The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

[The Rube]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Saw it this morning....

I won't delve into all the "what it means" stuff, I saw it simply for the character study. Some of this will be repeated in my official review in the Movies thread.

What we saw was not a slow breakdown of a human. We saw a complete collapse, brick by brick, in a meticulous manner. The movie could have ended at 3 different points, ALL would have been quality endings.
1. Cut to black, one last laugh heard.
2. "...but you wouldn't get it." cut to black. (JESUS!)
3. The actual ending, which REALLY made you cock your head and mutter ".................the fcuk..........................."

As the movie progressed, I found myself agreeing with some of you in thinking "I don't really want to see this again" but when it ended, not only will I need to see this movie again, I will buy this movie when it comes out. It's that good, IMO.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Saw the film earlier today. The ONE thing that keeps popping into my head is the Batman "origin" scene. Seriously, just cut Thomas, Martha, and Bruce leaving the theatre and heading into that dark alley, and this film is perfect. That scene took me out of the film for the moment and I'm not happy about it. It was not needed at all.

We all know that the unrest in Gotham would create Batman eventually. It didn't need to be tied into this story at all. I really wonder if Warner told Todd Phillips that he needed to have something tying this to the larger world of Batman. I just don't see how it fits the narrative that the film presents.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Saw the film earlier today. The ONE thing that keeps popping into my head is the Batman "origin" scene. Seriously, just cut Thomas, Martha, and Bruce leaving the theatre and heading into that dark alley, and this film is perfect. That scene took me out of the film for the moment and I'm not happy about it. It was not needed at all.

We all know that the unrest in Gotham would create Batman eventually. It didn't need to be tied into this story at all. I really wonder if Warner told Todd Phillips that he needed to have something tying this to the larger world of Batman. I just don't see how it fits the narrative that the film presents.

I can see that about the alley scene, given Arthur's visit to Wayne Manor in a previous scene.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

I can see that about the alley scene, given Arthur's visit to Wayne Manor in a previous scene.

I had no problem with Arthur visiting Wayne Manor earlier in the film. It fits his narrative (he truly believed that he was Thomas Wayne's son at the time). It was a key moment, eventually leading to Arthur finding out he was adopted and abused by his mother. It was part of the "brick by brick" dismantling of Arthur's mental state.

That part stands on it's own. Getting to see Batman's parents shot (again ) did nothing for the larger narrative.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

I had no problem with Arthur visiting Wayne Manor earlier in the film. It fits his narrative (he truly believed that he was Thomas Wayne's son at the time). It was a key moment, eventually leading to Arthur finding out he was adopted and abused by his mother. It was part of the "brick by brick" dismantling of Arthur's mental state.

That part stands on it's own. Getting to see Batman's parents shot (again ) did nothing for the larger narrative.

Exactly. The visit pretty much explains the alley. The actual alley scenes were not really needed, to your point.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Saw the film earlier today. The ONE thing that keeps popping into my head is the Batman "origin" scene. Seriously, just cut Thomas, Martha, and Bruce leaving the theatre and heading into that dark alley, and this film is perfect. That scene took me out of the film for the moment and I'm not happy about it. It was not needed at all.

We all know that the unrest in Gotham would create Batman eventually. It didn't need to be tied into this story at all. I really wonder if Warner told Todd Phillips that he needed to have something tying this to the larger world of Batman. I just don't see how it fits the narrative that the film presents.

They didnt, he did it on his own. (he said they left him alone from the beginning) And it made sense to include it because usually Batman is seen as what causes the rise of villains like the Joker (in comics and movies) but in this story Joker causes the birth of Batman. (and not like in Batman '89)

I liked it and it fit perfectly imho.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

They didnt, he did it on his own. (he said they left him alone from the beginning) And it made sense to include it because usually Batman is seen as what causes the rise of villains like the Joker (in comics and movies) but in this story Joker causes the birth of Batman. (and not like in Batman '89)

I liked it and it fit perfectly imho.

Race's point is that we all know how the parents were killed, so why include the specifics? Once they went down the alley, boomdone.

Yes, it's a nitpick, but it did distract from the movie just a touch.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Because it is an iconic scene, and people would have wondered about it if it wasnt included. Plus they spent so much time dealing with Thomas that was the way to put a bow on it.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Because it is an iconic scene, and people would have wondered about it if it wasnt included. Plus they spent so much time dealing with Thomas that was the way to put a bow on it.

I understand your take, but will disagree. Maybe just in case someone somewhere DIDN'T know the story behind the Joker/Batman connection? On the other hand, that would be like not knowing that Darth Vader is Luke's father.....

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Because it is an iconic scene, and people would have wondered about it if it wasnt included. Plus they spent so much time dealing with Thomas that was the way to put a bow on it.

