The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Whatever passes will be closer to Ryan than Obama. It's been proven over and over again that the war is over and the Republicans won. David Gregory did a great job trying to expose Ryan. Hell, even Chris Wallace last week tried but he's getting an absolute skate. 5 minutes after Obama announces his plan Bachmann will hit the steps and it will be all over.

In fairness, we have no idea what an Obama plan will be, as he's never put one out there to date. I seriously hope he brings some good and serious ideas to the table. I'm not optimistic, but if he does, I'll give him major kudos.

 

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

When you look to see if something is rotten, it makes sense to start by looking at its roots. Two words: Margaret Sanger

Just before you start down that road, perhaps you should stop and think for a minute about how many "good" things have their roots with groups or people who did horrible things. Or how very few things are black and white.

So please, give specifics on why PP should not receive funding. What about their operations that are operated by gov't funds should be cause for them to be defunded?

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

In fairness, we have no idea what an Obama plan will be, as he's never put one out there to date. I seriously hope he brings some good and serious ideas to the table. I'm not optimistic, but if he does, I'll give him major kudos.

We'll see what he's got. If I were a betting man I would wager it will be smoke and mirrors, as there has been exactly one serious budget (1996) out of the oval office since the 70's.

He has to drop the hammer on both Reaganomics and the Great Society and have each annihilate the other as anti-particles. It's the only way we get fiscal and monetary policy under control.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Just before you start down that road, perhaps you should stop and think for a minute about how many "good" things have their roots with groups or people who did horrible things. Or how very few things are black and white.

So please, give specifics on why PP should not receive funding. What about their operations that are operated by gov't funds should be cause for them to be defunded?

I can understand you wanting to avoid talking about PP's very checkered history by throwing out some relativistic language. Nice duck.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

We'll see what he's got. If I were a betting man I would wager it will be smoke and mirrors, as there has been exactly one serious budget (1996) out of the oval office since the 70's.

He has to drop the hammer on both Reaganomics and the Great Society and have each annihilate the other as anti-particles. It's the only way we get fiscal and monetary policy under control.

I agree, for the most part, other than the '96 thing. But, I don't think most of the American populace is ready to grasp the reality of such a massive tradeoff.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

With all the extra money sloshing around thanks to the stupid actions of the Fed, it's hard to imagine speculative asset prices (such as stocks) dropping appreciably anytime in the short term. Further complicating the impact on the market is the enforcement of any law Congress passes - what happens at the regulatory stage is every bit as important as passing the legislation in the first place (see: 'financial reform'). I'd hazard a guess that with the many exceptions and loopholes that have likely been bought and paid for by various lobbying efforts, there will be minimal impact on most companies' bottom line (and the same can likely be said about the financial reform bill's impact on investment banks).

While that is all true, the fact was it was never going to happen anyways because HCR was a boon for the health care companies. The government just handed them millions of customers in 2014 without them needing to do anything. If United Health Groups or Medica could have written a law, minus the pre-existing conditions clause this would have been it!

It was then that I realized that Patman has to be a bit. He is a smart guy, he is very well read there is no way he could have honestly believed what he was saying.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Enzo Ferrari was an asshole. Consider yourself completely rebutted.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I agree, for the most part, other than the '96 thing. But, I don't think most of the American populace is ready to grasp the reality of such a massive tradeoff.

If both sides scream it's the end of the world, we'll know he did good. Seriously if Scooby tells us the death toll of poor people will be in the millions AND our resident Milton Friedmans scream about "confiscatory taxation" AND the Colonel Blimps bray that we're "betraying the troops" and "surrendering to the turrists" (while nervously checking the Northrop-Grumman shareprice) then we're on to something good. The problem over the last 40 years has been only one side has been screaming at a time or, even worse, they've all been happily bankrupting us.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

If both sides scream it's the end of the world, we'll know he did good.

Sadly, in the end, the awful political nonsense that goes on in Washington is reflective of the populace that sends them to Washington. If the American public ever really cared about balancing the budget, the politicians would care a whole lot more than they do. And the politicians understand this.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

We'll see what he's got. If I were a betting man I would wager it will be smoke and mirrors, as there has been exactly one serious budget (1996) out of the oval office since the 70's.

He has to drop the hammer on both Reaganomics and the Great Society and have each annihilate the other as anti-particles. It's the only way we get fiscal and monetary policy under control.

Obama doesnt have the balls to do anything serious. If this was the Obama that beat Hillary I would be confident, but this Obama surrenders more than France and has been inflicted with the Democrat Disease. (i.e. have no idea how to fight or effectively govern)

He should be giddy everyday that the GOP have zero candidates that are really electable or he would be ousted pretty handily.

