The New WCHA (2013-14)

[gfmorris]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Well, sure, but as noted by my BSU example, it's all about getting those "extra" games at home. BSU had 4 home OOC games with the exemption, and has ... 4 without it. In the nWCHA, will they be able to get 6 OOC home games 4 out of 6 years? And if they do, will those 3 opponents be UMinn, UMD and UND (with the DQ Cup on the road)? Maybe, but doubtful (at least all of them at home is doubtful). A more realistic possibility is UND home & home, UMD home & home (which may be optimistic with the DQ cup), DQ cup and maybe get say, Mercyhurst (just to throw a random team out there). Compared to those two years with no exemption, when the schedule doesn't let them bring in (insert random no-name team), is the Alaska exemption a huge deal to BSU? Eh, maybe...

This is the other part of the argument, which is that extra allowable games won't necessarily convert to extra home games. As for my anecdote, truly that applied to that year only, but my larger (un- or poorly-stated) point is that just because you can schedule extra games doesn't mean that you will.

GFM

 

[Almington]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

This is a ridiculous minimum. Suggesting numbers that low is disingenuous. First of all ... excluding UAA and UAF -- the average number of seats for the remaining 6 schools is 4668. Your method of suggesting revenue is flawed as well. The only reasonable thing to do is talk about the potential additional revenue. So on average with $20 tickets there is a potential for 150K+ additional revenue if the member school is able to find a way to maximize it. They have opportunities to be creative.

Except that most of the schools don't sell their single game tickets for over $20 and capacity doesn't matter if they don't sell the tickets.

Look at the ACTUAL attendance from 2010-11 as reported to the NCAA Link to pdf

Bemidji St 3,876
Minn. St. Mankato 3,711
Alas. Anchorage 3,319
Alas. Fairbanks 3,134
Northern Mich 2,541
Michigan Tech 2,345
Bowling Green 2,167
Lake Superior St 2,103
Ferris St 1,734

Only 2 of the non-AK schools averaged over ~2,500 per game

What about the Single-game ticket prices:
BSU: ~$25 (average) Link
MSU: ~$20 (average) Link
LSSU: $10 Link
MTU: $17 Link
NMU: $15 Link
BGSU: $18 Link
FSU: $13 Link

Given the above numbers, I fail to see how an estimate of 2,500 tickets at $15 each isn't an accurate representation of what those 5 schools can expect in terms of ticket revenue per game ($37,500). That is before considering any discount that might be given for season tickets, students, or different ticket tiers and ignoring any costs associated with running the arena or making the return trip to the visiting school.

500 student tickets at $5 + 1500 season tickets at 20% discount from single game prices $12 + 500 single game at $15 drops the revenue to $28,000. $3k to operate the arena during game day drops the net to $25,000 per game

Assuming that the 4 exempt games result in one home series and one road series, the net revenue is $50k minus the cost of the road series (~10k or so depending on distance traveled) so those 5 schools would be looking at a $40k increase on a $1.25M budget for the year (or about 3.2% of the total budget). The numbers are much better for BSU and MSUM because they have higher ticket prices and MSUM has seen higher attendance in the recent past.

 

[Laker54]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Except that most of the schools don't sell their single game tickets for over $20 and capacity doesn't matter if they don't sell the tickets.

Look at the ACTUAL attendance from 2010-11 as reported to the NCAA Link to pdf

Bemidji St 3,876
Minn. St. Mankato 3,711
Alas. Anchorage 3,319
Alas. Fairbanks 3,134
Northern Mich 2,541
Michigan Tech 2,345
Bowling Green 2,167
Lake Superior St 2,103
Ferris St 1,734

Only 2 of the non-AK schools averaged over ~2,500 per game

What about the Single-game ticket prices:
BSU: ~$25 (average) Link
MSU: ~$20 (average) Link
LSSU: $10 Link
MTU: $17 Link
NMU: $15 Link
BGSU: $18 Link
FSU: $13 Link

Given the above numbers, I fail to see how an estimate of 2,500 tickets at $15 each isn't an accurate representation of what those 5 schools can expect in terms of ticket revenue per game ($37,500). That is before considering any discount that might be given for season tickets, students, or different ticket tiers and ignoring any costs associated with running the arena or making the return trip to the visiting school.

500 student tickets at $5 + 1500 season tickets at 20% discount from single game prices $12 + 500 single game at $15 drops the revenue to $28,000. $3k to operate the arena during game day drops the net to $25,000 per game

Assuming that the 4 exempt games result in one home series and one road series, the net revenue is $50k minus the cost of the road series (~10k or so depending on distance traveled) so those 5 schools would be looking at a $40k increase on a $1.25M budget for the year (or about 3.2% of the total budget). The numbers are much better for BSU and MSUM because they have higher ticket prices and MSUM has seen higher attendance in the recent past.

I clicked on your link to BGSU and see their ticket price is $9.00 not $18.00 for a single adult. I do recall paying $11 a couple of years ago when I attended a game.

 

[Almington]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

I clicked on your link to BGSU and see their ticket price is $9.00 not $18.00 for a single adult. I do recall paying $11 a couple of years ago when I attended a game.

