It would be an ugly few years, but the free market would level the playing field.
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The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier
- Thread starter unofan
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It would be an ugly few years, but the free market would level the playing field.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier
Yeah, I really hate the idea of using standardized tests for any significant measure of a teacher's performance. I was never a good standardized test taker (until the GRE which I blew out of the water). Mainly because I would get so worked up and nervous that I would struggle to read the question or passage. Which is funny because I was reading at a very, very young age.
Yeah, I really hate the idea of using standardized tests for any significant measure of a teacher's performance. I was never a good standardized test taker (until the GRE which I blew out of the water). Mainly because I would get so worked up and nervous that I would struggle to read the question or passage. Which is funny because I was reading at a very, very young age.
unofan
Well-known member
Or he forgot to log into his alt before posting. Though that answer want nearly long winded enough to be fresh fish...hmmm
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier
My thoughts on the "teacher tenure" laws.
First, I agree with some people who say they do cause some problems, especially in terms of getting rid of very poor teachers. And we're kidding ourselves if we say that there aren't really bad teachers out there, or we can't reliably figure out who they are. All of us have gone through various levels of the education system in this country, and we've each likely had very good, and not-so-good teachers. Between teacher tenure laws and the generally strong protections afforded by the disciplinary processes in a union contract, the likelihood of a school district forcing out even the worst of the teachers, short of that teacher committing a felony for which prison time will keep them away from the school, is almost nil.
That said, I have also always believed that teacher tenure laws are not something foisted upon us by teachers unions with unfettered political power. In fact, I believe teacher tenure laws are something that school districts themselves, at least privately, have endorsed or at least accepted, for their own selfish reasons.
Let's assume we went to some sort of "free market" approach to teachers, like say doctors or lawyers or architects or engineers. That is, the best in their profession would have the ability to market themselves to various suitors, with the highest bidder prevailing in the race for their services.
Take a school district like in Minneapolis-St. Paul. If you start going to a system of thorough evaluation of teachers performance, with merit pay incentive, suddenly the best teachers in each school, at least according to the evaluations, are going to be publicly identified. Now you're going to have schools like Edina, Eden Prairie, etc..., openly poaching these "best teachers".
With the system in place now, schools are able to "hide" the true stars in their district, short of the typical word of mouth between parents talk that goes on about how you need to have little Jimmy in Mrs. "X's" 4th grade class, instead of Mr. "Y's" class.
I don't think school districts want to accurately evaluate their teachers, and disclose (through merit pay) who their best teachers are, for risk of losing them.
My thoughts on the "teacher tenure" laws.
First, I agree with some people who say they do cause some problems, especially in terms of getting rid of very poor teachers. And we're kidding ourselves if we say that there aren't really bad teachers out there, or we can't reliably figure out who they are. All of us have gone through various levels of the education system in this country, and we've each likely had very good, and not-so-good teachers. Between teacher tenure laws and the generally strong protections afforded by the disciplinary processes in a union contract, the likelihood of a school district forcing out even the worst of the teachers, short of that teacher committing a felony for which prison time will keep them away from the school, is almost nil.
That said, I have also always believed that teacher tenure laws are not something foisted upon us by teachers unions with unfettered political power. In fact, I believe teacher tenure laws are something that school districts themselves, at least privately, have endorsed or at least accepted, for their own selfish reasons.
Let's assume we went to some sort of "free market" approach to teachers, like say doctors or lawyers or architects or engineers. That is, the best in their profession would have the ability to market themselves to various suitors, with the highest bidder prevailing in the race for their services.
Take a school district like in Minneapolis-St. Paul. If you start going to a system of thorough evaluation of teachers performance, with merit pay incentive, suddenly the best teachers in each school, at least according to the evaluations, are going to be publicly identified. Now you're going to have schools like Edina, Eden Prairie, etc..., openly poaching these "best teachers".
With the system in place now, schools are able to "hide" the true stars in their district, short of the typical word of mouth between parents talk that goes on about how you need to have little Jimmy in Mrs. "X's" 4th grade class, instead of Mr. "Y's" class.
I don't think school districts want to accurately evaluate their teachers, and disclose (through merit pay) who their best teachers are, for risk of losing them.
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier
Not quite clear to me how "tenure" laws intersect with LIFO (Last In First Out). The latter is really a major part of the problem: you decide on who to keep based solely on how long they've been on the payroll, period. No other criteria. It seemed like the judge really came down hard on that point.
Not quite clear to me how "tenure" laws intersect with LIFO (Last In First Out). The latter is really a major part of the problem: you decide on who to keep based solely on how long they've been on the payroll, period. No other criteria. It seemed like the judge really came down hard on that point.
FadeToBlack&Gold
No Quarter for Fascists
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier
Sorry, but if Kepler does have a troll alter ego (frankly, I figure a certain moderator would've outed that by now), I'm not believing for one second that it's FF.
Sorry, but if Kepler does have a troll alter ego (frankly, I figure a certain moderator would've outed that by now), I'm not believing for one second that it's FF.
