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The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

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Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

AnchorsAway said:
15 years ago is more recent than 30 plus years ago is it not??? I realize the following would not necessarily figure into a mathematical formula so i guess the argument that this thread may not be the ideal place to debate this is valid, but better competition, more dominating teams, better players to come out of said "dynasty"...If you would like to message me I will gladly chat with anyone and everyone who wants to respectfully discuss the merits of LSSU vs. MTU as it relates to their pace in the annals of college hockey
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BC won three in the 2000's. Two of those with a 16 team field. Most of them are more recent than any from Michigan, Minnesota, UND, or DU. Therefore, they should be above them.

See where I am going with this?
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Brenthoven said:
While I have to say that I currently consider MTU to be very much in the lower rankings....all-time as a whole they deserve to be up there. Like FS23 said, they'll continue to fall with each bad season.

And to use an age-old argument, back in the day when only 4 made the tourney, there is assumably higher talent (due to less programs), and therefore equally as tough, if not tougher, to make said tourney. In other words, the more programs there are, the more diluted the talent available for a team.
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NCAA players picked in the NHL Draft during the years MTU won the NCAA title: 1962: no draft 1965: 0 1975: 46
NCAA players picked in the NHL Draft during the years LSSU won the NCAA title: 1988:41 1992: 9 1994: 6

If there was higher talent in the NCAA during the years the Huskies won the title than the year the Lakers won the title than the top professional hockey league in the history of modern civilization certainly wasn't aware of it....
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

state of hockey said:
BC won three in the 2000's. Two of those with a 16 team field. Most of them are more recent than any from Michigan, Minnesota, UND, or DU. Therefore, they should be above them.

See where I am going with this?
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Comparing apples to oranges, MTU and LSSU have the same number of NCAA titles and tournament appearances...I know for a fact that BC has less titles than all of the teams you mentioned and although I do not know for a fact, I would assume that most (if not all) of the teams you mentioned also have more NCCA tourney appearances than BC...not the same comparison
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

AnchorsAway said:
NCAA players picked in the NHL Draft during the years MTU won the NCAA title: 1962: no draft 1965: 0 1975: 46
NCAA players picked in the NHL Draft during the years LSSU won the NCAA title: 1988:41 1992: 9 1994: 6

If there was higher talent in the NCAA during the years the Huskies won the title than the year the Lakers won the title than the top professional hockey league in the history of modern civilization certainly wasn't aware of it....
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Please stop making arguments. We're over 400 posts into this thread and you're the first person to be insistent about being terrible at making them.

There were 11 picks '65. Not rounds... picks. You're not even comparing apples to oranges anymore, this is apples to sandwiches.
 
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Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Rhett said:
Please stop making arguments. We're over 400 posts into this thread and your the first person to be insistent about being terrible at making them.

There were 11 picks '65. Not rounds... picks. You're not even comparing apples to oranges anymore, this is apples to sandwiches.
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Good stuff and you beat me too it. This guy can make his own rankings. He is the first guy to cry and wet his pants in this thread.
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Rhett said:
Please stop making arguments. We're over 400 posts into this thread and your the first person to be insistent about being terrible at making them.

There were 11 picks '65. Not rounds... picks. You're not even comparing apples to oranges anymore, this is apples to sandwiches.
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lol ok pal, show me where i said there were 11 rounds in '65
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

AnchorsAway said:
lol ok pal, show me where i said there were 11 rounds in '65
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If I make a good argument for why LSSU should be ahead of MTU, will you go away? I have the skills you lack. Please... just give me the authority and incentive to use them.
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

AnchorsAway said:
NCAA players picked in the NHL Draft during the years MTU won the NCAA title: 1962: no draft 1965: 0 1975: 46
NCAA players picked in the NHL Draft during the years LSSU won the NCAA title: 1988:41 1992: 9 1994: 6

If there was higher talent in the NCAA during the years the Huskies won the title than the year the Lakers won the title than the top professional hockey league in the history of modern civilization certainly wasn't aware of it....
Click to expand...

What the **** are you trying to prove with this useless stat?

Please do us all a favor and quick posting in this thread.
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

darker98 said:
Good stuff and you beat me too it. This guy can make his own rankings. He is the first guy to cry and wet his pants in this thread.
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I already acknowledged that this thread wasn't the best place to make my argument, read the whole thread, I've already given the creator of the rankings props for taking the time to figure out and post these rankings and i stand by that, my point is that numbers and stats alone don't necessarily paint the whole picture, especially when it comes to two teams as close as MTU and LSSU, it takes nothing away from MTU and I certainly wouldn't make the argument that LSSU's place in history is substantially better but I do think it is slightly better...I realize this is viewed as splitting hairs to some but after all this is a sport's fans forum, if this isn't a place to talk about something like this then where is?? Anyway's it's all in good fun and I congratulate both the Huskies and the Lakers in making NCAA hockey's all time 12 pack!!
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

AnchorsAway said:
go.
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Here goes:

"While MTU and LSSU have achieved similar levels of success during their respective time in NCAA I, both winning 3 titles, it is significant that LSSU has accomplished this in a much shorter period of time. LSSU did not compete in an NCAA conference until the 1971-1972 inaugural CCHA season and maintained a mixed NAIA schedule, continuing to contest their postseasons with that organization until 1973-1974. MTU's history in the NCAA and its de facto forerunners dates back to 1919 and they have been eligible for inclusion in every NCAA tournament field to date.

