by supporting a particular candidate, but my employer would object very strongly if I were to use company supplies, telephone, and time to exercise that right.

I object to being forced to pay employees more than the cost of two fish and a loaf of bread per week. Should I be allowed to ignore minimum wage laws?

This isn't an abortion case. Stop pretending that it is.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Oh really, Fishy? Do you have anything to back this up? I'm real curious who these "millions" are.

Those who believe life begins at conception, which is a good number of people. So the millions are those who began life at conception and had that life extinguished very soon thereafter. But, you're a smart guy, so I'm sure you knew that. But, hey, we're a nation that's tilting away from a culture valuing life in a variety of ways, so folks who believe this are unlikely to get much relief from the government.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

if Hobby Lobby wins Corporate Personhood is the defacto standard. It basically has been since Citizens United but at least that was only a first amendment case. This will expand it to everything.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

if Hobby Lobby wins Corporate Personhood is the defacto standard. It basically has been since Citizens United but at least that was only a first amendment case. This will expand it to everything.

Yep, and I'll be first in line to set me up a new religion and then a new corporation that follows those beliefs. I haven't quite worked out exactly what the beliefs will be yet, but I'm pretty sure they will include the rights to taxpayer funded single malt Scotch and Cuban cigars. Anyone who wants to joint, sign your name on a $100 bill...

 

[Priceless]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Anyone who wants to joint, sign your name on a $100 bill...

Was that a typo, or one of your corporation's beliefs? Taxpayer funded marijuana...

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Was that a typo, or one of your corporation's beliefs? Taxpayer funded marijuana...

I'm sure that's already provided for somewhere in Obamacare. We just have to find it somewhere in the 2000+ pages.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Do you have anything to back this up? I'm real curious who these "millions" are.

Are you really that incompetent when it comes to performing an internet search?

Multiple sources report that there are around 1 million abortions per year in the US. Since you are such a [redacted] about it, I'll let you find your own links.


Hint: open a search engine, and then type "how many abortions in US" and see what you get. The results run the spectrum of right-to-life sites to Centers for Disease Control to news sites to Planned Parenthood. the numbers are fairly consistent across the board.