The Home Improvement Thread. Successes and Failures

[Swansong]

One thing I saw that probably cuts water usage by at least double digits from Gen 1 TWHs was the recirc loop. TWHs take a bit to get up to temp, so you're basically just dumping water down the drain. Some come with a recirc loop (not sure how this works with regards to opening a tap and waiting) that gets the water up to temp and then sends it to the hot water header. Again, it's just one more pain in the *** thing to break and... Jeeze, I dunno man. I'd rather just buy a 12" thick bat of insulation than worry about 100 parts failing.

Too bad we can't just make these things out of hastelloy, make them vacuum insulated pressure vessels, and they'd outlast the cockroaches.

I have no earthly idea what almost any of the words in this post mean, but I will say that my totally awesome, 1 year old 40 gallon hot water heater has what I think is the same problem you mention. Water in the pipes between the heater and the shower head cools off, and it takes a minute for piping hot water to work its way through the labyrinthine plumbing system.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Water in the pipes between the heater and the shower head cools off, and it takes a minute for piping hot water to work its way through the labyrinthine plumbing system.

Are your pipes insulated? Accessible? Foam pipe insulation will go a long way to helping that problem.

My shower is roughly 25' or so from the hot water tank in the unfinished basement. In winter the basement stays at about 68? since the main heating lines are 1-1/2 steel pipe that run down the center of the basement, so it's far from cold down there. We would have to wait 45-90 seconds to get shower-worthy hot water. Since I insulated the run (which is PEX tubing), hot water can usually be had in 15-30 seconds. Doesn't solve the problem but makes it a bunch easier to tolerate.

 

[Swansong]

Are your pipes insulated? Accessible? Foam pipe insulation will go a long way to helping that problem.

My shower is roughly 25' or so from the hot water tank in the unfinished basement. In winter the basement stays at about 68? since the main heating lines are 1-1/2 steel pipe that run down the center of the basement, so it's far from cold down there. We would have to wait 45-90 seconds to get shower-worthy hot water. Since I insulated the run (which is PEX tubing), hot water can usually be had in 15-30 seconds. Doesn't solve the problem but makes it a bunch easier to tolerate.

I still have some asbestos insulation down in the basement, but once it gets into the walls, it's an old house with horse hair plaster, so no insulation between the exterior walls and the plaster. The basement gets down as low as the low 60s.

I'd guess on average, it takes a good 1-2 minutes. Not really a complaint, I guess.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

I still have some asbestos insulation down in the basement, but once it gets into the walls, it's an old house with horse hair plaster, so no insulation between the exterior walls and the plaster. The basement gets down as low as the low 60s.

I'd guess on average, it takes a good 1-2 minutes. Not really a complaint, I guess.

The joys of an older home. Fortunately I've remodeled the entire 1st floor over the last 10-15 years and was able to put proper insulation in the walls, and replace the old, drafty doors and windows.

 

[dxmnkd316]

So the plow took out the door on my mailbox. It's a shitty mailbox. Decided to just buy a new one.

get everything installed on the mailbox, start mounting it to the post and realize, the MFer cracked the primary post too. Great. Just fucking great. Glad we don't have two feed of ice pack around the mailboxes and about two months until it thaws. Goddamnit.

 

[LynahFan]

Plus tankless heaters are expensive to service.

Oh hell yeah. Just be glad yours isn’t installed 1/4 mile from the Atlantic Ocean where, but for the presence of Floridians with lawn mowers, it would be a tropical jungle. I swear PVC rusts here if you leave it out overnight. I expect to replace ours every 4 years or so.

But the wife wants her 45 min showers, ya know?

 

[walrus]

Oh hell yeah. Just be glad yours isn’t installed 1/4 mile from the Atlantic Ocean where, but for the presence of Floridians with lawn mowers, it would be a tropical jungle. I swear PVC rusts here if you leave it out overnight. I expect to replace ours every 4 years or so.

But the wife wants her 45 min showers, ya know?

I am within a 1/4 mile of ocean, just in cold Maine not warm Fla. I want to know why no DHW via solar. Seems like a no brainer in Fla. I've had 2 panels on my roof since the 90s, Maintenance has been minimal and it works to help with hot water load. Seems like you guys could do nearly 100%?

 

[Swansong]

The joys of an older home. Fortunately I've remodeled the entire 1st floor over the last 10-15 years and was able to put proper insulation in the walls, and replace the old, drafty doors and windows.

I'm really surprised by how well horsehair plaster insulates. When the house gets cold, it takes a long time to warm up. but it's really easy to maintain temperature.


But I totally need to replace my windows. And insulate the holes in the floors where the steam pipes come through.

