The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

A revolver is a type of pistol, is it not? And is that not semi-automatic?

The hammer on a revolver has to be manually cocked each time before the next bullet is ready to fire. On a semi-automatic rifle like an AR, the exhaust from the bullet being fired simultaneously ejects the empty cartridge, and forces the next bullet from the clip into the firing chamber. It's about a 2-3 second difference between rounds, which does not seem like much, but it adds up. A revolver would have to be reloaded after 6-8 shots, which eats up a lot of seconds. With the AR, you just pop in a fresh clip.

In the end though, it's all relative and reactionary, just like the airport security theater. You ban the assault rifles and the next nutjob will just use pistols. Ban the pistols and they'll firebomb the school (or they might just do that anyway). Plus, there's going to be plenty of people who won't turn in their assault rifles once they are banned, and we'll just be waiting for the story that it was stolen, or sold underground to some friend that, years later, proceeded to go off the deep end.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

The hammer on a revolver has to be manually cocked each time before the next bullet is ready to fire. On a semi-automatic rifle like an AR, the exhaust from the bullet being fired simultaneously ejects the empty cartridge, and forces the next bullet from the clip into the firing chamber. It's about a 2-3 second difference between rounds, which does not seem like much, but it adds up. A revolver would have to be reloaded after 6-8 shots, which eats up a lot of seconds. With the AR, you just pop in a fresh clip.

In the end though, it's all relative and reactionary, just like the airport security theater. You ban the assault rifles and the next nutjob will just use pistols. Ban the pistols and they'll firebomb the school (or they might just do that anyway). Plus, there's going to be plenty of people who won't turn in their assault rifles once they are banned, and we'll just be waiting for the story that it was stolen, or sold underground to some friend that, years later, proceeded to go off the deep end.

Ummm, have you ever heard of a double action revolver???? I guarantee you that my S&W Model 686 does not have to have the hammer "cocked" each time you shoot.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

If a pistol (as with an assault weapon) can kill 60 people in a minute then it should also be banned. There is no purpose for this gun other than kill many people in a short period of time. And they have been used multiple times recently for this purpose. The Constitution does not guarentee the right to have any weapon they want.

A former D.C. prosecutor's comments on gun control:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324081704578235460300469292.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

Crime skyrocket nationwide during the period that it skyrocketed in DC. Oops, I guess the guys conclusions are wrong. More to the point, today New Orleans has triple the homicide rate of DC (58/100k vs. 17/100k inhabitants, wiki). Last I checked NO does not have a weapons ban.

No wonder. The author is a a lawyer and tabloid journalist. Bill, you'd be wise not to lend your cred to fox news sources.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Ummm, have you ever heard of a double action revolver???? I guarantee you that my S&W Model 686 does not have to have the hammer "cocked" each time you shoot.

I had not; I'm not as up-and-up on my handguns. Those were always strictly my dad's guns as a kid, and I've never had a use for anything other than a Winchester .270 and my 20 Gauge.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Does he have Lifelock? http://minutemennews.com/2013/01/su...obama-eligibility-challenge-on-february-15th/

Now we know is SSN!

 

[SteveP]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

moo

The hammer on a revolver has to be manually cocked each time before the next bullet is ready to fire. On a semi-automatic rifle like an AR, the exhaust from the bullet being fired simultaneously ejects the empty cartridge, and forces the next bullet from the clip into the firing chamber. It's about a 2-3 second difference between rounds, which does not seem like much, but it adds up. A revolver would have to be reloaded after 6-8 shots, which eats up a lot of seconds. With the AR, you just pop in a fresh clip.

In the end though, it's all relative and reactionary, just like the airport security theater. You ban the assault rifles and the next nutjob will just use pistols. Ban the pistols and they'll firebomb the school (or they might just do that anyway). Plus, there's going to be plenty of people who won't turn in their assault rifles once they are banned, and we'll just be waiting for the story that it was stolen, or sold underground to some friend that, years later, proceeded to go off the deep end.

As big blue says, a revolver is double-action. I carried a Smith & Wesson .38 for most of my career, along with two speed loaders. I could eject six shells and load six more in the time it would take a shooter to slap in a new clip and rack a round.

 

[unofan]

Semi-automatic is semi-automatic.....fully automatic is not semi-automatic. It really isn't that difficult to figure out, they even included pictures for those who aren't as bright!

So that means a pistol is the same as a rifle? Ok...someone didn't do so well on the analogies section of the SAT, did they?

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

So that means a pistol is the same as a rifle? Ok...someone didn't do so well on the analogies section of the SAT, did they?

Are you dense on purpose? They have the same action, semi-automatic.

A Honda Civic is not the same as a Chevy Silverado, but you can get them both with automatic transmissions, and they can get you to the same place in the same amount of time.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Are you dense on purpose? They have the same action, semi-automatic.

If you're comparing a pistol or a shotgun to a rifle as though they are all the same because they are all semi-automatic, then I might as well say semi-automatic and fully-automatic are the same because they all shoot projectiles. You don't get to group them by one characteristic to make a point and then complain when other people group them together by some other characteristic to make their own point.

As I said, comparing a rifle to a shotgun or pistol is disingenuous at best in this debate. If you want to delineate between military-style fully automatic rifles and your standard civillian semi-auto rifle, then fine. But acting as though any rifle is the equivalent of a Saturday Night Special is beyond pointless.