BGSU has a number of levels for Single-Game Seat Prices:

General Admission Adult * - $9.00
General Admission Youth/Senior/Military * - 7.00
PRIME Chair-back Reserved * - $18.00
Bench Reserved Adult * - $11.00
Bench Reserved Youth/Senior/Military * - $9.00
Group of 20-49 ** - $6.00
Group of 50 + ** - $4.00

I simply picket the highest priced ticket for all the schools (except BSU and MSUM where I noted that it was an average price) to give an upper limit to the potential ticket revenue per game.

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

you missed one important part, it's per team. So you can make a trip to see UAA & UAF.

I still have to wonder if UAA and UAF will get together and try to shift games by a day or even two and try to allow teams to schedule them on back-to-back weekends. For example a Sat-Sun with one team and a Fri-Sat or Thur-Fri with the other team. In short scheduling it just like a road trip on pro sports. You could prob get two or three teams a year that would take advantage of it if it worked with their semester, holiday or spring break. I sure any team would love the opportunity to bank four extra home game and only have to make one extended trip to AK. Four nights in a hotel has to be way less than another plane ticket. Heck you might even get some fans that would make a week out of it and throw some money into the local hotels and other businesses.
Ryan J

 

[Iwearpurple]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

I still have to wonder if UAA and UAF will get together and try to shift games by a day or even two and try to allow teams to schedule them on back-to-back weekends. For example a Sat-Sun with one team and a Fri-Sat or Thur-Fri with the other team. In short scheduling it just like a road trip on pro sports. You could prob get two or three teams a year that would take advantage of it if it worked with their semester, holiday or spring break. I sure any team would love the opportunity to bank four extra home game and only have to make one extended trip to AK. Four nights in a hotel has to be way less than another plane ticket. Heck you might even get some fans that would make a week out of it and throw some money into the local hotels and other businesses.
Ryan J

This really makes a lot of sense. Ever since it was announced that UAF was joining the league, I have discussed this scheduling arrangement with friends of mine who seem to agree. There will be those who disagree, saying that class schedules among other things will not permit this, but I disagree. To the best of my knowledge, UAA already does this once a year, and I am assuming that UAF does also.

I also agree that it would permit fans from the lower 48 to make a week long trip to Alaska, get 4 hockey games in and spend 4 or 5 days between games seeing the state. I have been there in summer, but never in the winter, and hope that this is the way that schedules are done.

 

[Squarebanks]

UAF takes at least one two week roadie, and sometimes two every year. Same for UAA. It's doable, although we always do ours right after the new year, before classes start.

This really makes a lot of sense. Ever since it was announced that UAF was joining the league, I have discussed this scheduling arrangement with friends of mine who seem to agree. There will be those who disagree, saying that class schedules among other things will not permit this, but I disagree. To the best of my knowledge, UAA already does this once a year, and I am assuming that UAF does also.

I also agree that it would permit fans from the lower 48 to make a week long trip to Alaska, get 4 hockey games in and spend 4 or 5 days between games seeing the state. I have been there in summer, but never in the winter, and hope that this is the way that schedules are done.

 

[MavsFan]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

UAF takes at least one two week roadie, and sometimes two every year. Same for UAA. It's doable, although we always do ours right after the new year, before classes start.

That's the issue. Only one school would be able to do that each year. The others would be missing at least a week of classes to do it.

 

[davyd83]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

This really makes a lot of sense. Ever since it was announced that UAF was joining the league, I have discussed this scheduling arrangement with friends of mine who seem to agree. There will be those who disagree, saying that class schedules among other things will not permit this, but I disagree. To the best of my knowledge, UAA already does this once a year, and I am assuming that UAF does also.

I also agree that it would permit fans from the lower 48 to make a week long trip to Alaska, get 4 hockey games in and spend 4 or 5 days between games seeing the state. I have been there in summer, but never in the winter, and hope that this is the way that schedules are done.

Does it make sense? How badly would those schools want to trade the revenue from a Friday night game and turn it into a Sunday crowd? Or take a Saturday night gate and exchange it for Thursday nmoney. You're likely talking a great deal of difference here. For a team from the lower 48 you are also talking 7 straight days out of school to make such a trip. Alaska usually makes their lower 48 runs in connection with a break. If the Alaska schools are down here on break periods, there's no one to play in Alaska.

 

[Back check]

Does it make sense? How badly would those schools want to trade the revenue from a Friday night game and turn it into a Sunday crowd? Or take a Saturday night gate and exchange it for Thursday nmoney. You're likely talking a great deal of difference here. For a team from the lower 48 you are also talking 7 straight days out of school to make such a trip. Alaska usually makes their lower 48 runs in connection with a break. If the Alaska schools are down here on break periods, there's no one to play in Alaska.

Hey bean counter - ever make a post about hockey?

 

[davyd83]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Hey bean counter - ever make a post about hockey?

The bean counting is a big part of hockey reality. Especially now that the guys with lots of beans took their beans to a bigger bean party.

 

[beaverhockeyfan]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

The bean counting is a big part of hockey reality. Especially now that the guys with lots of beans took their beans to a bigger bean party.