 

[dxmnkd316]

So the plow took out the door on my mailbox. It's a ****ty mailbox. Decided to just buy a new one.

get everything installed on the mailbox, start mounting it to the post and realize, the MFer cracked the primary post too. Great. Just fucking great. Glad we don't have two feed of ice pack around the mailboxes and about two months until it thaws. Goddamnit.

Follow-up

(I'm feeling kind of stupid but since I've never once experienced this in my life, whatever)

It's perfectly acceptable to just buy a post, right? I don't have a miter saw but I don't see any reason to turn what could be a $30 project into a $530 project.
THis is what normal people do, right?


Edit: I'm assuming this is also the shittiest selection of wood because it's so cheap. But as long as it lasts several years, whatever. Just hoping there isn't concrete to dig up. What a pain in the ass.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Follow-up

(I'm feeling kind of stupid but since I've never once experienced this in my life, whatever)

It's perfectly acceptable to just buy a post, right? I don't have a miter saw but I don't see any reason to turn what could be a $30 project into a $530 project.
THis is what normal people do, right?


Edit: I'm assuming this is also the ****tiest selection of wood because it's so cheap. But as long as it lasts several years, whatever. Just hoping there isn't concrete to dig up. What a pain in the ***.

I don't see why you couldn't just buy a new post... It shouldn't be that expensive...

Also, have you contacted the Town/County/Whomever plows for you? They likely have a fund set up for this exact thing.... About 10 years ago my parents had their mailbox taken out. They called the Village and were basically told to send in pictures. After receiving them, they were told to get receipts from Lowes for the fix, and were fully compensated for this. There was an upper limit, but was not a super close cut when all was said and done. My Dad was out the time of course, but still a small part of the entire thing.

 

[state of hockey]

Yeah, when MPLS plows messed up our timber landscaping by our garage they left a claim ticket. We wound up not using it because it was old and rotten anyway, and frankly looked better torn out.

 

[dxmnkd316]

I don't see why you couldn't just buy a new post... It shouldn't be that expensive...

Also, have you contacted the Town/County/Whomever plows for you? They likely have a fund set up for this exact thing.... About 10 years ago my parents had their mailbox taken out. They called the Village and were basically told to send in pictures. After receiving them, they were told to get receipts from Lowes for the fix, and were fully compensated for this. There was an upper limit, but was not a super close cut when all was said and done. My Dad was out the time of course, but still a small part of the entire thing.

Thanks for the heads up. I had looked at the rules for that and it stipulates that the box itself must be struck by the plow blade, it must not protrude over the curb, and if it's the snow that breaks it, you're SOL. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure the door fell open and the plow struck the door. My mailbox is in the middle of six other boxes, none of which were damaged. :-(

Yeah, i figured it was what normal people do. Just felt kind of stupid because it's not something that comes up very often and part of me feels weird about buying one instead of just getting a 4x4 and making one. But whatever, I suppose it's like changing your own oil. Nice you can do it yourself, others have focused on other skills.

 

[unofan]

Follow-up

(I'm feeling kind of stupid but since I've never once experienced this in my life, whatever)

It's perfectly acceptable to just buy a post, right? I don't have a miter saw but I don't see any reason to turn what could be a $30 project into a $530 project.
THis is what normal people do, right?


Edit: I'm assuming this is also the ****tiest selection of wood because it's so cheap. But as long as it lasts several years, whatever. Just hoping there isn't concrete to dig up. What a pain in the ***.

Jesus Christ, of course it is. Yes it's what normal people do. You're not less of a man because you didn't personally chop down the tree and singlehandedly mill it into a freaking mailbox post.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Jesus Christ, of course it is. Yes it's what normal people do. You're not less of a man because you didn't personally chop down the tree and singlehandedly mill it into a freaking mailbox post.

lol I mean, there is a shitty pine tree in the yard I should probably take out :-D

 

[French Rage]

If you didn't personally mine and process the ore used to make the metal in the saw, you're a fucking pussy.

 

[BassAle]

Uh, oh. Now you done it - made me go and do some calculations.

Say you take a 10 minute shower at 2.5 GPM (typical) of 120F water, and your water supply comes into your house at 70 F. The energy used to heat those 25 gallons of water by 70F is 10,000 BTU.

Now, if your hot water heater is 6 ft tall and 2 ft in diameter and has an insulation R-value of 24, then the rate of heat loss (to your 70F house) would be (6 * 2* pi) * 50 / 24 = 78 BTU/hr. So for your hot water heater to lose as much heat as you use in a single, 10 minute shower would take 127 hours - more than 5 days.

