The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

[JDUBBS1280]

You and this thread are not going to give kids/parents that information, and neither is the thread on the high school forums.
If the parents/kids want that information, it is out there and if some of it is propaganda, it is up to them to decide who/what to believe, not you.

You're kidding right? Who do you think posts on that high school board? Almost exclusively parents. And I know for a fact that many parents post here too because I have interacted with many.

And WHERE did I EVER even insinuate that it was my role to make decisions in the lives of other people's children?? Seriously.

Why does this bother you so much? It's a great discussion to have in an otherwise slow period of the year if nothing else.

Lighten up Francis.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

Oh look, a parent on the MNHS Boards asking for advice on Family Advisors. We better not respond with advice because that would mean we are telling him what decisions he and his child should make!!!

<a href="http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31180">Question on Family Advisors</a>

 

[Deleted member 3166]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

What bothers me and everyone else is you.
We are sick of you.
What "discussion" are you thinking you are going to get here?
Everyone here is likely biased towards the NCAA route, this is an NCAA board.
And I'm sorry, if parents are reading these boards and making decisions for their kids based on what people and fans say on them, they are dumber than you are.
There is no point to this thread other than for you to pimp whatever agenda you feel you need to have, just like every other thread and post you make.

 

[Deleted member 3166]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

Oh look, a parent on the MNHS Boards asking for advice on Family Advisors. We better not respond with advice because that would mean we are telling him what decisions he and his child should make!!!

<a href="http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=31180">Question on Family Advisors</a>

Classic example of you being....well you.
Are there people out there who could give them good advice?
Sure.
Are some of them on that board?
Possibly.
Would I ever believe that anyone should listen to anything you say?
Not a chance.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

What bothers me and everyone else is you.
We are sick of you.
What "discussion" are you thinking you are going to get here?
Everyone here is likely biased towards the NCAA route, this is an NCAA board.
And I'm sorry, if parents are reading these boards and making decisions for their kids based on what people and fans say on them, they are dumber than you are.
There is no point to this thread other than for you to pimp whatever agenda you feel you need to have, just like every other thread and post you make.

Then be an adult and put me on ignore.

News Flash, this isn't your board. So until I break a rule and the powers to be put me on suspension, I'll be here. Talking hockey like EVERYONE else. So you can either continue to pout about it like a child (which has to be 1000 times more annoying than anything I could ever say), or you can ignore the discussions you don't have interest in.

BTW - The "agenda" comment was so wacko I don't even know how to, or care to, properly respond to it.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Classic example of you being....well you.
Are there people out there who could give them good advice?
Sure.
Are some of them on that board?
Possibly.
Would I ever believe that anyone should listen to anything you say?
Not a chance.

No one is forcing you to listen to anyone young man

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

You're kidding right? Who do you think posts on that high school board? Almost exclusively parents. And I know for a fact that many parents post here too because I have interacted with many.

Sure you have. Another one of those "I have proof but I'm not going to share it" items?


I haven't seen another person on here even mention that they have a kid in youth hockey (or HS hockey).

And I doubt that anyone who knows you from here would "interact" with you. Especially in regards to their kid or that kid's future.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

I am very interested in discussing this with anyone who genuinely wants to discuss this topic. Doesn't even have to pertain to Minnesota High School hockey. That was just the genisis for bringing the discussion up. However, really don't want to waste more time responding to the nonsense and hate.

I know the NCAA vs CHL battle is nothing new, but it is something I am not used to seeing in our backyard. So any experiences that anyone else has had that they can share (good or bad) would be very educational and much appreciated

 

[jnacc]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

722 out of how many? It says 545 awards went to players currently in the league. If that 722 is out of roughly 2,100 former players, than the 32% is still accurate.

Those numbers would be more meaningful in discrediting the figures I sourced if they included the number of kids who did NOT get scholarship help.

Thanks for taking the discussion seriously BTW

First off those kids who did not get scholarship help did not want the aid even though they were entitled to it; they simply chose (for their own reasons) not to use it. Do not spin it as the CHL screwed them over by withholding money from them.

How did you come up with 2100 former players?There are 60 CHL teams with a roster size of say 23 per team. There is a 6 to 7 player turn-over graduation rate a year. So you have 390 graduating from the league every year. A 4 year co-hort would have 1560 former grads. 722 would represent a 46% participation rate.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

First off those kids who did not get scholarship help did not want the aid even though they were entitled to it; they simply chose (for their own reasons) not to use it. Do not spin it as the CHL screwed them over by withholding money from them.

