The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

[Kepler]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

The problem with the gun argument is, much of what you can do to limit them is going to hurt someone who uses guns responsibly and correctly, and do nothing to the criminal who will buy them illegally anyway.

Although you could say the same thing about a lot of things that are regulated. "Some kids will get fake IDs" is not a reason to not ID check people buying beer.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Who needs to shoot 50 deer in the span of a minute or two? There's no other purpose for the weapon used than what it was used for.

Nobody needs to shoot 50 deer in the span of a minute or two. Obviously. What's your point?

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Gun violence is certainly a problem and I'd support some tightening of gun registration rules and such, but there are a variety of legitimate gun uses, with hunting coming to mind at the moment. Not into it myself, but if uses like that ever get impaired, it'll be a sad day.

Agree. That's why I support 'kill zones'. Legalized rural hunting zones...where anything that goes in puts its life at risk. City streets should not qualify as kill zones.

The problem with the gun argument is, much of what you can do to limit them is going to hurt someone who uses guns responsibly and correctly, and do nothing to the criminal who will buy them illegally anyway.

That is at best debatable. Mayors, who watch city populations closely, are typically for appropriate measures. Mayors against illegal guns has a considerable set of legislation it proposes to manage gun trafficking. The NRA vehemently opposes the Mayors against illegal guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayors_Against_Illegal_Guns

 

[jmh]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

# 5 on my list is how dramatically underfunded are state and municipal pensions, and the problem is worsening in geometric fashion year by year:

Agree. This is a serious problem going forward that's far from being exciting enough to capture the public eye.

 

[Proud2baLaker]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Nobody needs to shoot 50 deer in the span of a minute or two. Obviously. What's your point?

I think his point was that no one needs the assault rifles and semi automatic/automatic weapons that are out there. Handguns for home protection and shotguns / hunting rifles should be enough.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

I think his point was that no one needs the assault rifles and semi automatic/automatic weapons that are out there. Handguns for home protection and shotguns / hunting rifles should be enough.

Which isn't something I commented on, so again, not sure why he'd think I support killing 50 deer or whatever. I mean, I said I supported some more restrictions!

 

[Proud2baLaker]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Which isn't something I commented on, so again, not sure why he'd think I support killing 50 deer or whatever. I mean, I said I supported some more restrictions!

He may have quoted you but I dont think he was implying that you did support that. I looked at it as more of a general statement saying that people dont need assualt rifles with large clips if they are using weapons for hunting. Those guns dont need to be available to the general public and is one of those areas of gun ownership that needs to be addressed. At least thats they way I read the statement, maybe I am wrong.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Agree. That's why I support 'kill zones'. Legalized rural hunting zones...where anything that goes in puts its life at risk. City streets should not qualify as kill zones.



That is at best debatable. Mayors, who watch city populations closely, are typically for appropriate measures. Mayors against illegal guns has a considerable set of legislation it proposes to manage gun trafficking. The NRA vehemently opposes the Mayors against illegal guns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayors_Against_Illegal_Guns

Illegal guns are illegal, obviously. Get rid of them whatever way possible. That isn't the problem I have. And I think the conversation here is pretty much in line with that. Leave all hunting rifles, shotguns, collector guns, and most handguns alone.

And as a hunter, I have to say, the idea of a "Kill zone" might be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Nobody said 'take away your guns'. But keep em off city streets and out of public theaters.

And as a hunter, I have to say, the idea of a "Kill zone" might be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

A simple designation. So if you're camping with your kids, youre not at risk of being shot at. Hunters may not see the benefits...but parents would.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Nobody said 'take away your guns'. But keep em off city streets and out of public theaters.



A simple designation. So if you're camping with your kids, youre not at risk of being shot at. Hunters may not see the benefits...but parents would.

Or follow the law and wear protective colors when you're in the woods during the season.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Although you could say the same thing about a lot of things that are regulated. "Some kids will get fake IDs" is not a reason to not ID check people buying beer.

I think this is one of those situations where both sides are right, and it's just a matter of relative priorities. It's absolutely true that some people will find ways to obtain illegal weapons, regardless of legal prohibitions. But I think it's also true that some combination of stricter laws and enforcement would make a difference - at least on the margins.

