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The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

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Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

burd said:
I guess someone will have to explain how res ipsa relates to that.
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He's confusing "it speaks for itself" with "convicted out of his own mouth." To be fair, I don't know the Latin for the latter, either.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Kepler said:
He's confusing "it speaks for itself" with "convicted out of his own mouth." To be fair, I don't know the Latin for the latter, either.
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And I think there is a difference between "the thing speaks for itself" and "the thing itself speaks."
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Kepler said:
OK, I think I'm following you so far. But is there a difference in meaning?
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I might be way off on its intended usage, but when you state that "it speaks for itself" the nature of its existence points to the proof of its quality or importance, while "the thing itself speaks" means you have a talking dog.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

St. Clown said:
I might be way off on its intended usage, but when you state that "it speaks for itself" the nature of its existence points to the proof of its quality or importance, while "the thing itself speaks" means you have a talking dog.
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I see. I don't think Cicero has a talking dog in mind. :)

I think this is a case where a loose translation captures the sense better than a direct translation.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

I'll take a shot at it, though I don't know latin, and I'm probably at sea.

When say something "speaks for itself," I think of something like the quality of a work of art or a person's ability to hit a baseball, cook a meal, or sing. I assume the quality of the song, the meal or work of art is the focus of what is being defined. No other evidence or quality opinion is necessary to describe or evaluate the thing. I am seeing an emphasis on the for "for" in the phrase. That is just the way I interpret that phrase.

In res ipsa, though, the physical facts themselves tell a story about other circumstances without the need for extrinsic evidence, often when no such information is available. The fact physical fact might be a scalpel left in a body, but there is no definition or quality given to the scalpel itself (unlike the song or the artwork); rather, the presence of the scalpel tells us somebody handling it screwed up. The scalpel is telling us something about other facts or concepts about which there may be not other way to evaluate. The focus is not on the thing that speaks but on the implications of its existence, as discovered.

Sounds like bullshat and probably is. In fact, I guess you could say the burd's brain just spoke for itself.
 
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Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

burd said:
I don't subscribe to WSJ. Where are you saying res ipsa comes into play?
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It's my understanding that, rather than a literal translation from the Latin of "the thing speaks for itself," the saying is generally used colloquially to mean "no additional commentary from me is needed."




"SCOTUS Justice says voter fraud is a serious problem."

so that I don't need to say anything additional at all about the subject: SCOTUS Justice has already said all that needs saying.
 
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Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

FreshFish said:
It's my understanding that, rather than a literal translation from the Latin of "the thing speaks for itself," the saying is generally used colloquially to mean "no additional commentary from me is needed."
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As described below, res doesn't quite mean that, but it's pretty close. For the thing you are talking about I generally use "Submitted without comment."

The difference:

Submitted without comment: Rick Santorum is quoted as saying "we will never have the smart people on our side."

vs

Since the adoption of Reaganomics in 1980, the wealthiest 1% have tripled their net worth in real dollars, while the median wage earner has suffered a loss in real earnings. Res ipsa loquitur.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Candide said:
For the thing you are talking about I generally use "Submitted without comment."
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I actually had to wipe droplets off my computer screen over that one, it was so funny!

Using the word "generally" to apply to something that never happens!
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

FreshFish said:
I actually had to wipe droplets off my computer screen over that one, it was so funny!

Using the word "generally" to apply to something that never happens!
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I see what you did there.

That was actually pretty clever. You get rep.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Well, class, we had a nice discussion today. Tomorrow we will discuss labor ipse voluptas.

And don't forget to turn in your outlines.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

I learned everything I know about Latin from Last Week Tonight's opening song.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

I need to remember not to visit this page when studying for the bar. :p:D:D

To remember when res ipsa can be used as a shortcut for duty and breach when presenting a prima facie case for a negligence action, keep in mind that the acronym "TIP" needs to be met:

T - type of accident does not normally occur but for negligence
I - instrumentality in exclusive possession of defendant
P - plaintiff not at fault
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Fighting Sioux 23 said:
I need to remember not to visit this page when studying for the bar. :p:D:D

To remember when res ipsa can be used as a shortcut for duty and breach when presenting a prima facie case for a negligence action, keep in mind that the acronym "TIP" needs to be met:

T - type of accident does not normally occur but for negligence
I - instrumentality in exclusive possession of defendant
P - plaintiff not at fault
Click to expand...
This must be one of those facts that you memorize for the test and then forget. It sure doesn't have anything to do most malpractice cases I've reviewed.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

busterman62 said:
This must be one of those facts that you memorize for the test and then forget. It sure doesn't have anything to do most malpractice cases I've reviewed.
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It is an acronym that they teach us for bar prep to remember when to apply res ipsa as only 12% of test takers get the res ipsa multiple choice questions right on the MBE.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Fighting Sioux 23 said:
I need to remember not to visit this page when studying for the bar. :p:D:D

To remember when res ipsa can be used as a shortcut for duty and breach when presenting a prima facie case for a negligence action, keep in mind that the acronym "TIP" needs to be met:

T - type of accident does not normally occur but for negligence
I - instrumentality in exclusive possession of defendant
P - plaintiff not at fault
Click to expand...

Taken right out of BAR-BRI, I'd guess.
 
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