The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

[joecct]

I hope you're a vegetarian, because you'll never guess how that sausage on your plate got made.

Just because something causes a visceral reaction does not make it illegal or even immoral.

Soylent Green is not offered at my grocers.

 

[unofan]

Soylent Green is not offered at my grocers.

Here's the point.





Whoosh






Here's you.

 

[joecct]

Here's the point.





Whoosh






Here's you.

No, I got it. But a pig is different than what was, until a short period of time ago, a human being. You'll never understand my position and I will never accept yours.

 

[unofan]

No, I got it. But a pig is different than what was, until a short period of time ago, a human being. You'll never understand my position and I will never accept yours.

I understand yours just fine. I was raised Catholic and have heard more than my fair share of lectures from the pulpit on the subject of abortion.

I also understood abortions are grisly affairs even before the latest poutrage over the recent videos showed up. I just am not swayed by it considering much of modern life involves grisly things.

These videos are the equivalent of those hidden camera videos taken on farms or at meat packing plants by animal rights groups. They never show anything actually illegal, they are merely designed to shock. Well, sorry, but it's not working any more than calling birth control "abortifacents" will somehow sway me that it shouldn't be widely available.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

BTW, I appreciate you actually talking about this rather than doing your normal "I'm just asking questions" routine. I mean that with all sincerity.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

BTW, I appreciate you actually talking about this rather than doing your normal "I'm just asking questions" routine. I mean that with all sincerity.

Doesn't a wise man have more questions than answers?

 

[LynahFan]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

These videos are the equivalent of those hidden camera videos taken on farms or at meat packing plants by animal rights groups. They never show anything actually illegal, they are merely designed to shock. Well, sorry, but it's not working any more than calling birth control "abortifacents" will somehow sway me that it shouldn't be widely available.

Completely agree. When you are on the job 8 hours per day, 5 days per week and deal with the same issues day in and day out, you get used to the backdrop, regardless of how serious the subject matter. My coworkers and I joke about airplane crashes. Lawyers joke about clients going to jail. Doctors joke about cancer. That's just what we humans do when we become accustomed to an environment and it feels "comfortable." That in no way means that we think those things truly are laughing matters, or that we're cavalier about actually designing airplanes or defending clients or treating cancer - but boy howdy would some peoples' panties probably get bunched if there were hidden cameras recording some of that daily behind-the-scenes banter.

 

[Rover]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

As terrible as this Congress is, its most rad Member almost makes up for it.



God bless you, Liz. Keep killing the Morlocks.

That's awesome.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Completely agree. When you are on the job 8 hours per day, 5 days per week and deal with the same issues day in and day out, you get used to the backdrop, regardless of how serious the subject matter. My coworkers and I joke about airplane crashes. Lawyers joke about clients going to jail. Doctors joke about cancer. That's just what we humans do when we become accustomed to an environment and it feels "comfortable." That in no way means that we think those things truly are laughing matters, or that we're cavalier about actually designing airplanes or defending clients or treating cancer - but boy howdy would some peoples' panties probably get bunched if there were hidden cameras recording some of that daily behind-the-scenes banter.

This.

It is a very human thing to try and cope with humor. I have sat in on many tumor boards (or for those of you with TV, "our hospital takes a multidisciplinary approach to your cancer care.") and people involved tend to have a dark sense of humor. It is tough work to see people die in front of you daily. Bailing out a sinking ship is demanding and I do not fault when people cope that way because there is really no real harm. Patients are still treated with respect and compassion but sometimes you have to just laugh when your patient with a glioblastoma had a dissociative fugue.

With abortion, the graphic descriptions are only a distraction. It is not an accurate description and clouds the whole discussion. Describing every lumbar puncture I do (This is Spinal Tap) as jamming a large bore needle, often multiple times, deep into your lower back until I break through your spinal ligaments and access your spinal fluid, hopefully not hemorrhaging too much blood, not striking your vertebrae and snapping the needle, and not striking your spinal cord which could cause paralysis would not be a helpful way to explain things. One can make any medical procedure sound absolutely horrific....

 

[joecct]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

This.

It is a very human thing to try and cope with humor. I have sat in on many tumor boards (or for those of you with TV, "our hospital takes a multidisciplinary approach to your cancer care.") and people involved tend to have a dark sense of humor. It is tough work to see people die in front of you daily. Bailing out a sinking ship is demanding and I do not fault when people cope that way because there is really no real harm. Patients are still treated with respect and compassion but sometimes you have to just laugh when your patient with a glioblastoma had a dissociative fugue.

With abortion, the graphic descriptions are only a distraction. It is not an accurate description and clouds the whole discussion. Describing every lumbar puncture I do (This is Spinal Tap) as jamming a large bore needle, often multiple times, deep into your lower back until I break through your spinal ligaments and access your spinal fluid, hopefully not hemorrhaging too much blood, not striking your vertebrae and snapping the needle, and not striking your spinal cord which could cause paralysis would not be a helpful way to explain things. One can make any medical procedure sound absolutely horrific....

I can understand dark humor - when I worked, I used it a lot of times to defuse tense situations. But I wonder what a morgue is like? However, this was an innocent human being just a few minutes/hours ago that just had its life terminated without ever having a chance at taking a full breath or nursing at its mother's breast.

I think the pro aborts are making excuses to excuse a horrific practice. But, that's my take - they will have an opposite view. The two views are not reconcilable and I doubt they ever will be.

I don't think this country has last seen a division like this since slavery.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

I don't think this country has last seen a division like this since slavery.

Slavery's a bad example because that was all or nothing, and the "nothing" option on abortion only polls at 19%.

This seems to follow the typical social splits on issues of sexuality. It's a significant split, but it's not going to start any civil wars.