That right there should convince you that your hot water energy bill is driven by usage and not maintaining the temperature of the hot water heater. But in case you're still not convinced:

On a weekly basis, if you take a 10 min shower every day, you'd be paying for 70,000 BTUs to heat water "initially" and for 78*168 = 18470 BTU to maintain it, for a total of 116K.

Now, you can eliminate the 18470 maintenance BTUs by going tankless, but if that tankless water heater tempts you to add just 2 minutes to each shower, then you won't reduce - you'll break even.

If you have a wife and 3 teenage daughters, so that your nominal weekly usage is 7*5*10 = 350 minutes of showering, then your break-even is at a whopping 10 min 22 seconds per shower.

We currently have tankless. Previous house had a tank. The tank could recover as fast as as you used the water, and therefore did not limit the duration of anyone's shower. So going from a tank to on demand system had no effect on the length of showers.

And i wish the water was coming into my house at 70F! It's more like 45F in the winter.

That right there should convince you that your hot water energy bill is driven by usage and not maintaining the temperature of the hot water heater

I don't dispute that, but I do dispute that tankless necessarily results in consuming more hot water because in my experience it has not.

 

[BassAle]

Yeah, the nightmare stories I've seen where "Oh, part XYZ failed and you can't really service it so they make you send in your unit to prove it defective and they'll send you a new one". Given the supply chain issues now, I'm opting for simplicity. Or efficient and complicated with a simple backup (like keeping my non-smart thermostat in case the ecobee takes a dump).

we have a combination system (combined boiler for hydronic heat and on demand hot water heater). It's been no problem to service. This one was manufactured in New Brunswick, Canada so right next door to me. We did have to wait a few weeks for a replacement part once, due to pandemic supply chain issues, but the new part was still functioning (just not as efficiently) until we could get the replacement.

 

[BassAle]

My wife wasn't thrilled either until she started sleeping better with a cold room and warm blankets. We more or less sleep nordic style where she has a couple extra blankets under the main comforter, at least in the winter. I sleep warm and basically get zero sleep if the room is at 70+.


We did compromise up from my original of like 63-64. It would have killed her orchids since our thermostat is placed in the hallway which is in the dead center of the house across from the bathroom where there's a vent point towards it. Which very roughly looks like this (the bathroom on the main level is shared between master and hallway). Anyways, the thermostat is stupid because it heats up before everything else does. One more reason we're getting the Ecobee which has multiroom controls.

we keep the (non-smart) thermostat in the master suite to 63 -- if it's much more than that we have trouble sleeping. The other zones are controlled by Nest thermostats and are set on 70 during the day (we both work from home) and the wife still occasionally complains being cold!

We have three heating zones for the main heating system, plus supplemental heat from a heat pump with two indoor exchangers (one in the open living/dining/kitchen area which also has a loft/balcony area overlooking it that the non master bedrooms are accessed from), the other in the bonus room over the garage. Basically the heat pump thermostats stay on 70 all the time, and the Nests go down to 62 at night / when we aren't home and up to 70 while we're awake. In the dead of winter the heat pump can't quite keep the main living area uniformly at 70 so when the Nest kicks on in the morning it just has to make up the difference. The heat pump is the only heat in the garage bonus room (which is a fairly large room) and it's more than adequate there (had the bonus room piped to connect to the boiler when we built the house, but then after we finished the space we were pretty happy with just the heat pump).

 

[BassAle]

So the plow took out the door on my mailbox. It's a ****ty mailbox. Decided to just buy a new one.

get everything installed on the mailbox, start mounting it to the post and realize, the MFer cracked the primary post too. Great. Just fucking great. Glad we don't have two feed of ice pack around the mailboxes and about two months until it thaws. Goddamnit.

One winter I had my mailbox taken out 5 times. Most of the time it just ripped the mailbox off the post and dented it up a bit and I could repair it. Occasionally it would obliterate the mailbox. One time I had to spend an hour digging through a snowbank to find the mailbox (which still had mail in it). One time it ripped the horizontal arm off the post (4x4 pressure treated). There was 2 feet of snow on the ground, plus the ground was well frozen. I was able to put the post back together and use some huge metal T brackets to reinforce the post.

One of those storms, within a mile of my house I counted at least a dozen destroyed mailboxes. Not sure if the plow driver was incompetent or drunk.

I hate having a mailbox. I also live on a private road, and USPS won't deliver on it, so all our mailboxes are on the main road. That's one thing I miss about my previous suburban home with a walking mail route. So much easier having them bring the mail right up to my door and dropping it in the mail slot...

 

[dxmnkd316]

The tank could recover as fast as as you used the water

What in the good god did you use to heat it? A blast furnace?