 

[pirate]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

A revolver is a type of pistol, is it not? And is that not semi-automatic?

as a younger man I knew this girl in the next town who was semi-automatic. I suspect we're talking about two different things though.

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

If a pistol (as with an assault weapon) can kill 60 people in a minute then it should also be banned. There is no purpose for this gun other than kill many people in a short period of time.

It depends on the operator. Many people do in fact use AR-15 "assault" type guns for hunting and target shooting competitions. They look scary, therefore, they must be banned.

If you're comparing a pistol or a shotgun to a rifle as though they are all the same because they are all semi-automatic, then I might as well say semi-automatic and fully-automatic are the same because they all shoot projectiles. You don't get to group them by one characteristic to make a point and then complain when other people group them together by some other characteristic to make their own point.

As I said, comparing a rifle to a shotgun or pistol is disingenuous at best in this debate. If you want to delineate between military-style fully automatic rifles and your standard civillian semi-auto rifle, then fine. But acting as though any rifle is the equivalent of a Saturday Night Special is beyond pointless.

He's saying the basic function is the same. One trigger pull will expel one bullet and load the next round into the chamber.

 

[unofan]

It depends on the operator. Many people do in fact use AR-15 "assault" type guns for hunting and target shooting competitions. They look scary, therefore, they must be banned.

He's saying the basic function is the same. One trigger pull will expel one bullet and load the next round into the chamber.

Yeah, and I'm saying that's a meaningless point.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Yeah, and I'm saying that's a meaningless point.

And you're wrong.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Yeah, and I'm saying that's a meaningless point.

No, it's definitely not. Unless you get rid of all guns that fit that basic description, you will not meaningfully affect the firepower available to cuckoo birds.

The only thing being discussed that will have any impact is limiting the magazine size, and even that impact will be small. The first 911 call from the school was at 9:35 am, and the cops weren't in the building until around 9:50 at the earliest (couldn't find a specific source, but the building was being swept by 10 am). Even if magazines were limited to 10 bullets, figure you can fire 1 bullet per second and it takes 10 seconds to reload (both very conservative), that's 450 shots you could theoretically fire in 15 minutes. In other words, reloading time is nearly irrelevant if a shooter is in a gun-free zone where he has plenty of time to accomplish his depravity. Forcing the shooter to reload only matters if there is ALSO someone with a weapon present who can take advantage of that break in the action.

Can someone please tell me how many lives would have been saved if his rifle didn't have a pistol grip?

 

[Bill]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

If a pistol (as with an assault weapon) can kill 60 people in a minute then it should also be banned. There is no purpose for this gun other than kill many people in a short period of time. And they have been used multiple times recently for this purpose. The Constitution does not guarentee the right to have any weapon they want.



Crime skyrocket nationwide during the period that it skyrocketed in DC. Oops, I guess the guys conclusions are wrong. More to the point, today New Orleans has triple the homicide rate of DC (58/100k vs. 17/100k inhabitants, wiki). Last I checked NO does not have a weapons ban.

No wonder. The author is a a lawyer and tabloid journalist. Bill, you'd be wise not to lend your cred to fox news sources.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Since NO doesn't have a weapons ban, we're not in a position to determine what the homicide rate would be there with vs without a ban, unlike the D.C. situation. You also conveniently picked a city with the highest homicide rate in the country for a flawed comparison. To say that the crime rate skyrocketed nationwide is stretching it quite a bit. Yes, it was rising but it's not like it was even close to doubling, whereas the the homicide rate in D.C. much more than doubled after the weapons ban.

More on gun control from Thomas Sowell http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell121812.php3#.UPf-Fyc8CSo

 

[manurespreader]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

My shotgun is semi automatic as well.
However, if you use it to hunt migratory waterfowl it is limited to a magazine capacity of three. So most of them come that way, however some people buy these add on round clips like go on a thompson, so vastly increase the size.
Really then the issue is the magazine capacity, secondly, with a pistol, most people can't hit squat at a distance of more than 20 ft so there's that.
If you ask me, preventing someone who is mentally ill from obtaining weapons is the issue, for the most part though it is quite complex in total.

In the new town case, even a trained officer would have trouble taking down the shooter as they had the kevlar vest on, so the areas of the body that were vulnerable were quite small, any joe doaks could not have done the job, so in this case putting weapons in the hands of the school staff was not a solution.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Given the popular support the proposals have, throw it out there and force the Congress to vote on it. If Republicans want to obstruct yet another law with widespread appeal to the voters, let 'em. That'll be there problem come next election, because if obstructionism was popular the GOP wouldn't have lost 2 Senate seats and 8 House seats in the last election.

you have a remarkable talent for ignoring the obvious when it conflicts with your preferred narrative. News Flash: Many of the votes against Oblamer's proposals will be from D-MT, D-AR, D-WV, D-MO, D-LA, and so on.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Is the over abundance of fatherless households a greater threat to society than dangerous guns?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

Is the over abundance of fatherless households a greater threat to society than dangerous guns?

Sure. But, both ships have already sailed.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: The 2nd Term - Round 1 - Diving for Dollars

In the new town case, even a trained officer would have trouble taking down the shooter as they had the kevlar vest on, so the areas of the body that were vulnerable were quite small, any joe doaks could not have done the job, so in this case putting weapons in the hands of the school staff was not a solution.

Chamber armour piercing rounds. Oh, right, the dumbass in chief wants to outlaw those, so the people who responsibly carry have less of a chance of taking down a shooter with body armour.