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The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

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Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

MinnFan said:
Manufacturing output has remained constant as a percent of GDP. Its the jobs in manufacturing that have left. It winds up being cheaper to use robots here or go somewhere else with less stringent business laws.

Output Graph
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Close, but no cigar. You want to look at Manufacturing value added, share of GDP. Available from the World Bank's online 'databank' (among other places, but the WB's site is ace).

1970: 27%
2008: 13%

eta: http://data.worldbank.org/
 
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Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Corporations already aren't paying any taxes, so it really doesn't matter what we set the rate at, they'll still pay 0%.
 
Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

MinnFan said:
yes, everyone who works pay taxes (except those that the "making work pay" credit covers their FICA), but not eveyone pays income taxes.

And they are held seperately
FICA Tax
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They're all the same budget as far as Ryan and Obama is concerned. And they're taxes the same as any other. So, I fail to see why you continually say people don't pay taxes when they do. Ryan's budget is ultra fraudulent then because his budget spends ninety percent of his cutting time destroying Medicare and that's a different budget according to you.
 
Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

unofan said:
Yeah, but a family earning 30,000/year probably spends 95% of that, and saves 5% if they're lucky. So any sales tax affects 95% of their income, or 28,500. For ease of numbers, assume a 20% sales tax. They're paying 5700 in sales taxes, or an effective rate of 19%.
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I would say a most of their income goes to mortgage/rent, transportation (gas, auto insurance, maintenance, car payment if it isn't paid off), and food. Right now most of this stuff isn't subject to sales tax (at least in my state). Would a national sales tax be broader?
 
Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

BassAle said:
I would say a most of their income goes to mortgage/rent, transportation (gas, auto insurance, maintenance, car payment if it isn't paid off), and food. Right now most of this stuff isn't subject to sales tax (at least in my state). Would a national sales tax be broader?
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No. As I understand the Fair Tax, it is only imposed when a good or service is first purchased. Thus, if you buy a used car or a used house, you would not pay the FT.

But if you pay me for my advice, you would. :D
 
Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

BassAle said:
I would say a most of their income goes to mortgage/rent, transportation (gas, auto insurance, maintenance, car payment if it isn't paid off), and food. Right now most of this stuff isn't subject to sales tax (at least in my state). Would a national sales tax be broader?
Click to expand...

Unless you want something like 100% tax on everything else, it'd have to be broader. Every limitation limits how much revenue is colelcted. And since this is meant to replace the income tax, the rate will be eye popping as is.
 
Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

unofan said:
Unless you want something like 100% tax on everything else, it'd have to be broader. Every limitation limits how much revenue is colelcted. And since this is meant to replace the income tax, the rate will be eye popping as is.
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You betcha. I'm hearing 25%. On top of that add the state and you could be looking at mid 30's no problem. And if the states do the same thing - maybe 40% or more! :eek:, but if I'm not buying new, I'm not paying.
 
Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

joecct said:
You betcha. I'm hearing 25%. On top of that add the state and you could be looking at mid 30's no problem. And if the states do the same thing - maybe 40% or more! :eek:, but if I'm not buying new, I'm not paying.
Click to expand...

gee, that won't suppress retail spending and render the revenue estimates invalid after one month
 
Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

joecct said:
You betcha. I'm hearing 25%.
Click to expand...

And that's with the fudge factor of saying it's an "inclusive" tax - so if a product costs a $1.00, $.25 cents of that is tax. 25/100=25%
Traditionally, though, that's a 33% tax, not a 25% one. It's a $.75 product with a $.25 sales tax added on. 25/75=33%
 
Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

unofan said:
So you'd be all for eliminating the corporate tax but treating any resulting capital gains/dividends as ordinary income?
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They should be treated as ordinary income anyway. IIRC, this was one of the recommendations of the deficit commission.
 
Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Even if we got to a budget "surplus". there is a fundamental problem with the legislature being influenced by special interest and spending habits. Just look at our state with $3billion "surplus" and how both republican/democrats are spending it "biggest capital state budget in history". Just 2-3 years ago we were looking at $4billion deficit if oil had stayed below $50 or $70.

So our current Republican Gov Parnell (Prior job was at oil company) wants to cut oil taxes that Gov Sarah Palin implemented. And he wants to tap the emergency/saving funds to make up $2billion/yr loss from the tax reduction (repeal).

http://www.adn.com/2011/04/14/1810326/budget-fight-may-send-legislature.html
House Speaker Mike Chenault declared Thursday that the Senate is trying to bully House members into passing "one of the largest capital budgets in history" in just hours without public review.
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The budget is already more than Gov. Sean Parnell has said he'd accept. Parnell has also threatened to veto projects because the Senate refuses to pass his bill slashing taxes on the oil companies.
Click to expand...
 
Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Today's friendly advice: never steal anything small.

In 1995, for instance, bank regulators referred 1,837 cases to the U.S. Department of Justice. In 2006, just 75 cases were referred. And, since then, including the worst years of the crisis, an average of only 72 cases a year have been referred for criminal prosecution.

While the cats slumber, the rats collect their bonuses.
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Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

bronconick said:
LOL. That also has Sweden as the 2nd lowest burden on the rich.

Socialism FTW!

In other words, your link is a load of crap.
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It doesn't speak to to the top rate. It shows the difference between the bottom and the top rates (how progressive the structure is). Sweeden is 2nd lowest because their middle class pays a bigger share of the taxes.

But good job refuting it with your witty response.:rolleyes:
 
Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

bronconick said:
LOL. That also has Sweden as the 2nd lowest burden on the rich.

Socialism FTW!

In other words, your link is a load of crap.
Click to expand...

Eh. It's not a load of crap. It's just another cherry-picking blog. The headline is flatly wrong, as the OECD report says no such thing.

The one table that the blog reproduces (from a 300+ page report) shows that the United States does have one of the most progressive household taxes (after only Ireland).

But a tax system is also defined by transfers, which the Tax Foundation conveniently, and predictably, ignores. Here, as you would imagine, the U.S. is not first. :)

The OECD avg net benefit of transfers - taxes for the lowest income quintile is more than double what it is in the U.S.

That chapter of the report concludes that different countries seek redistribution through different means, and that transfers are both more effective and efficient than taxes as a means of doing so.

Not my work. I'm not employed by the OECD. Just got interested in MinnFan's link and decided to look for the real story.
 
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