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The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

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Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Kepler said:
I look at it like this. If when the politician kisses your baby you think he likes your baby, then you get what you deserve.

Politics is pandering, period. The solace is that 99% of the time the real feelings of a politician don't mean jack when it comes to job performance. The stated "principles" of politicians just another way for them to connect with voters. They're bull. People have principles. Politicians are not people; they are roles.
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There's a lot of truth to that, unfortunately. I guess I'm a bit idealistic and tend to want to find people to vote for who I agree with and who I think actually believe the positions they take. Probably why I have a hard time finding people to vote for these days that I can have any enthusiasm about.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Bob Gray said:
There's a lot of truth to that, unfortunately. I guess I'm a bit idealistic and tend to want to find people to vote for who I agree with and who I think actually believe the positions they take. Probably why I have a hard time finding people to vote for these days that I can have any enthusiasm about.
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I'm not sure it's a bug. Political power has always been exercised via pragmatic means -- Machiavelli has always been the soul of politics. The times political systems have experimented with ideological purity have not gone well for either the electorate or its neighbors.

Political choices are usually about moving money around. The language of principles is window dressing. So if pols are faking the principles, they are not actually giving false information about the operational content -- their policies. Examine the policies and figure out what the likely effect is, and then vote based on whether that effect is desirable.

tl; dr: Always assume they're lying and follow the money.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Bob Gray said:
I'm not familiar enough with those candidates' histories on those issues to know if they flip-flopped due to poll numbers or not.
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Oh, you mean flip flop. I remember that. I remember at the Bush 2004 Republican Convention they had the flip-flops out to rip on John Kerry. You like men of conviction like John McCain and Lindsey Graham. Guys who want to go to war everywhere no matter what. Analysis be dammed. Can't be swayed by more knowledge. Stick to your guns.

Yet, I do a search on McCain Flip Flops and I find a plethora of Flopping around like a fish. Sigh. Is there no sanity left in the world?

https://www.google.com/search?q=McC...fficial&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp

GOP website calls Graham gutless on GOP principles.

http://www.redstate.com/diary/strid...-graham-enshrined-in-the-g-o-p-hall-of-shame/

I guess the flippers flop both ways.
 
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Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Really interesting piece.

Co-opting the language and posture of grievance is how members of a privileged class express their belief that the way they live shouldn't have to change, that their opponents are hypocrites and perhaps even the real oppressors.
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Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Bob Gray said:
There's a lot of truth to that, unfortunately. I guess I'm a bit idealistic and tend to want to find people to vote for who I agree with and who I think actually believe the positions they take. Probably why I have a hard time finding people to vote for these days that I can have any enthusiasm about.
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OK. What is your own position on same-sex marriage and why?
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Slap Shot said:
Oh boy.
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I predict another mysterious multi-day vacation from Bob, followed by a bout of huffiness about "can't have dialog around here" when he gets back if anyone reminds him that burd asked this question.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

LynahFan said:
I predict another mysterious multi-day vacation from Bob, followed by a bout of huffiness about "can't have dialog around here" when he gets back if anyone reminds him that burd asked this question.
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You're confusing Bob with Pio.

I think I could hit Bob's position concerning same-sex marriage pretty closely. Ahem:

"Even setting aside the historical roots of marriage as one man / one woman, and even for the moment positing that in this brave new world of yours no stigma would be attached either to the couple or their children, same sex marriage lacks the virtues -- assuming both parents are monogamous and living -- that no matter whether a child is a boy or a girl, they have one parent who matches their biological sex and has experience dealing with being that sex, and also that each parent knows the child is biologically theirs, thus increasing both the positive and negative pressures on them to be responsible and not just pack up and leave. While none of this guarantees a healthy childhood, it at least improves the odds. Therefore I oppose same sex marriage on the grounds that we should try to improve the odds of raising healthy children."

I personally have no issue with the basic logic and good intentions of this line of argument. Obviously I weight portions differently and come to a different conclusion, but since Bob reminds me in several ways of my dad and he argued in this manner, I think I know that it comes from a good place.
 
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Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

ScoobyDoo said:
Oh, you mean flip flop. I remember that. I remember at the Bush 2004 Republican Convention they had the flip-flops out to rip on John Kerry. You like men of conviction like John McCain and Lindsey Graham. Guys who want to go to war everywhere no matter what. Analysis be dammed. Can't be swayed by more knowledge. Stick to your guns.

Yet, I do a search on McCain Flip Flops and I find a plethora of Flopping around like a fish. Sigh. Is there no sanity left in the world?

https://www.google.com/search?q=McC...fficial&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hp

GOP website calls Graham gutless on GOP principles.

http://www.redstate.com/diary/strid...-graham-enshrined-in-the-g-o-p-hall-of-shame/

I guess the flippers flop both ways.
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You are confusing me with someone who is a fan of McCain (or Graham for that matter). Not the first time.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

LynahFan said:
I predict another mysterious multi-day vacation from Bob, followed by a bout of huffiness about "can't have dialog around here" when he gets back if anyone reminds him that burd asked this question.
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Stop pouting.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Kepler said:
I'm not sure it's a bug. Political power has always been exercised via pragmatic means -- Machiavelli has always been the soul of politics. The times political systems have experimented with ideological purity have not gone well for either the electorate or its neighbors.

Political choices are usually about moving money around. The language of principles is window dressing. So if pols are faking the principles, they are not actually giving false information about the operational content -- their policies. Examine the policies and figure out what the likely effect is, and then vote based on whether that effect is desirable.

tl; dr: Always assume they're lying and follow the money.
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Again, there's a good bit of truth in what you say, but people come in all shades of gray and are driven by different things. Not everyone fits your description above. Maybe living in the beltway makes you a little more cynical than I am, though I've had more than my share of dealings with governments of various stripes over the years.
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

Kepler said:
You're confusing Bob with Pio.
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Not sure about the multi-day vacation part, but Bob has definitely not been shy about hoisting himself up on the cross of stifled speech.

"I know you are, but what am I" in 3, 2, ...
 
Re: The Power of SCOTUS V: The Final Frontier

GrinCDXX said:
Not sure about the multi-day vacation part, but Bob has definitely not been shy about hoisting himself up on the cross of stifled speech.

"I know you are, but what am I" in 3, 2, ...
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Welcome to Ignore.

Hey, that was fun. I start typing in your name in the Ignore box, and it filled in the rest. Nice feature to make it easier to ignore people who contribute nothing to discussions.
 
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