How did you come up with 2100 former players?There are 60 CHL teams with a roster size of say 23 per team. There is a 6 to 7 player turn-over graduation rate a year. So you have 390 graduating from the league every year. A 4 year co-hort would have 1560 former grads. 722 would represent a 46% participation rate.

Not true. You have to use the aid within a certain amount of time (months) after finishing your CHL play or you lose it.

And there were allegedly 545 scholarships handed out to players currently playing in the CHL, so you tell me how their numbers work out. I'm as puzzled as you are.

I think it is far more likely that there were 1,400 kids (former players) who didn't receive scholarship benefit in the time period that 722 kids did receive scholarship.

Bottom line: Without knowing how many kids didn't get scholarships, it is hard to put the 722 scholarships into perspective.

 

[jnacc]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

Not true. You have to use the aid within a certain amount of time (months) after finishing your CHL play or you lose it.

And there were allegedly 545 scholarships handed out to players currently playing in the CHL, so you tell me how their numbers work out. I'm as puzzled as you are.

I think it is far more likely that there were 1,400 kids (former players) who didn't receive scholarship benefit in the time period that 722 kids did receive scholarship.

Bottom line: Without knowing how many kids didn't get scholarships, it is hard to put the 722 scholarships into perspective.

The 545 current player number represents those that graduated from high school and are taking college courses on the CHL's dime while still playing in the CHL. The 722 figure represents those who have aged out of the league and are now taking college courses.

What isn't true? Sure you have 18 months to use your scholarship package but in that 18 months you can sign a pro contract and play in pro league (below the NHL/AHL level) and still be able to access that money. Is the NCAA that accommodating??

You think there 1400 players who didn't receive scholarships? Well I think Michigan trumps Minnesota as a state....so friggen what....I thought we were trying to deal in the facts that we have here. You just picked 1400 players to add to the 722 out of a hat, at least I used some reasoning for my 1560 former players.....

 

[JDUBBS1280]

The 545 current player number represents those that graduated from high school and are taking college courses on the CHL's dime while still playing in the CHL. The 722 figure represents those who have aged out of the league and are now taking college courses.

What isn't true? Sure you have 18 months to use your scholarship package but in that 18 months you can sign a pro contract and play in pro league (below the NHL/AHL level) and still be able to access that money. Is the NCAA that accommodating??

You think there 1400 players who didn't receive scholarships? Well I think Michigan trumps Minnesota as a state....so friggen what....I thought we were trying to deal in the facts that we have here. You just picked 1400 players to add to the 722 out of a hat, at least I used some reasoning for my 1560 former players.....

What I don't understand is why you can't believe 545 current players have received scholarships, and there are 722 aged out players that are receiving scholarships, but you can't believe there are 1400 other players out there who didn't receive scholarships.

Now, I don't know exactly how many players out there aren't receiving scholarship money, but I do know as of 5 years ago only 32% of kids were taking advantage of the scholarship program.

Not sure what, if anything, has changed between now and then to increase the number of kids who are able to take advantage (something I find hard to believe), but providing me with the number of kids who are receiving scholarship support without providing me with either the total number of kids to go throu the CHL during that period or the number of kids who didn't get scholarship support to put that number into perspective doesn't prove much to me.

And again, I'm not saying the CHL or it's scholarship program are "bad" per say, but I do think that kids and parents need all the info. Like it or not, it is alarming when you find out that only 32% of CHL kids are actually getting scholarship help (their choice or not). It makes me wonder how many kids actually understood how the scholarship program works when they made their commitment, and just another reason why I think kids should wait until they are older to make a decision on which route they should choose.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

How did you come up with 2100 former players?There are 60 CHL teams with a roster size of say 23 per team. There is a 6 to 7 player turn-over graduation rate a year. So you have 390 graduating from the league every year. A 4 year co-hort would have 1560 former grads. 722 would represent a 46% participation rate.

More direct response to this. I don't believe (in fact I am pretty sure) the CHL's scholarship program is limited to just 4 years worth of aid, and the average time to graduation is more than 4 years (especially if kids are still playing hockey while studying). So, it is very conceivable that there are more than just 4 years worth of aged out players currently receiving scholarship age.

