The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

And JNACC - I am not disputing the fact that if you follow the CHL's guidelines and opt to start getting your education within 18 months of finishing your CHL career, you will get a scholarship. My point is, 32% of kids who are going thru the CHL aren't getting scholarship help.

Why? That's what I want to know. Are that many of these kids making the choice not to go to school, or are there other factors involved? Are kids having trouble getting accepted into a qualifying school in the 18 month grace period? Are kids not liking the options they have? Other factors?

68% of kids not getting scholarship is a lot of kids.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Five year players in the CHL are pretty rare...you would have to come in as just one of a maximum of 4 16 year old players per roster and then land one of just 3 over-age (20 yr old) spots. The vast majority play only 4 years. Furthermore, if you did play 5 years in the league you would be guaranteed 5 years of educational money.

Your link was by a WCHA Blogger (Chris Dilkes), sorry but not a very reputable source.

I believe you can earn more scholarship money than years played. One of the CHL supporters posted that in the linked thread.

And Chris was quoting a source in his article.

 

[jnacc]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

I believe you can earn more scholarship money than years played. One of the CHL supporters posted that in the linked thread.

And Chris was quoting a source in his article.

You can negotiate a better package in terms of what will be covered for every year played but there is no package that will give you 5,6 or 7 years of paid schooling for only 4 years of playing.

Chris was quoting a reporter who, like you, speculated on the number but Chris being Chris (an avowed CHL hater/basher) ran with it and tried to pass it off as gospel. If I had to speculate on the numbers, I'd put it around 45%....why do 55% choose to do something else, you'd have to ask them. The CHL basically ensures that you will graduate high school (they provide academic advisors and tutors to make sure of it...I wonder if the NAHL or USHL does the same??) but it is a players choice as to whether they enroll in college or not. The CHL cannot force them to do so.
You are insinuating that by somehow playing in the CHL, your desire for college some how lessens but you have no proof of that. Does the military some how warp our troops minds so that less than 50 % actually tap into their education benefits?? I think not and you are trying to see something that is not there....the CHL, offers its players the opportunity to advance towards a paid degree, much like Minnesota High School hockey does, with the difference being that the CHL will pay for it.

If you are so concerned with players education, then why not look closer to home. How does the USHL fare....sure they send 150 to 200 players off to the NCAA ranks every year but how many of those players are actually on scholarships? How many are actually paying out of pocket to play in the NCAA? One step further, does anybody really know the true graduation rate of NCAA players. Sure the NCAA measures how many players are on track to graduate (within a 6 year period mind you!) but how many actually do. Hell, lets even go further for the WELFARE of the players (this I assume is what it is about right). How many actually graduate and land jobs in their field of study compared to the numbers that either don't graduate or get their degree and then squander it by playing 4 or 5 years of minor hockey, ensuring that the value of their degree is significantly cheapened due to being out of the field of study for so long.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

Chris was quoting a reporter who, like you, speculated on the number but Chris being Chris (an avowed CHL hater/basher) ran with it and tried to pass it off as gospel.

So, a reported "speculated" on the number of players who don't receive scholarship benefit and randomly chose 32%???

Come on. Sorry, I don't buy that.

 

[jnacc]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

So, a reported "speculated" on the number of players who don't receive scholarship benefit and randomly chose 32%???

Come on. Sorry, I don't buy that.

Oh yes, because we all know that all reporters have impeccable reputations and never try and spin a story or have an axe to grind and would never fudge numbers.....by the way, how's that reporter doing today who with 100% certainty wrote that Jacob Trouba was offered 100k to play for the Kitchener Rangers but then the paper had to issue a retraction when threatened with a law suit?

 

[JDUBBS1280]

You are insinuating that by somehow playing in the CHL, your desire for college some how lessens but you have no proof of that. Does the military some how warp our troops minds so that less than 50 % actually tap into their education benefits?? I think not and you are trying to see something that is not there....the CHL, offers its players the opportunity to advance towards a paid degree, much like Minnesota High School hockey does, with the difference being that the CHL will pay for it.

I'm not "insinuating" anything. I would like to know why 32% of players don't receive scholarship benefits. And Minnesota High Schools do pay for kids education in high school. Or at least our taxes do. But in reality we aren't comparing Minnesota High Schools to the CHL, we are comparing the educational options the CHL and NCAA offer.

Fact is, 100% of the kids who play NCAA hockey work towards an education and it appears as though an alarming number of CHL kids do not.