I don't think I want to be at that bean party when everything "blows" up.

 

[aparch]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

The bean counting is a big part of hockey reality. Especially now that the guys with lots of beans took their beans to a bigger bean party.

Footage from the Bigger Bean Party (NCHC) gathering to discuss how to to get rid of the <strike>Sheriff</strike> B1G Conference.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9zXygCaEIME" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Hey bean counter - ever make a post about hockey?

Isn't that illegal in 38 states and Canada?

 

[davyd83]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

I don't think I want to be at that bean party when everything "blows" up.

That is a fantastic post.

 

[moose97]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

That's the issue. Only one school would be able to do that each year. The others would be missing at least a week of classes to do it.

Why only one school?

Thanksgiving break is usually one week long - send team A up to play UA_ Sat/Sun before Thanksgiving and team B plays UAA, then flip opponents the Fri/Sat after Thaksgiving.

Just after Christmas (rather than going to a holiday tourney), team C plays UA_ and team D plays UAA, flip opponents the following weekend.

Spring break - same deal; team E plays UA_ while team F plays UAA Sat/Sun, then flip the following weekend.

That looks like 6 schools could take advantage to me.

Now, the downside is that UAA and UA_ are locked in to some pretty bad attendance home dates every year, and that, more than anything, would kill making it work for 6 teams. but you could certainly do one of the three options every year if you wanted...

 

[MavsFan]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Why only one school?

Thanksgiving break is usually one week long - send team A up to play UA_ Sat/Sun before Thanksgiving and team B plays UAA, then flip opponents the Fri/Sat after Thaksgiving.

Just after Christmas (rather than going to a holiday tourney), team C plays UA_ and team D plays UAA, flip opponents the following weekend.

Spring break - same deal; team E plays UA_ while team F plays UAA Sat/Sun, then flip the following weekend.

That looks like 6 schools could take advantage to me.

Now, the downside is that UAA and UA_ are locked in to some pretty bad attendance home dates every year, and that, more than anything, would kill making it work for 6 teams. but you could certainly do one of the three options every year if you wanted...

Yeah, you're right, but as was pointed out above, that would mean the Alaska schools would always have to stay home at those times, and they apparently take advantage of those to cut down on their travel.

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

That's the issue. Only one school would be able to do that each year. The others would be missing at least a week of classes to do it.

Not really - schools have breaks at different times. Tech used to be, but are any WCHA programs still on quarters vs two semesters? I think with a close look you could find at least four teams a year that COULD do this, but WOULD they is a different story. Also I agree that that Thursday gate money would be less than Fri / Sat BUT if the hosting team can cut the travel money offered to the visiting team by 50% maybe that is $7500 in savings or in other words you need 750 less fans in the building to get the same cash flow. Of course I would rather have fans in the seat than bucks in the bank, but if it comes to bean counting to keep the WCHA healthy on the balance sheet, there may be some creative thinking required. I never even though of the obvious possibility of two teams being in AK and just swapping cities after the first weekend. MTU and BSU share a plane from Duluth to AK and back. There are a lot of ways to cut cost, but they take much more upfront planning to execute.
Ryan J

 

[giwan]

Re: The New WCHA (2013-14)

Not really - schools have breaks at different times. Tech used to be, but are any WCHA programs still on quarters vs two semesters? I think with a close look you could find at least four teams a year that COULD do this, but WOULD they is a different story. Also I agree that that Thursday gate money would be less than Fri / Sat BUT if the hosting team can cut the travel money offered to the visiting team by 50% maybe that is $7500 in savings or in other words you need 750 less fans in the building to get the same cash flow. Of course I would rather have fans in the seat than bucks in the bank, but if it comes to bean counting to keep the WCHA healthy on the balance sheet, there may be some creative thinking required. I never even though of the obvious possibility of two teams being in AK and just swapping cities after the first weekend. MTU and BSU share a plane from Duluth to AK and back. There are a lot of ways to cut cost, but they take much more upfront planning to execute.Ryan J

Though things like this can be complicated to plan, it would be smart of the conference to think about dealing with such issues to benefit ALL. May sound a little socialist but there is bargaining power in numbers. The conference as a group should make use of that group power, but do they get along well enough?

Is the nWCHA of like minds?

 

[Jimjamesak]

Why only one school?

Thanksgiving break is usually one week long - send team A up to play UA_ Sat/Sun before Thanksgiving and team B plays UAA, then flip opponents the Fri/Sat after Thaksgiving.

Just after Christmas (rather than going to a holiday tourney), team C plays UA_ and team D plays UAA, flip opponents the following weekend.

Spring break - same deal; team E plays UA_ while team F plays UAA Sat/Sun, then flip the following weekend.

That looks like 6 schools could take advantage to me.

Now, the downside is that UAA and UA_ are locked in to some pretty bad attendance home dates every year, and that, more than anything, would kill making it work for 6 teams. but you could certainly do one of the three options every year if you wanted...

I'm gonna throw monkey wrench into to your plans right now. I want you to Google "Great Alaska Shootout", the UAA Athletic Department's prime moneymaker that is held Thanksgiving week.