I think the only thing that could come to the level of slavery would be repeal of the second amendment or removal of the tax exempt status for churches, neither of which will happen in the next fifty years.

 

[GrinCDXX]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

I can understand dark humor - when I worked, I used it a lot of times to defuse tense situations. But I wonder what a morgue is like? However, this was an innocent human being just a few minutes/hours ago that just had its life terminated without ever having a chance at taking a full breath or nursing at its mother's breast.

I think the pro aborts are making excuses to excuse a horrific practice. But, that's my take - they will have an opposite view. The two views are not reconcilable and I doubt they ever will be.

I don't think this country has last seen a division like this since slavery.

I still have yet to meet a "pro-abortionist"...I'm starting to think they don't exist at all.

 

[Slap Shot]

I still have yet to meet a "pro-abortionist"...I'm starting to think they don't exist at all.

What's even more maddening is that they'll fight tooth and nail insisting every pregnancy is brought to term only to tell the newborn, "you're on your own now good luck".

 

[joecct]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Slavery's a bad example because that was all or nothing, and the "nothing" option on abortion only polls at 19%.

This seems to follow the typical social splits on issues of sexuality. It's a significant split, but it's not going to start any civil wars.

I think the only thing that could come to the level of slavery would be repeal of the second amendment or removal of the tax exempt status for churches, neither of which will happen in the next fifty years.

Kep

Not sure about that one. A lot of people were against the expansion of slavery to the new territories / states (Bleeding Kansas & the various compromises), but were tolerant of it where it was. Those firebrand abolitionists in the Northeast are probably analogous to the current 19%. Heck, even Lincoln was not a firebrand abolitionist when he was running for the Senate.

It took a while, but the Civil War/War for Southern Independence changed the views for most of the nation.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

But I wonder what a morgue is like?

From the few days I have spent in the medical examiners office...they are pretty weird. I sincerely advise to not get an autopsy on a loved one unless you have a pretty good reason.

However, this was an innocent human being just a few minutes/hours ago that just had its life terminated without ever having a chance at taking a full breath or nursing at its mother's breast.

The same could be said about a significant number of normal periods. I just question the utility of using graphic visuals.

I think the pro aborts are making excuses to excuse a horrific practice. But, that's my take - they will have an opposite view. The two views are not reconcilable and I doubt they ever will be.

I think many are far detached from who the providers actually are. I have met >75% of the doctors that provide in Wisconsin and I can say they all want to see zero abortions. They are among the most compassionate physicians I have met. They have seen their colleagues terrorized, attacked, murdered, etc for providing a legal medical procedure. But they are also the ones taking the effort to improve women's health to reduce the number of abortions. I can say I do not see this kind of evidence based effort from the "opposition."

Anyone can describe a late term abortion and make it sound "horrific." But I could do the same for the mother who is bleeding to death in front of your eyes because she can no longer tolerate her pregnancy. Or one who has ecclampsia and has to be put into a medically induced coma to save her life because status epilepticus is causing hyperthermia and rhabdomyolysis. Only one cure, delivery (regardless of the gestation time).

I would just caution describing a "horrific practice" when you have next to no information on a situation that rightfully takes place in the privacy of a doctor patient relationship.

 

[LynahFan]

Kep

Not sure about that one. A lot of people were against the expansion of slavery to the new territories / states (Bleeding Kansas & the various compromises), but were tolerant of it where it was. Those firebrand abolitionists in the Northeast are probably analogous to the current 19%. Heck, even Lincoln was not a firebrand abolitionist when he was running for the Senate.

It took a while, but the Civil War/War for Southern Independence changed the views for most of the nation.

Where are you going with this analogy? Do you think there will be events, forces, or movements that will change most people's views to pro-life? Cause I don't see that at all.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

From the few days I have spent in the medical examiners office...they are pretty weird. I sincerely advise to not get an autopsy on a loved one unless you have a pretty good reason.



The same could be said about a significant number of normal periods. I just question the utility of using graphic visuals.



I think many are far detached from who the providers actually are. I have met >75% of the doctors that provide in Wisconsin and I can say they all want to see zero abortions. They are among the most compassionate physicians I have met. They have seen their colleagues terrorized, attacked, murdered, etc for providing a legal medical procedure. But they are also the ones taking the effort to improve women's health to reduce the number of abortions. I can say I do not see this kind of evidence based effort from the "opposition."

Anyone can describe a late term abortion and make it sound "horrific." But I could do the same for the mother who is bleeding to death in front of your eyes because she can no longer tolerate her pregnancy. Or one who has ecclampsia and has to be put into a medically induced coma to save her life because status epilepticus is causing hyperthermia and rhabdomyolysis. Only one cure, delivery (regardless of the gestation time).

I would just caution describing a "horrific practice" when you have next to no information on a situation that rightfully takes place in the privacy of a doctor patient relationship.

Hate to ask, but could you translate the medical terms to stuff this poor retired accountant could understand? Thanks.

And, like I said earlier, East is East and West is West, and never the two shall meet.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

A lot of people were against the expansion of slavery to the new territories / states (Bleeding Kansas & the various compromises), but were tolerant of it where it was.

That's a great point. I stand corrected.

 

[joecct]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

Where are you going with this analogy? Do you think there will be events, forces, or movements that will change most people's views to pro-life? Cause I don't see that at all.

I don't see an armed insurrection, either. Equally, I don't see a reconciliation.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 114th Congress: How Low Can They Go?

I don't see an armed insurrection, either. Equally, I don't see a reconciliation.

The reconciliation will happen when medicine and pharmacology make abortion OBE. 100% effective male contraception and morning after pills will make abortion class-linked, and once it's only the poors it'll be easy to re-criminalize it.