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Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier
I know that is a risk, which is why I wouldn't support a simple deterministic function where your raise (or even your continuation) is tied directly and exclusively to your rating. I was thinking about my experience with good teachers in middle school and high school -- there seemed to be pretty strong agreement about which teachers were inspiring and working hard to teach. These were often among the harder grading teachers, but students respond to challenges and that's how they grow.
There would need to be a circuit-breaker when it comes to overtly political issues (the biology teacher who teaches evolution "wrong" by local community standards).
That makes me cringe for just a moment. Websites like RateMyProfessor started mostly so that students could b*tch and moan about tough profs (and up-vote the attractive ones). Being a tough or strict teacher does not automatically make you a bad teacher.
I know that is a risk, which is why I wouldn't support a simple deterministic function where your raise (or even your continuation) is tied directly and exclusively to your rating. I was thinking about my experience with good teachers in middle school and high school -- there seemed to be pretty strong agreement about which teachers were inspiring and working hard to teach. These were often among the harder grading teachers, but students respond to challenges and that's how they grow.
There would need to be a circuit-breaker when it comes to overtly political issues (the biology teacher who teaches evolution "wrong" by local community standards).
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier
Reports of my reincarnation have been greatly exaggerated.
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier
The other problem we face, and we've seen it arise a few times, is we don't want to implement incentives to cheat and lie. I can't recall where I read about it (outside the VA scandal, I mean) where teachers and principals were fudging grades in order to meet performance targets.
The other problem we face, and we've seen it arise a few times, is we don't want to implement incentives to cheat and lie. I can't recall where I read about it (outside the VA scandal, I mean) where teachers and principals were fudging grades in order to meet performance targets.
dxmnkd316
Lucia Apologist
unofan
Well-known member
Meh, I could see him playing the other side to see what kind of reaction he'd get and to play with people's heads. The long winded ramblings certainly would fit.
You're still celebrating your alma mater knocking off (AGAIN!!!!) my alma mater in the ECAC playoffs.
BTW, how many speed cameras are up in your neck of the woods??
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier
Assuming the teacher unions aren't going anywhere, incentive pay will be moderated by the union in order to help protect its weaker members. The most likely scenario would be that the teachers keep within their pay lanes, but that meeting certain criteria could make them eligible for annual bonuses. While schools would certainly try to poach teachers from other districts, the unions will have a way to keep that in check, too, somehow. Despite what you may or may not think of union bosses, they're not generally stupid people. If districts find a loophole, the unions will be quick to close that loophole.
Assuming the teacher unions aren't going anywhere, incentive pay will be moderated by the union in order to help protect its weaker members. The most likely scenario would be that the teachers keep within their pay lanes, but that meeting certain criteria could make them eligible for annual bonuses. While schools would certainly try to poach teachers from other districts, the unions will have a way to keep that in check, too, somehow. Despite what you may or may not think of union bosses, they're not generally stupid people. If districts find a loophole, the unions will be quick to close that loophole.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier
As far as I know, zero. (Full disclosure: I am a very slow driver.)
As far as I know, zero. (Full disclosure: I am a very slow driver.)
Watch Rt 28 just over the MoCo line. MoCo loves the revenue.
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier
Broadcasters 6 Aereo 3
http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/t...-supreme-court-just-killed-aereo/?tid=HP_lede
Broadcasters 6 Aereo 3
http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/t...-supreme-court-just-killed-aereo/?tid=HP_lede
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier
Either those 6 Justices are technologically illiterate, or they subconsciously favor entrenched interests over technically legal yet practically disruptive technology. Scalia of course gets right to the point: if Aereo is illegal, then also is illegal to use a copy machine to copy pages of a book you own yourself for personal use.
Either those 6 Justices are technologically illiterate, or they subconsciously favor entrenched interests over technically legal yet practically disruptive technology. Scalia of course gets right to the point: if Aereo is illegal, then also is illegal to use a copy machine to copy pages of a book you own yourself for personal use.
St. Clown
Ideas Posted are Likely Not My Own
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier
I think where Aereo got it wrong was that they should've set up a per-client payment to the networks, like cable systems do. Because really, the only difference between Aereo and cable is that cable provides local over-the-air broadcasts and subscription channels while Aereo provides only the local OTA stations.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier
Is sanity returning?
I welcome somebody with more expertise chiming in, but this seems like a very big deal and an indication that just a smidgen of our liberty might be returning after the Dark Ages of the last 13 years.
This decision was 9-0, which suggests to me that the overreach was insane, but it wouldn't be the first time the Court deferred to that.
Is sanity returning?
I welcome somebody with more expertise chiming in, but this seems like a very big deal and an indication that just a smidgen of our liberty might be returning after the Dark Ages of the last 13 years.
This decision was 9-0, which suggests to me that the overreach was insane, but it wouldn't be the first time the Court deferred to that.
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier
Disagree. The more correct analogy is that someone has set up a for-profit business to go into public libraries and copy entire books for their paying customers. The company is profiting from the taxpayer-provided content (library books/OTA TV), not from content that the customer already owns.
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