Ironically, it would be least likely to make a difference for the high-profile cases like the theater shooting or VaTech. A nutcase that committed to living out some vigilante/terrorist fantasy is probably going to be willing to jump through whatever illegal hoops are necessary. But it could help with the level of day-to-day gun violence that doesn't even get reported, because it's become so ordinary.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

He may have quoted you but I dont think he was implying that you did support that. I looked at it as more of a general statement saying that people dont need assualt rifles with large clips if they are using weapons for hunting. Those guns dont need to be available to the general public and is one of those areas of gun ownership that needs to be addressed. At least thats they way I read the statement, maybe I am wrong.

I just assume when someone quotes me and then comments that the comments are directed toward me.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Or follow the law and wear protective colors when you're in the woods during the season.

Oh hell, this nonsense happened to me and my dad a couple years ago on the 3rd day of deer rifle season. We're out in the woods, and my dad decides he's going to walk around mid-morning to see if he can scare something up. Gets maybe a couple hundred yards away and he can here little kids talking. Gets closer, and there's a tent sitting on the two track we walked in on. Walks off elsewhere, and runs into a guy (at least wearing orange), but unarmed and he says he's out trying to scare up a deer so that his grandkids in the tent can see one. On the 3rd day of the 15 days a year one can hunt deer with a rifle in Michigan.

What the ****. Needless to say, we didn't see squat that day.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Oh hell, this nonsense happened to me and my dad a couple years ago on the 3rd day of deer rifle season. We're out in the woods, and my dad decides he's going to walk around mid-morning to see if he can scare something up. Gets maybe a couple hundred yards away and he can here little kids talking. Gets closer, and there's a tent sitting on the two track we walked in on. Walks off elsewhere, and runs into a guy (at least wearing orange), but unarmed and he says he's out trying to scare up a deer so that his grandkids in the tent can see one. On the 3rd day of the 15 days a year one can hunt deer with a rifle in Michigan.

What the ****. Needless to say, we didn't see squat that day.

Zones would solve that. No families...only hunters and deer.

 

[bronconick]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Zones would solve that. No families...only hunters and deer.

So would knowing when hunting season is. Since it's the leading story every November 15th that over a million folks in Michigan are in the woods shooting at deer, I'm pretty sure it's his farking fault. Hint 2: Hunting in state and local parks in Michigan is forbidden. Do your family camping where "kill-free zones" have already been created.

Your idea also ignores the reality that states use hunting and the issuing of licenses to control the population of the animals hunted.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

And as a hunter, I have to say, the idea of a "Kill zone" might be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

As soon as the deer read the sign, they're outta there!

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Here's an idea. Is it in the woods? Yes? Is there anything saying you can't hunt there? No? Then you're in a kill zone.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

I think his point was that no one needs the assault rifles and semi automatic/automatic weapons that are out there. Handguns for home protection and shotguns / hunting rifles should be enough.

most shotguns and hunting rifles are by definition semi-automatic....

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

Nobody said 'take away your guns'. But keep em off city streets and out of public theaters.

If a law abiding citizen had been carrying a gun this morning at that movie theatre, maybe only a couple people are dead and a dozen wounded instead of a dozen and 50. Keeping guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens who want to protect themselves is not a good thing. That sign that said that theater banned guns on the property really helped everyone in theatre 9 this morning didn't it?

 

[bronconick]

Re: The Most Serious [x] Problem We Face Today

If a law abiding citizen had been carrying a gun this morning at that movie theatre, maybe only a couple people are dead and a dozen wounded instead of a dozen and 50. Keeping guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens who want to protect themselves is not a good thing. That sign that said that theater banned guns on the property really helped everyone in theatre 9 this morning didn't it?

Okay, honestly in a number of scenarios I can agree with this. A darkened theater where tear gas or an equivalent has been thrown in is not one of them. The military uses special equipment and training for night fighting. Your average CCW doesn't come close to preparedness for either, meaning additional guns in the theater would have much more likely gotten more people shot.

Guy A gets up and fires back at the crazy. Guy B 4 rows back, are there two gunmen in here or is one of them trying to protect us from the other? In the daytime, you can tell the difference between the nutbar carrying around half a dozen weapons and body armor and the guy who was walking his dog that took his concealed weapon out. In that theater, you're going on what, muzzle flashes?