My question is, how many during that same time period (whatever that is) didn't receive scholarship aid? It was 68% 5 years ago.

 

[bucky15]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

Who's the spin doctor again?

 

[hockeykrazy]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

I don't think the college numbers are indicative of what the CHL offers. I think it is more revealing that most kids who chose the CHL route were probably not college material in the first place. Everyone in the military is offered education money but few actually use it % wise anyway.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

I don't think the college numbers are indicative of what the CHL offers. I think it is more revealing that most kids who chose the CHL route were probably not college material in the first place. Everyone in the military is offered education money but few actually use it % wise anyway.

It's an interesting point, but not sure how true that is. I am sure quite a few kids who don't receive scholarship benefits are "college material. I just think it is hard for some kids to give up the dream of making it to the NHL. A lot of kids don't end their hockey careers when they age out of the CHL at 20.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Who's the spin doctor again?

Engage in the discussion and elaborate, or get ignored.

 

[jnacc]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

What I don't understand is why you can't believe 545 current players have received scholarships, and there are 722 aged out players that are receiving scholarships, but you can't believe there are 1400 other players out there who didn't receive scholarships.
.

545 players represent the 18-20 year olds that graduated high school and are still in the league, out of a total playing population of say 1420 (not counting affiliated players who are called up from the midget or Junior A ranks). This number represents over 1/3rd of the league. You can expect that 350 of those players age out or do not return for an over-age spot. That is about 1400 players in a 4 year college co-hort. In order to get to your number of 2122 ex players, a total of 9 players would have to age out every year from every team in the CHL. That number is to high. Most teams bring in about 6-7 rookies to replace 6-7 non-returning core players. (Again, I'm not talking about affiliate players who came up and played less than a dozen games).

And again, I'm not saying the CHL or it's scholarship program are "bad" per say, but I do think that kids and parents need all the info. Like it or not, it is alarming when you find out that only 32% of CHL kids are actually getting scholarship help (their choice or not). It makes me wonder how many kids actually understood how the scholarship program works when they made their commitment, and just another reason why I think kids should wait until they are older to make a decision on which route they should choose.

First off, is that 32% number set in stone or was it concocted by some reporter off the cuff...you say you want back-up to the numbers, well please back this number up. A pro NCAA hockey blog citing some reporter doesn't really cut it as an impeccable source. Secondly, how could the kids who signed the contract with the help of both parents (legally required to make the contract valid) and agents (most kids who play in the CHL have em) not fully understand what they were doing? If your child had the option, wouldn't you bend over back-wards to ensure that he was going to be taken care of properly and read over the contact about a dozen times. Do you think the parents of CHL players are all idiots...as are the agents that represent them??? I'm sure the overwhelming majority of players fully understand what their options are prior to entering and exiting the CHL are.

We do have facts and the facts are that the CHL will provide you with the money to attend school while playing and give you money for every year you played after graduating...We can speculate as to what percentage do or do not use the packages but the fact is that in 2012 1248 players did use the money....and that is a fact. What also is a fact is that you can play pro hockey up to 18 months after leaving the league and then still go back to school on the CHL's dime...Here's a nice article for you to read from someone not named Chris Dilkes who's a pro NCAA blogger and CHLer hater, but rather a real hockey writer and neutral to boot!

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/48807-CHL-education-opponents-way-off-base.html

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

JNACC - This is worth repeating based on your last post.

More direct response to this. I don't believe (in fact I am pretty sure) the CHL's scholarship program is limited to just 4 years worth of aid, and the average time to graduation is more than 4 years (especially if kids are still playing hockey while studying). So, it is very conceivable that there are more than just 4 years worth of aged out players currently receiving scholarship age.

My question is, how many during that same time period (whatever that is) didn't receive scholarship aid? It was 68% 5 years ago.

And if you read the thread I linked in the OP, I sourced the article on page 1 of that thread where I got the 32% from.

 

[jnacc]

Re: The CHL Spin Doctors are trying to infiltrate MNHS Hockey

JNACC - This is worth repeating based on your last post.

Five year players in the CHL are pretty rare...you would have to come in as just one of a maximum of 4 16 year old players per roster and then land one of just 3 over-age (20 yr old) spots. The vast majority play only 4 years. Furthermore, if you did play 5 years in the league you would be guaranteed 5 years of educational money.

Your link was by a WCHA Blogger (Chris Dilkes), sorry but not a very reputable source.