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The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

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Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Old Pio said:
Put away your whistle and MYOFB.
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Up a little late tonight Old Man? :eek:

As Priceless deftly pointed out, I was correcting a Fishbreath analogy about the Civil War, a war I believe you served in (for the Confederacy, of course ;)).

However, I still challenge you to point out what you would do differently than what Obama is already doing, aside from your asinine suggestion that we send the Navy into the Black Sea, even though you want no US military involvement which either makes them sitting ducks or is a useless show of force that Putin will ignore. :rolleyes: Oh, I did like your Rambo suggestion however....
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Putin is baiting America. He wants us to send ships and put boots on the ground. In fact, he needs us to do exactly that, so he can paint it as a "War of Western Aggression" and further justify Russia's actions to "protect" their ethnic population in Crimea.

Much like these boards, we shouldn't feed the troll. ;) Instead, isolate them - kick them out of the G8, convince as many countries as possible not to buy their oil, and freeze their assets abroad. Then, Putin can print as many volumes of "Super Putin" :rolleyes: with American villains as he wants, and it won't matter as long as the czars and their pawns in Moscow are feeling the pinch financially.
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Putin is baiting America. He wants us to send ships and put boots on the ground.
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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to FadeToBlack&Gold again.


One idea we had was to send a trivial, token number of troops to Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Ukraine, merely for "training" purposes to work with the locals. Way too few to be serious, just enough to be symbolic, put them there just in case they might need to be "rescued" down the line. Use Putin's own logic against him.

We also need to reopen dialog with Poland and Hungary about placing missile defenses back. In retrospect it obviously was an error in judgment to unilaterally agree not to follow through on what he had promised them earlier.


More than anything else, I wish 0bama would just STOP TALKING! It's almost like, no matter what he says, Putin will do the opposite, merely for spite.
 
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Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Putin is baiting America. He wants us to send ships and put boots on the ground. In fact, he needs us to do exactly that, so he can paint it as a "War of Western Aggression" and further justify Russia's actions to "protect" their ethnic population in Crimea.

Much like these boards, we shouldn't feed the troll. ;) Instead, isolate them - kick them out of the G8, convince as many countries as possible not to buy their oil, and freeze their assets abroad. Then, Putin can print as many volumes of "Super Putin" :rolleyes: with American villains as he wants, and it won't matter as long as the czars and their pawns in Moscow are feeling the pinch financially.
Click to expand...

There's a larger point here to make that I somewhat side with the righties on instead of my fellow lefties, and its the question of energy independence. Everyone would like the US to be energy independent from the greens to the coal industry. It looks like we're well on our way. My philosophy takes it to the next level: energy dominance, baby!

While this does no good in the short term, and its been stated in a recent article that Ukraine has no capacity to accept natural gas shipments even if the US was in the exporting business, longer term I want this country to have a vice like grip on energy production, so much so that you can force the squishy Europeans to do the right thing on sanctions, and punish Putin's kleptocracy by shutting down the one thing of worth (aside from vodka) that his country produces. Cut his energy exports and Vlady will do whatever we please. The trick is to be able to do that without harming our allies who depend on Russian energy exports.

So I would approve Keystone, not because it will drop oil prices one iota, but because it ensures we control Canadian oil. I would frack the entire Rust Belt because that area can't get much worse anyway. I would go crazy on renewable energy as the US should be getting as much of its power generation, etc as possible from these sources, while simultaneously screwing our enemies and rewarding our friends with a robust export scheme for oil and natural gas and frankly coal. Do this and not only irrational nuts like Putin but more clever leaders like the Communist dictatorship in China will have to play ball with the United States as they produce little of their own energy needs.
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Rover said:
Up a little late tonight Old Man? :eek:

As Priceless deftly pointed out, I was correcting a Fishbreath analogy about the Civil War, a war I believe you served in (for the Confederacy, of course ;)).

However, I still challenge you to point out what you would do differently than what Obama is already doing, aside from your asinine suggestion that we send the Navy into the Black Sea, even though you want no US military involvement which either makes them sitting ducks or is a useless show of force that Putin will ignore. :rolleyes: Oh, I did like your Rambo suggestion however....
Click to expand...

If it's a "asinine" to send the Navy into the Black Sea, you better get on the blower to Neville.
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Rover said:
There's a larger point here to make that I somewhat side with the righties on instead of my fellow lefties, and its the question of energy independence. Everyone would like the US to be energy independent from the greens to the coal industry. It looks like we're well on our way. My philosophy takes it to the next level: energy dominance, baby!

While this does no good in the short term, and its been stated in a recent article that Ukraine has no capacity to accept natural gas shipments even if the US was in the exporting business, longer term I want this country to have a vice like grip on energy production, so much so that you can force the squishy Europeans to do the right thing on sanctions, and punish Putin's kleptocracy by shutting down the one thing of worth (aside from vodka) that his country produces. Cut his energy exports and Vlady will do whatever we please. The trick is to be able to do that without harming our allies who depend on Russian energy exports.

So I would approve Keystone, not because it will drop oil prices one iota, but because it ensures we control Canadian oil. I would frack the entire Rust Belt because that area can't get much worse anyway. I would go crazy on renewable energy as the US should be getting as much of its power generation, etc as possible from these sources, while simultaneously screwing our enemies and rewarding our friends with a robust export scheme for oil and natural gas and frankly coal. Do this and not only irrational nuts like Putin but more clever leaders like the Communist dictatorship in China will have to play ball with the United States as they produce little of their own energy needs.
Click to expand...

First off, while Ukraine cannot accept NG shipments, our European allies can. And as long as there are no check valves in the pipeline, last time I checked the natural gas can flow in either direction in the pipeline. So...ship the LNG to Western Europe and flow it backwards to Ukraine.

As to whether we should frack the whole rust belt, I'm of a mixed mind on that. I live on the edge of the fracking zone in PA, and without proper environmental regulation, I can see a disaster happening. There are already problems. On the other hand, my company sells 80% of the specialized exchangers that are used to liquefy natural gas and are the only US manufacturer. If the US gets to export LNG like everyone is saying, my company will make a lot of money.
 
Re: The Global War on Terror 5.0: Putin on the Risk

Priceless said:
I wonder at what point the people of Western Europe stand up to him. After he invades Poland?
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Supposedly, by treaty, any attack on one NATO country is an attack on all, which would require a unifled response. No more leading from behind then!

NATO is committed to the principle that an attack against one or several members is considered as an attack against all. This is the principle of collective defence, which is enshrined in Article 5 of the Washington Treaty.
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Currently there are 28 member countries, only Latvia and Estonia abut Russia directly. But if Russia annexes Belarus, that might also put Lithuania and Poland in play.

EDIT: Norway also has a strip of land that abuts Russia in the far north; however, Putin's pretext so far has been "I have to protect ethnic Russians from oppression." With that rationale, don't be surprised to see Russian troops outside Brighton Beach!
 
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