I would like to know why. I understand that it is the kid's option to use the scholarship within 18 months of finishing their CHL career. But I don't know if there are other factors preventing kids from being able to do so.

 

[Patman]

I don't think the college numbers are indicative of what the CHL offers. I think it is more revealing that most kids who chose the CHL route were probably not college material in the first place. Everyone in the military is offered education money but few actually use it % wise anyway.

Even then, there are probably a healthy share that could be. That being said, its always harder to go to school later in life, especially when you don't consider it an encouraged priority. Culture often begets success

 

[JDUBBS1280]

If you are so concerned with players education, then why not look closer to home. How does the USHL fare....sure they send 150 to 200 players off to the NCAA ranks every year but how many of those players are actually on scholarships? How many are actually paying out of pocket to play in the NCAA? One step further, does anybody really know the true graduation rate of NCAA players. Sure the NCAA measures how many players are on track to graduate (within a 6 year period mind you!) but how many actually do. Hell, lets even go further for the WELFARE of the players (this I assume is what it is about right). How many actually graduate and land jobs in their field of study compared to the numbers that either don't graduate or get their degree and then squander it by playing 4 or 5 years of minor hockey, ensuring that the value of their degree is significantly cheapened due to being out of the field of study for so long.

You continue to misrepresent what I am saying. I am not saying NCAA hockey is for everyone, or that the USHL\NCAA route is necessarily better for everyone.

What I am saying is that kids should keep their options open until they know what their options are. Kids that go to the CHL at 16 may not know which NCAA schools are interested and what they are willing to offer. And it appears a large number of kids don't understand the parameters of the CHL's scholarship program (hence the 32%).

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Oh yes, because we all know that all reporters have impeccable reputations and never try and spin a story or have an axe to grind and would never fudge numbers.....by the way, how's that reporter doing today who with 100% certainty wrote that Jacob Trouba was offered 100k to play for the Kitchener Rangers but then the paper had to issue a retraction when threatened with a law suit?

I never said all reporters have impeccable reputations. I just think it is odd that someone would just randomly choose 32% if they are going to approximate a percentage. If that were the case, I'd expect him to say 30% or 35%. I think it is far more likely that is a real figure that came from somewhere. And if it is untrue, I would be interested in seeing proof otherwise. And that would include the # of kids who did not receive scholarships, not just the number of scholarships kids did receive (for context).

 

[jnacc]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

I'm not "insinuating" anything. I would like to know why 32% of players don't receive scholarship benefits. And Minnesota High Schools do pay for kids education in high school. Or at least our taxes do. But in reality we aren't comparing Minnesota High Schools to the CHL, we are comparing the educational options the CHL and NCAA offer.

Fact is, 100% of the kids who play NCAA hockey work towards an education and it appears as though an alarming number of CHL kids do not.

I would like to know why. I understand that it is the kid's option to use the scholarship within 18 months of finishing their CHL career. But I don't know if there are other factors preventing kids from being able to do so.

Do private prep schools pay for their players? Do public schools charge money? Does Minnesota High School hockey give its graduates money to attend college??

You keep using that 32 % number like it was handed down from the almighty himself rather than by some blogger referencing a story from some reporter...why don't you back that number up?? Again do you really believe that it is something that the CHL is doing to discourage its players from participating in college classes...if so, back it up rather than just spew numbers and meaningless questions as to "why this and why that"

Why have you avoided my other questions regarding the number of USHL players who getting partial scholarships (if any) or the true graduation rates of NCAA hockey players. What does working towards a degree mean other than taking general ed classes from sympathetic profs picked by the athletic department to make sure their "student" athletes make the grade? How many NCAA hockey grads are actually using their degrees?

Have you read any of the articles I posted? Have you no comment about what Ryan Kennedy wrote?

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Do private prep schools pay for their players? Do public schools charge money? Does Minnesota High School hockey give its graduates money to attend college??

All irrelevant to this conversation. We are comparing the educational options of the CHL and NCAA route.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

You keep using that 32 % number like it was handed down from the almighty himself rather than by some blogger referencing a story from some reporter...why don't you back that number up?? Again do you really believe that it is something that the CHL is doing to discourage its players from participating in college classes...if so, back it up rather than just spew numbers and meaningless questions as to "why this and why that"

And you are acting like everything that is reported is an absolute lie. Yes, I am giving a reporter the benefit of the doubt that that figure, which was reported five years ago and hasn't been challenged by the CHL, is accurate.

Do you have any proof that it is not?

