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The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

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Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

joecct said:
Logic (?) would then dictate that Prop 8 is constitutional??
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In reading the opinion of the court, given Amendment V was cited as being violated, specifically the "due process" clause, Prop 8 will likely be reversed.

One thing I do find interesting, though, is Scalia's dissent. The actions currently being taken by the sue-happy people of this country has, in effect, created an oligarchy where 9 rule.
 
joecct said:
Which means that the California Courts overturned the ballot box????
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Federal court, but yes. Essentially they're saying that once California stopped defending the law, the backers of prop 8 could not step into the state's shoes at the appellate level.

Prop 8 is kicked on standing. Roberts plus scalia, breyer, Kagan, and ginsburg.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Hey, that's what you get from a relatively liberal court.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

And ducking Prop 8 rewards the horrible precedent of governments not defending standing laws when it's not politically expedient for them to do so. Everyone loses from such lawless conduct.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

FlagDUDE08 said:
Patience is a virtue, Bob. They can't procreate, as it is a physical impossibility.
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Not the "natural" way. But with artificial insemination and other means, lesbians can conceive.

Now, what if the great state of Utah says polygamy is OK? Will it be recognized in the other 49 states + DC?
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

joecct said:
Not the "natural" way. But with artificial insemination and other means, lesbians can conceive.

Now, what if the great state of Utah says polygamy is OK? Will it be recognized in the other 49 states + DC?
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If one alternative to traditional marriage is ok, others have to be also. Or at least is the case if logic is applied, which I won't assume. Warren Jeffs will be smiling when he hears about this.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

FlagDUDE08 said:
Patience is a virtue, Bob. They can't procreate, as it is a physical impossibility.
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So your theory is that gay parents would have gay kids, except that they can't procreate? And the corrolary would be that straight parents would have straight kids. So where did today's gay people come from??? Methinks you're going to be waiting a long, long, long time for heteros to stop producing gays...
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

joecct said:
Now, what if the great state of Utah says polygamy is OK? Will it be recognized in the other 49 states + DC?
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I think you've misunderstood the decisions. Gay marriage does not have to be recognized by the other states, just that if a state does recognize gay marriage, the federal laws won't discriminate against them. For example, if State A allows gay marriage, a gay married couple could now file a married filing jointly tax return.

My guess is there is going to be a lot of overreaction to the cases today when they really didn't do much.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

Fighting Sioux 23 said:
I think you've misunderstood the decisions. Gay marriage does not have to be recognized by the other states, just that if a state does recognize gay marriage, the federal laws won't discriminate against them. For example, if State A allows gay marriage, a gay married couple could now file a married filing jointly tax return.

My guess is there is going to be a lot of overreaction to the cases today when they really didn't do much.
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But what if that couple then moves to state B which doesn't allow gay marriage? Do they file a joint federal return but two single returns in state B? Seems rather problematic. Several of the states I've lived in have items on the form that you just transfer over from your federal 1040 - they'd have to modify their forms (and probably accompanying tax regulations) to allow people to calculate their state tax directly without relying on the federal calculations.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

LynahFan said:
But what if that couple then moves to state B which doesn't allow gay marriage? Do they file a joint federal return but two single returns in state B?
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I would think that is a distinct possibility, but not necessarily a must, as the court did not rule on section 2 of DOMA. It probably comes down to the decision of each individual state to accept other states same-sex marriage licences or not regardless of the states own same-sex marriages or lack thereof.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

LynahFan said:
But what if that couple then moves to state B which doesn't allow gay marriage? Do they file a joint federal return but two single returns in state B? Seems rather problematic. Several of the states I've lived in have items on the form that you just transfer over from your federal 1040 - they'd have to modify their forms (and probably accompanying tax regulations) to allow people to calculate their state tax directly without relying on the federal calculations.
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The Court didn't really decide that today, but I would be inclined to read the opinion as supporting Section 2 of DOMA, which gives States the right to respect gay marriage from other states. That question though is up for argument, and will probably be another challenge down the line.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS IV: Gays, Guns, and Immigrants, OH MY!

LynahFan said:
So your theory is that gay parents would have gay kids, except that they can't procreate? And the corrolary would be that straight parents would have straight kids. So where did today's gay people come from??? Methinks you're going to be waiting a long, long, long time for heteros to stop producing gays...
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When did I say that?! Wow, did you miss the mark.

The biggest argument that I hear about homosexuality, and this is purely from an objective standpoint, is that homosexual couples will either raise or have significant influence upon children and, in doing so, teach them the "deviant practices" of homosexuality. This does not mean that a certain sexual orientation births a certain sexual orientation. In fact, those that argue against homosexuality I have found, in many cases, believe that it is not something that comes from birth, but is rather something learned. After all, why else would there be "pray the gay away" retreats that attempt to cleanse the "sinner" of such witchcraft? The only thing that I wrote to Bob was playing off of this belief that if you protect children from these "heathens", they will soon be gone because they cannot create and teach "heathens" of their own, and the problem will evaporate.
 
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