Look at how minimal all the other direct references to the source material were throughout the film. They were all 1 or 2 out of 10. That was a 9 or 10 with lights, sirens, and arrows around it.

It really took me out of the film at that point. I was trying to comprehend what went down during the Murray Franklin show. There is a ton to unpack in those scenes from both a narrative standpoint and a performance standpoint (specifically it stood out how Juaquin's line delivery changed. The whole film he was shy, quiet, and not confident in his voice. Once on the show he speaks with authority and confidence and his delivery is very crisp. It signals his change from Arthur to Joker)

 

[The Rube]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Look at how minimal all the other direct references to the source material were throughout the film. They were all 1 or 2 out of 10. That was a 9 or 10 with lights, sirens, and arrows around it.

It really took me out of the film at that point. I was trying to comprehend what went down during the Murray Franklin show. There is a ton to unpack in those scenes from both a narrative standpoint and a performance standpoint (specifically it stood out how Juaquin's line delivery changed. The whole film he was shy, quiet, and not confident in his voice. Once on the show he speaks with authority and confidence and his delivery is very crisp. It signals his change from Arthur to Joker)

I read up on IMDB, and his "Murr-RAY!!" pronunciation was a key thing during that scene. Subtle, but huge.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Added: the Murray scene, he faced the gavel, and swung towards the criminal. You can SEE him making the choice. It was nut-cutting time, and he went for it.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Look at how minimal all the other direct references to the source material were throughout the film. They were all 1 or 2 out of 10. That was a 9 or 10 with lights, sirens, and arrows around it.

It really took me out of the film at that point. I was trying to comprehend what went down during the Murray Franklin show. There is a ton to unpack in those scenes from both a narrative standpoint and a performance standpoint (specifically it stood out how Juaquin's line delivery changed. The whole film he was shy, quiet, and not confident in his voice. Once on the show he speaks with authority and confidence and his delivery is very crisp. It signals his change from Arthur to Joker)

I get what you are saying...what I am saying is I think you are in the extreme minority on that one especially amongst the comic fans.

 

[The Rube]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

GOT IT!
If anyone has seen "Critter Christmas" South Park...Joker is that, on a deeper intellectual/societal commentary level. Into the depths of the imagination we go.....

 

[St. Clown]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

I had to duck out of the theater when the Joker was in the cop car as it was struck by the ambulance, and then I arrived back as he was dancing on the hood. What happened in between?

 

[Handyman]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

I had to duck out of the theater when the Joker was in the cop car as it was struck by the ambulance, and then I arrived back as he was dancing on the hood. What happened in between?

Joker is pulled out of the car unconscious, then the Waynes leave a theater (where Zorro is playing like in the comics) and Thomas and Martha are killed by a dude in a clown mask in the Batman origin style, then Joker wakes up and then dances for the crowd.

In white cause...spoilers.

 

[ticapnews]

Martha

Why did you say that name?????

 

[Handyman]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

Why did you say that name?????

<img src="https://media1.giphy.com/media/u49M522ZDDe8w7IQ9S/giphy.gif" />

 

[solovsfett]

I'm sorry but the Incel stuff is rather disingenuous. Joker is hardly the first character to be crazy and live at home with Mom. By that definition Norman Bates is an Incel. The trope predates the modern society(Law and Order used it a ton in the last 30 years) and I find it kind of pathetic The Left is using it as an excuse to **** on the film. Arthur may fit the definition of what an Incel is but so do evil people in films going back decades and the same reviewers love those films.

The Right can **** off too. Their complaints are hollow to me. It isn't like that wasn't the perfect pastiche of New York in 1981. Truth hurts...EAT THE RICH!

I liked seeing the Batman origin only cause it showed that the fall of Gotham spawned both disease AND the cure. Batman and Joker are both caused by Gotham.

And yes the killing of the D-bags felt like justice...until the last one where he hunted him.

I absolutely agree with all of this.

I’d also add THIS Joker is a sympathetic character period. What’s the difference between Arthur Fleck and Travis Bickle? Fleck has a mental condition that needed treatment and it evidently ran in his family. This movie shows one possible outcome to a man that’s damaged to start but is also shat on at every opportunity along the way.

It gives the NYT and others the mirror they need to look into and it gives much needed depth to the character.

I don’t give a **** what the gop thinks of this film. It’s not written for them and will never understand the kill the rich sentiment that pervades this version of Gotham.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The Movie Spoiler Thread. You've Been Warned

The Right can **** off too. Their complaints are hollow to me. It isn't like that wasn't the perfect pastiche of New York in 1981. Truth hurts...EAT THE RICH!

It's arguably now the perfect pastiche of large swaths of San Francisco and LA in 2019.