The relatively small statistical difference between the two programs according to the current formula, despite the disparity in opportunity, really brings into question MTU's status as a "Better" program historically. As it stands, it appears there is no penalty for having a poor season. In fact, it appears that even a poor season could have still yielded a few opportunities for older, less successful programs, to distance themselves from younger programs, due to converting additional opportunities to defeat programs who have won NCAA titles and accumulate other sheer counting statistics. A penalty structure for poor seasons could rectify this problem."

Now get out of this thread.
 
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Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

AnchorsAway said:
"10 NCAA appearances, all of which have resulted in frozen four appearances".... not saying much since for 9 of their 10 appearances only 4 teams made the tournament, and in the 10th only 6 teams made it....I realize it says a lot that they were one of the few teams that made those smaller tournaments but when you're talking about the road to the championship, LSSU's runs in 8 and 12 team tournaments wins out, not to mention they were more recent and include the biggest margin of victory in an NCAA hockey title game in 50 years, with all things in the championship and ncaa appearance categories being equal, plus the fact that Tech has 2 winning seasons in the last 30 years, I'm inclined to think LSSU should come out on top
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They are so close that it would not surprise me if LSSU passed MTU this season. If Cornell goes on a run as they are wont to, they could pass both. In any case, I am sure that FS23 did not design his algorithm specifically to place MTU above Lake State.

As to which of the two deserves the higher ranking, I really don't care.
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Ralph Baer said:
They are so close that it would not surprise me if LSSU passed MTU this season. If Cornell goes on a run as they are wont to, they could pass both.
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I'm already licking my chops... :)

If CCT's long run of consistency can place them above 4 teams with titles, then it does make sense that Cornell's history would be ranked right in line with the clear "bottoms" of the 3+ title club. I imagine that Maine will be next, but probably with a pretty significant jump in points - they will be much harder to pick off!

In perusing some of the other teams, I was a little surprised to see that CC has never won their league tournament. Clearly, FS23's formula underweights this category for CC to be ahead of Cornell (12 league titles). :)
 
Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

10. Colorado College
9. Maine
8. Michigan State
7. Boston College
6. Boston University
5. Wisconsin
4. Minnesota
3. Denver
2. North Dakota
1. Michigan
 
MTU > Ylae* > LSSU (MTU Jr College)

MTU > Ylae* > LSSU (MTU Jr College)

AnchorsAway said:
"10 NCAA appearances, all of which have resulted in frozen four appearances".... not saying much since for 9 of their 10 appearances only 4 teams made the tournament, and in the 10th only 6 teams made it....I realize it says a lot that they were one of the few teams that made those smaller tournaments but when you're talking about the road to the championship, LSSU's runs in 8 and 12 team tournaments wins out, not to mention they were more recent and include the biggest margin of victory in an NCAA hockey title game in 50 years, with all things in the championship and ncaa appearance categories being equal, plus the fact that Tech has 2 winning seasons in the last 30 years, I'm inclined to think LSSU should come out on top
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There are simple answers to these questions. First, LSSU is nothing more than a regional branch of MTU. So we owned you, literally. You only got to be a stand alone University because we let you*. Second, who cares if the field was 4 teams or 16 teams. Do you think they took the four worst teams when it was a four team field? I'm guessing not. Third, if you want to more heavily weight recent results, see October 9, 2010. Even in a season with 3 wins, we can woop LSSU. That's why LSSU is #12 and Tech is #11 because making the top 10 would be one nice thing we could have this year, but Tech can not have nice things...
And if you want me to rub salt in it, yeah, I rang the bell on the way to the parking lot.
;-)
Ryan J

* Much of the university's upbringings can be credited to Michigan College of Mining & Technology, which is now known as Michigan Technological University. The mining and technology college opened the Sault Ste. Marie Residence Center of the Michigan College of Mining & Technology, which was commonly shortened to Soo Tech. The original class consisted of 272 students. The institution was later renamed Lake Superior State College of Michigan Technological University in 1966. The college received autonomy from Michigan Tech. in 1970 and was known as Lake Superior State College until 1987, when the institution was granted university status.
Lake Superior State University :: Admissions :: LSSU History
 
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Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Fighting Sioux 23 said:
top10.jpg
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I'm going to reply with a picture... looks better that way. And I'll help the easterners out a little...

WETSTENRR BSIA!!!!!!

not sure how to really rank the top 10, but I'll throw it out...

10- Maine
9- CC
8- MSU
7- BC
6- Wisconsin
5- BU
4- Minny
3- DU
2- UND
1- Michigan..


Now, I want to comment about the CCHA teams that are on the list. And I'm just making observations...

I'll start with State. For sure, they have had a long history in the WCHA, but arguably, what has made them a great program was their excellence and consistency from ~1980 on. For the most part, one could easily say that their top 10 can be attrubuted to their CCHA carreer. Say 80/20 in that way.

Michigan, to me, is an interesting one. Without a doubt, their WCHA period was one of the best ever, and probably the driving force in why they are #1- the 7 titles between 1948 and 1964 (7 out of 17!). But lets assume that somehow, going back in time, they got 9 before '70- just on the assumption. Based on how it appears FS23 is weighing, I would bet that if UM was just an average team over the past 20 years- perhaps 10 appearences, and *maybe* even one of the 9 titles- I would bet that they would not be #1, and both DU and UND would be ahead of them. But, if not for Red's reign, there's no way that UM would be top 3. So let's put the WCHA/CCHA ratio at 60/40 in terms of importance- the last 20 years of consistency have really carried them.

FS23- is there any way that you are posting some of the data? I would really like to see the regular season comparison between DU, UND, and UM. Everybody seems to have had weak times- did they turn out to even out over the years?

Again, major props for the work.
 
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