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The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

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Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

ScottM said:
Shh. It's just gas. :eek: ;)
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Specifically at 1:55
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Bob Gray said:
Sad, but not surprising. :(
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As a conservative shouldnt you be happy about this? This is a judge shooting down big government's control of the citizen! Less federal laws, MORE STATES LAWS! True conservatives should be dancing in the streets!

Oh wait, it violates your morals, so screw your political beliefs right?

Sorry Bob, I like you and agree with you more than you think about a lot of things, but I think most "conservatives" look like hypocrits over stuff like this. I am not attacking you directly, just using your post as a way to say what I wanted to say.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Handyman said:
As a conservative shouldnt you be happy about this? This is a judge shooting down big government's control of the citizen! Less federal laws, MORE STATES LAWS! True conservatives should be dancing in the streets!

Oh wait, it violates your morals, so screw your political beliefs right?

Sorry Bob, I like you and agree with you more than you think about a lot of things, but I think most "conservatives" look like hypocrits over stuff like this. I am not attacking you directly, just using your post as a way to say what I wanted to say.
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No problem.

I don't get the comment about going with your morals by screwing your political beliefs. For me the two go hand in hand. I understand pragmatism and compromise, but in the end, I'd hope that whether people are on the same side or opposite side of issues as me, their morals would like up with their political beliefs. I can dream, can't I?

Given the complexity of our society growing by the moment, at least in sizable part due to governments passing laws ad infinitum, I'd prefer fewer federal and state laws as a general concept. That said, isn't there a situation in Texas now where a couple women got married in Massachusetts, moved to Texas, and want Texas to allow them to divorce, which Texas has said it doesn't recognize, since it doesn't recognize the marriage in the first place. If for no other reason, having wildly differing definitions of marriage is going to create more and more such problems between states. And of course it's not hard for folks who have been around here awhile to know that on general principles, I don't like what this judge has done, though I also recognize I'm probably in a tiny minority here in saying that.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Yes that is the quagmire we are left with now because this decision has been pussyfooted around for years by the states and federal government. Half measures and platitudes get us to a point where who knows what the heck is right or wrong anymore.

The status quo can't stand though, and DOMA needs to go away. Jesus they allow gay marriage in South Africa...when the hell did South Africa pass the U.S. in liberties?
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Handyman said:
Yes that is the quagmire we are left with now because this decision has been pussyfooted around for years by the states and federal government. Half measures and platitudes get us to a point where who knows what the heck is right or wrong anymore.

The status quo can't stand though, and DOMA needs to go away. Jesus they allow gay marriage in South Africa...when the hell did South Africa pass the U.S. in liberties?
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well, there you are. a sizable portion of Americans don't view the issue as being about liberties.

As for knowing right and wrong, well, some people identify with things that inform then on what is right and wrong, and some people go down the philosophical road that there is no true right and wrong because everything is relative. these two approaches don't mix easily.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Handyman said:
Yes that is the quagmire we are left with now because this decision has been pussyfooted around for years by the states and federal government.
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we should go back to the days when the 10th amendment actually applied. :D ;)
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Bob Gray said:
As for knowing right and wrong, well, some people identify with things that inform then on what is right and wrong, and some people go down the philosophical road that there is no true right and wrong because everything is relative. these two approaches don't mix easily.
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They need to, though, because each of those philosophies is as old as humanity and will go on forever. And at the end of the day, whether your final authority is Mosaic Law, Nature Worship, Functionalist Evolution, or Carl Sagan (PBUH) the amount of overlap of values dwarfs the areas of tension.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Kepler said:
They need to, though, because each of those philosophies is as old as humanity and will go on forever. And at the end of the day, whether your final authority is Mosaic Law, Nature Worship, Functionalist Evolution, or Carl Sagan (PBUH) the amount of overlap of values dwarfs the areas of tension.
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That last conclusion is certainly open to debate. Maybe you're right if you just look at surface values. But if you delve deeper, I think you find much more significant differences and things that are simply polar opposites.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

dxmnkd316 said:
Yes and no. It allows states to not recognize same-sex marriages from other states. However, it defines a marriage as a heterosexual marriage on the federal level.
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Well yes, but it does allow each state to decide for itself (by not forcing one state to accept another state's decision on gay marriage).
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Bob Gray said:
That last conclusion is certainly open to debate. Maybe you're right if you just look at surface values. But if you delve deeper, I think you find much more significant differences and things that are simply polar opposites.
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There are certainly differences, but I actually think it's the opposite -- the noise is on the surface, the core values are nearly identical, at least within western culture. That may be because Christianity dominated western ethical thought for roughly one thousand years (say, 600 to 1600) so that it permeates even secular thought today. Or it may be because the golden rule is pretty obvious and it takes a lot of fancy rationalization to get around. Or it may be because we all share biological-determined aims liking keeping our kids safe and our tribe in ascendancy that gave rise to faiths in the first place. In any case, although thinking about it is very interesting, that common ground will help us "just get along," compromising where possible (civil unions), drawing a line when something is simply too much to bear (resolving ties with shoot outs).
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Kepler said:
There are certainly differences, but I actually think it's the opposite -- the noise is on the surface, the core values are nearly identical, at least within western culture. That may be because Christianity dominated western ethical thought for roughly one thousand years (say, 600 to 1600) so that it permeates even secular thought today. Or it may be because the golden rule is pretty obvious and it takes a lot of fancy rationalization to get around. Or it may be because we all share biological-determined aims liking keeping our kids safe and our tribe in ascendancy that gave rise to faiths in the first place. In any case, although thinking about it is very interesting, that common ground will help us "just get along," compromising where possible (civil unions), drawing a line when something is simply too much to bear (resolving ties with shoot outs).
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There are a whole lot of assumptions built into what you've just said there though. I hesitate to discuss in detail because I'll get the usual assortment of folks climbing all over me. For example, you cite certain things that give rise to faiths. Suffice it to say, for example, Christianity didn't come into place because of aims like keeping kids safe or your tribe in ascendency. Life and existence and what we do are given purpose within God's created order and his plan for relationship with man. Very different than how Carl Sagan saw things. Now, on the surface they might seem to result in similar behaviors at times, but the underlying belief system and purpose for what is done are radically different.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

It's very simple. We can't allow Adam and Steve to get married because we have to protect the sanctity of Tiger's marriage.
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Priceless said:
It's very simple. We can't allow Adam and Steve to get married because we have to protect the sanctity of Tiger's marriage.
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Kepler,

This is the kind of stuff that keeps us from every having a good discussion. :(
 
Re: The Power of the SCOTUS II: "Release the Kagan!"

Bob Gray said:
Kepler,

This is the kind of stuff that keeps us from every having a good discussion. :(
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Discuss whatever you want. At the end of this debate this statement sums up your side of the argument.
 
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