 

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Sadly, in the end, the awful political nonsense that goes on in Washington is reflective of the populace that sends them to Washington. If the American public ever really cared about balancing the budget, the politicians would care a whole lot more than they do. And the politicians understand this.

Yup...it is like George Carlin said:

"Now, there's one thing you might have noticed I don't complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don't fall out of the sky. They don't pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It's what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain't going to do any good; you're just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it's not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here... like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There's a nice campaign slogan for somebody: 'The Public Sucks. ***** Hope.'"

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Sadly, in the end, the awful political nonsense that goes on in Washington is reflective of the populace that sends them to Washington. If the American public ever really cared about balancing the budget, the politicians would care a whole lot more than they do. And the politicians understand this.

Of couse, whenever we yell at our Congress we're yelling at ourselves. Our politicians are irresponsible because we are. But I believe we are irresponsible in large part because we're just too big -- there's no way to make common cause and share common sacrifice with 300 million other people, most of whom don't look or think like us -- unless we think there's an actual gun pointed at us. So we're left thinking of the whole thing as a giant game where we have to grab ours because everybody else is grabbing theirs. And even in those rare cases where we might do the right thing, the elephant in the American room, large corporate capitalism, means our reps will be bribed into keeping the trough open anyway.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Obama doesnt have the balls to do anything serious. If this was the Obama that beat Hillary I would be confident, but this Obama surrenders more than France.

This.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Yup...it is like George Carlin said:

Yikes, Handy is agreeing with me now. It's a certain sign of the Apocalypse!

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Obama doesnt have the balls to do anything serious.

HCR was pretty ballsy. I don't buy the "he's not brave enough" thing. Every politician's bravery is a calculation of what he thinks he can get away with. Reagan was considered a vacillating, weak one-termer until John Hinkley handed him his hall pass.

We really need the idea that there are leaders who put themselves out in front and lead, but it's almost always a retconned narrative used to dress up exploitation of some event that galvanizes the public and opens up a hole to run through.

Now, of course, there are politicians who create their own opportunities. Not everyone would have turned 9/11 into an excuse to lower the top marginal rate. That took a certain amount of, not stones exactly, but gall.

 

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Most times when we cut the deficit (even a little), it's good. Any time social conservatives lose, it's good.

Yeah, the deal was better than expected, frankly. I know the big fight was over planned parenthood, but I'm happier that the EPA riders got knocked out, too.

If it means Boehner can control both the tea party and the religious right...maybe we'll make some actual progress on the real budget, then.

Reform SSI and medicare - raise the retirement age and eliminate the wage cap on contributions (without increasing the benefit limit).

Reduce the military budget by at least 10% as a starting point - or if going for a long term, phased plan, cut it by 20% over 5-10 years.

No new tax cuts.

 

[geezer]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Reagan was considered a vacillating, weak one-termer until John Hinkley handed him his hall pass.

I've never heard this, so I looked it up. Reagan carried 44 states in 1980 (489 electoral votes; the most lopsided landslide for any non-incumbent), took office, and was shot 69 days later. So either it was the shortest presidential "honeymoon" in history (even compared to Obama) that led to this characterization of his popularity, or the people you're describing consisted of Jimmy Carter and a couple of people in Minnesota.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Yeah, the deal was better than expected, frankly. I know the big fight was over planned parenthood, but I'm happier that the EPA riders got knocked out, too.

If it means Boehner can control both the tea party and the religious right...maybe we'll make some actual progress on the real budget, then.

Reform SSI and medicare - raise the retirement age and eliminate the wage cap on contributions (without increasing the benefit limit).

Reduce the military budget by at least 10% as a starting point - or if going for a long term, phased plan, cut it by 20% over 5-10 years.

No new tax cuts.

All of this is a good start. Obviously different people will want different cuts, but if we can get all this as a core it's at least a move in the right direction.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Reduce the military budget by at least 10% as a starting point - or if going for a long term, phased plan, cut it by 20% over 5-10 years.

No new tax cuts.

Can't cut the military budget while you're at war.

Can't boost the failing economy without more tax cuts.

Next.

 

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I've never heard this, so I looked it up. Reagan carried 44 states in 1980 (489 electoral votes; the most lopsided landslide for any non-incumbent), took office, and was shot 69 days later. So either it was the shortest presidential "honeymoon" in history (even compared to Obama) that led to this characterization of his popularity, or the people you're describing consisted of Jimmy Carter and a couple of people in Minnesota.

OK, I'll buy that and I retract.

One thing about the initial election that people forget, however. Reagan took 50.7% popular vote. He didn't have the sort of runaway popularity he achieved later in his term. IIRC (and I may not) he skyrocketed after the shooting and never came back down.