 

[jnacc]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

All irrelevant to this conversation. We are comparing the educational options of the CHL and NCAA route.

And does not the Minnesota High School Hockey system constitute part of the NCAA route...how many players actually get scholarships by playing high school hockey in Minny...I'll bet you big money that it is far less than the number of CHL players who access their education money!

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Why have you avoided my other questions regarding the number of USHL players who getting partial scholarships (if any) or the true graduation rates of NCAA hockey players. What does working towards a degree mean other than taking general ed classes from sympathetic profs picked by the athletic department to make sure their "student" athletes make the grade? How many NCAA hockey grads are actually using their degrees?

Have you read any of the articles I posted? Have you no comment about what Ryan Kennedy wrote?

If I am missing points of yours, it's because you are posting really lengthy posts and I am typing on an iPhone. If you want answers to everything, be shorter or break your points down into multiple posts.

Though I did address that point of yours....

You continue to misrepresent what I am saying. I am not saying NCAA hockey is for everyone, or that the USHL\NCAA route is necessarily better for everyone.

What I am saying is that kids should keep their options open until they know what their options are. Kids that go to the CHL at 16 may not know which NCAA schools are interested and what they are willing to offer. And it appears a large number of kids don't understand the parameters of the CHL's scholarship program (hence the 32%).

I never said the USHL\NCAA route was perfect. I think kids should keep their options open until they know all their options. No reason to commit to CHL at 15-16 when you don't know what your NCAA options are yet.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

And does not the Minnesota High School Hockey system constitute part of the NCAA route...how many players actually get scholarships by playing high school hockey in Minny...I'll bet you big money that it is far less than the number of CHL players who access their education money!

It constitutes part of the NCAA and CHL route in most cases, and can constitute part of both routes in all cases if kids keep their options open until they know all their options

 

[jnacc]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

And you are acting like everything that is reported is an absolute lie. Yes, I am giving a reporter the benefit of the doubt that that figure, which was reported five years ago and hasn't been challenged by the CHL, is accurate.

Do you have any proof that it is not?

LOL...and where is your proof, one reporter and that's it? Surely there must be reams of documents in Minnesota about the evil empire known as the CHL...post the full article and we will judge it on its merit and see how that number was established, until then it is a meaningless number.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

LOL...and where is your proof, one reporter and that's it? Surely there must be reams of documents in Minnesota about the evil empire known as the CHL...post the full article and we will judge it on its merit and see how that number was established, until then it is a meaningless number.

Has the CHL disputed it like you so poignantly pointed out they did with the false reporting on the Trouba situation? If you have proof that the 32% number isn't accurate, I'd love to see it.

 

[jnacc]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

It constitutes part of the NCAA and CHL route in most cases, and can constitute part of both routes in all cases if kids keep their options open until they know all their options

Oh yeah, sure it constitutes both routes....just don't tell the Minnesota coach you're going to the CHL though!

Again, please explain (thus far you have been avoiding most of my questions) why you feel that players do not know what their options are? Does Minnesota Hockey keep their kids so much in the dark that they have not heard of the CHL visa vis the NCAA and the implications of both routes having on one another....heck most peewee aged kids here in Michigan are fully informed on the matter....what the hell is going on up there in the land of small lakes???

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Oh yeah, sure it constitutes both routes....just don't tell the Minnesota coach you're going to the CHL though!

Again, please explain (thus far you have been avoiding most of my questions) why you feel that players do not know what their options are? Does Minnesota Hockey keep their kids so much in the dark that they have not heard of the CHL visa vis the NCAA and the implications of both routes having on one another....heck most peewee aged kids here in Michigan are fully informed on the matter....what the hell is going on up there in the land of small lakes???

How many kids know the extent to which NCAA schools are interested in them at 15-16? Not many. Certainly not ANY Pewees - In Minnesota OR Michigan.

Again, misrepresenting what I say. By "options" I mean which schools are interested and what type of scholarships are available.

 

[jnacc]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

Has the CHL disputed it like you so poignantly pointed out they did with the false reporting on the Trouba situation? If you have proof that the 32% number isn't accurate, I'd love to see it.

I say God exists....you say prove it...I say prove he doesn't...that's circular logic my friend and it will get you no where....how are you so sure the CHL did not dispute it...can you prove they didn't? (See circular logic)

You stated a number gleamed off of one article written five years ago....five years in hockey is a lifetime first off and secondly if that is all you can find concerning the CHL education package and its participation rates, then your body of evidence is virtually non existent. One dubious source does not make a fact.